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Petition on upgrade NullSec stations to compete HighSec stations
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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-12-18 16:03:14 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I think this should be done.

In fact, considering the risks, instead of nerfing high sec production, boost nullsec stations.

As usual, the cliche is "give people an incentive to leave high sec", so if null stations could really kick the butt in production, well, there you go.


I don't think it would break the game and cause us all to spontaneously bleed out our buttholes and drop dead on the floor if nullsec stations got a buff.



The benefits and cost of high sec stations make it impossible to buff null stations to be better than them.

You can't surpass high sec stations in any significant way without them getting nerfed.

At the same time it doens't have to be a nerf to "high sec", only a specific playsytle in high sec.

The NPC corp guy that works out of NPC stations. You can only buff null to that capability given how high sec stations are currently structured. "On par" isn't an incentive to put your assets in a station you can lose access too.

They have to nerf the stations in high sec so that you would at least need to be in a player corp that has an office in that station, in order for a null station to be made better than them.


Even if it was free to build in a null station, and you had perfect refines, they still wouldn't be "better" than high stations. Production costs are so low that the impact on cost is barely noticed, when it's even considered.

You're still risking your assets with no kind of significant gain, if you only buff null stations.
Tokclik
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-12-18 17:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tokclik
Natsett Amuinn wrote:




Everyone else should be rewarded though, and they currently are not.
As long as High sec NPC stations provide the most efficient means of conducting business, there is no way to "fiix" anything. NPC stations, utilized by players in NPC corps, should be the least effiecient and rewarding way of dong things; not the best.


High sec NPC stations are effectively perfect right now. THAT can not be compensate for with a buff anywhere. You can't get better than 100% refining. No amount of buffing will compensate; it's impossible to buff something to be better than perfect.

Anywhere that something gives perfect return, that is not a player run structure, or located in a place where you need to assume more risk and effort, needs to be made not perfect so that those other areas can be buffed up to a point that they are BETTER than what was prviously perfect.

NPC corps working in NPC stations should be the worst, not the best. You should join player run corps and use player run stations to get the best.


^This^

I wish I could plus rep you more.
Lovely Dumplings
My Little Pony Appreciation Corporation
#23 - 2012-12-18 20:26:37 UTC
A huge problem with a highsec nerf re: industrials, is the combination of risk aversion and bad judge of time value.

You could cut highsec stations to 25% ability of player owned, and people will still stay in NPC corps, because everyone gets the "Null/low is DANGEROUS" indoctrination from day one. I mean, I saw, just yesterday, an ISD member tell a newb in Rookie Help "Don't go to lowsec unless you want to lose your stuff". Once you start getting that risk fear into someone's head, it's near impossible to remove.

Add in the failure of most to correctly value time spent, and it becomes a no-brainer. Stay in highsec, wait longer, and not loseyourstuff, or go to null, and get shiptoasted. The actual chances really don't matter, just the perception.

www.minerbumping.com
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-12-18 20:41:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I think this should be done.

In fact, considering the risks, instead of nerfing high sec production, boost nullsec stations.

As usual, the cliche is "give people an incentive to leave high sec", so if null stations could really kick the butt in production, well, there you go.


I don't think it would break the game and cause us all to spontaneously bleed out our buttholes and drop dead on the floor if nullsec stations got a buff.



The benefits and cost of high sec stations make it impossible to buff null stations to be better than them.

You can't surpass high sec stations in any significant way without them getting nerfed.

At the same time it doens't have to be a nerf to "high sec", only a specific playsytle in high sec.

The NPC corp guy that works out of NPC stations. You can only buff null to that capability given how high sec stations are currently structured. "On par" isn't an incentive to put your assets in a station you can lose access too.

They have to nerf the stations in high sec so that you would at least need to be in a player corp that has an office in that station, in order for a null station to be made better than them.


Even if it was free to build in a null station, and you had perfect refines, they still wouldn't be "better" than high stations. Production costs are so low that the impact on cost is barely noticed, when it's even considered.

You're still risking your assets with no kind of significant gain, if you only buff null stations.

This kills industrial starter missions and industrial activity beyond mining for new players not in a corp and uncommitted potentials wondering what the industrial side of the game has to offer. While GSF may take it's own under it's wing the moment they get into the game the majority of the population doesn't seem to have that advantage and as such will spend at least SOME time in an NPC corp with an important section of the game accessible to them. I don't think this is appropriate.

Even if what you suggest is implemented, we just get more 1 man corps with characters that take comparatively fewer risks than null even with the restrictions you propose. They still get all the benefits they have now but are just a bit less mobile and even wardec vulnerability can be easily overcome with at worst an out of corp freighter alt.

I think a better solution would be to raise NPC slot usage costs and/or lower maximum efficiencies directly so that POS/Outpost industry could be made better in a reasonable fashion without entrenching some people into taking less risk and excluding others completely.
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