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Thought process for remaping?

Author
Kelvan Hemanseh
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#1 - 2011-10-07 00:13:11 UTC
Hi guys, I've read a lot about remaping in order to shorten skill training but most of it is just do X to get Y. There really isn't much of a thought process described so that new players can learn how/what to remap for.

My own predicament is that I want to be a really awesome Gallente ship pilot, specifically their drone boats, Dominix/Vexor and Ishtar but I have no idea how to plan out my skills efficiently and remap for them. I have just been picking random affordable skills that make life a bit easier and training them.

Any help would be much appreciated.


Nilaya Xa'nath
Haerifraon Tvaettas
#2 - 2011-10-07 09:31:27 UTC
Hello,

One answer that seems to crop up regarding these matters is "Use Eve Mon"... But seriously, try it out. It allows you to queue skills, and you can calculate the optimal remap points for the selected plan. But if you just wish to remap for a specific skillset, looking at the skill description should illuminate things, max out the primary attribute (27) and put the remaining in the secondary attribute (21). Using implants to further boost them, you can hit up to 2700 SP/ hour (even more with boosters).

Hope this was of help...

- N

P.S.
There are other skill planning apps than just Eve Mon, but I have no personal experience using them so I will not bring them up.

"Fast knitting!" - Spock

Caelus Heliodromus
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-07 13:46:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Caelus Heliodromus
I think the general consensus is that newer players have very broad skill needs that require all that attributes (except, perhaps, Charisma), and that focusing on a specific attribute remap (per/wil or int/mem) too early can be counterproductive.

I've seen suggestions for a balanced remap posted elsewhere, I think they're roughly a +3 int/+3 per/+2 mem/+2 wil. That will allow you to train tanking, cap and other support skills (int/mem), ship and gun skills (per/wil) decently fast. Drones are sort of the odd category out with mem/per requirements, but would train only marginally slower than the other categories under this remap. It is also worth noting that Drones train at about the same speed under a per/wil or an int/mem remap.

Once you have a decent skill base you can switch to an attribute remap that allows you to more efficiently focus on either support skills or ship/weapon skills.

edit: As the previous poster mentioned, however, EveMon will tell you what is going to be most efficient for YOUR plan. So, I'd plug in a set of core skills (i'm sure there are numerous posts elsewhere, but I suggest fitting skills, cap skills, some targeting skills, tanking skills and basic weapon + drone skills), set your first remap to whatever EveMon recommends. After a couple months you'll have a better idea of whether a per/wil or an int/mem remap makes sense next.
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
#4 - 2011-10-07 23:12:26 UTC
A few main points:
* The number of skillpoints per minute you receive while training is: Primary Attribute + (Secondary Attribute/2)

* Newer characters will need a wide variety of skills, using all different attributes.

* Remapping makes some skills faster to train, while making other skills slower to train.

* For any given skill, training from level 0 to level 4 takes about 20% of the time for about 80% of the benefit. Training from level 4 to level 5 takes 80% of the time for 20% of the benefit. So having remapped attributes is most noticable when training a number of skills to level 5.

* When you use your last remap, a one-year timer starts. You may not remap again for a full year.

* If you make a mistake on that last remap, you can hamstring your character for a full year, making life much more difficult on yourself.

* There are two valid ways to use remaps. Younger characters who need a variety of skills and people who often change their skill training direction should use a balanced attribute set that is good for just about everything. If you know you aren't going to use Charisma, then take all the points out of that attribute and distribute them to Perception and Intelligence.

* The second way is the all-or-nothing remap. Take all mappable points out of every attribute, put them all back into one primary attribute and the remainder into the secondary attribute. This only makes sense for older characters who can spend an entire year training skills in a single category, or alts which are made for a specific known purpose. This remapping strategy is slightly more efficient than the first, but it completely lacks flexibility. It will be painful if you are remapped this way but suddenly need to learn something out-of-spec.


Drone skills are Memory primary, Perception secondary.
Electronics, Engineering, Mechanic, and Science skills are Intelligence / Memory
Industry skills are Memory / Intelligence
Gunnery, Missiles, and Spaceship Command skills are mostly Perception / Willpower
Tech II ship skills within Spaceship Command are Willpower / Perception
Navigation skills are Intelligence / Perception
Corporation Management skills are Memory / Charisma
Social skills are Charisma / Intelligence
Leadership skills are Charisma / Willpower
Trade skills are Charisma / Memory
Some Subsystem skills are Intelligence / Memory. Others are Perception / Willpower
Some Planetary Management skills are Intelligence / Memory. Others are Charisma / Intelligence

There are a few exceptions to the above. Check out Evemon for details.


All of the above leads me to my conclusions:
1. For a young player, don't remap until you know what you are doing.
2. Plan your remaps in Evemon. Decide what skills you will want and determine which skills will train faster before vs after remapping. Move those skills to the top of the list and remap afterwards.
3. Understand your own personality and situation. Will you need all your attributes for the next year, or can you do without a few of them to make a set of skills train faster?


Practical application:
1. My main was a year and a half old when remaps were introduced. He was born with high intelligence but mediocre perception. When remaps were announced, he had pretty good support skills, but could only fly a limited number of ships. Missile skills were so-so. Gunnery skills were pretty much non-existant. I looked ahead and found a few more Int/Mem skills he wanted, such as Propulsion Jamming 5 and Graviton Physics 4 for HICtors. He trained Int/Mem skills for another couple months, then remapped fully into Perception/Willpower. Once remapped, he trained Gunnery and Missiles until he had every T2 weapon. He trained all four races frigates, cruisers, and battleships to 5. Destroyers, Battlecruisers, Recons, Logistics, Interdictors, Interceptors trained to 5. Pretty much everything else based on perception and subcapital is trained to at least 4. Drones actually train faster under Perception/Willpower than under Intelligence/Memory, so he is currently on a drone kick, getting T2 sentries and heavies. Soon he will remap to Intelligence/Memory. There he will finish up all the tanking and navigation skills he had left at 4 up to 5. After that he will start on the support skills for capital ships.

2. I wanted to make a combat alt. Before remapping, he trained medium turrets to 4, gunnery support skills to 3, frigates, cruisers, and battlecruisers to 4. He also trained up to T2 medium scout drones. This let him sit in a battlecruiser. Then he used his first remap to Intelligence/Memory. Here he trained tanking/capacitor/targetting/navigation/rigging skills for about 8 months, until he could fly that battlecruiser very well. He also learned the Int/Mem based subsystem skills. Then he switched to Perception/Willpower and trained T2 weapons, better drone and gunnery support skills, battleships, T2 frigates, T2 cruisers, the Per/Wil based subsystem skills, and T3 cruisers. I am not sure what the next remap will be, but am considering Charisma for Leadership.

3. I wanted to make an industry/invention alt. First she trained a few social skills she would later need. The first remap was to Perception/Willpower were she trained Frigates 5 and Industrials 5. (I really like covert ops frigates and blockade runners. She will get them later.) The second remap was to Intelligence and Memory where she is currently training all the industry and science skills.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-10-09 12:57:14 UTC
Here are a couple links that may help a bit - less specific to just remapping but it is covered.

Class syllabus on implants and remaps - explains the topic:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Messing_With_Your_Head

Audio of a lecture that presents the above syllabus:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/w/images/3/38/E-UNI_Messing_With_Your_Head.mp3

Again, it's a bit more general and recommends building a 1 year+ plan then using EVEMon to optimize your attributes for that plan.