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ISD posts don't matter?

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Cynthia Gallente
Kirom Stellar Industries
#1 - 2012-12-17 20:30:57 UTC
A quick look at any forum will tell you if a GM or if a CCP member has posted in a thread but, what about ISD?
Any particular reason they don't get one of those headers? ISD usually have very relevant things to say and are responsible for thread locks.
I'd like to see it highlighted if they post in a thread.
I appreciate any thoughts/comments/remarks about this.

Post with your lick™
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#2 - 2012-12-17 20:31:29 UTC
Cynthia Gallente wrote:
A quick look at any forum will tell you if a GM or if a CCP member has posted in a thread but, what about ISD?
Any particular reason they don't get one of those headers? ISD usually have very relevant things to say and are responsible for thread locks.
I'd like to see it highlighted if they post in a thread.
I appreciate any thoughts/comments/remarks about this.


If a thread has a padlock on it, ISD posted there.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#3 - 2012-12-17 20:37:30 UTC
Cynthia Gallente wrote:
A quick look at any forum will tell you if a GM or if a CCP member has posted in a thread but, what about ISD?
Any particular reason they don't get one of those headers? ISD usually have very relevant things to say and are responsible for thread locks.
I'd like to see it highlighted if they post in a thread.
I appreciate any thoughts/comments/remarks about this.

Don't they have mains?

Aren't they volunteers?

Let them post with their mains.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#4 - 2012-12-17 20:37:36 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Cynthia Gallente wrote:
A quick look at any forum will tell you if a GM or if a CCP member has posted in a thread but, what about ISD?
Any particular reason they don't get one of those headers? ISD usually have very relevant things to say and are responsible for thread locks.
I'd like to see it highlighted if they post in a thread.
I appreciate any thoughts/comments/remarks about this.


If a thread has a padlock on it, ISD posted there.


The rest of the time they are posting with an Alt. None of us will figure out or prove who is who but we would have to be idiots to think otherwise.
Cynthia Gallente
Kirom Stellar Industries
#5 - 2012-12-17 20:41:03 UTC
Ocih wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Cynthia Gallente wrote:
A quick look at any forum will tell you if a GM or if a CCP member has posted in a thread but, what about ISD?
Any particular reason they don't get one of those headers? ISD usually have very relevant things to say and are responsible for thread locks.
I'd like to see it highlighted if they post in a thread.
I appreciate any thoughts/comments/remarks about this.


If a thread has a padlock on it, ISD posted there.


The rest of the time they are posting with an Alt. None of us will figure out or prove who is who but we would have to be idiots to think otherwise.

There are many threads where an ISD posts without locking it . . .
and who cares about their alts?

Post with your lick™
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#6 - 2012-12-17 20:44:26 UTC
Cynthia Gallente wrote:
Ocih wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Cynthia Gallente wrote:
A quick look at any forum will tell you if a GM or if a CCP member has posted in a thread but, what about ISD?
Any particular reason they don't get one of those headers? ISD usually have very relevant things to say and are responsible for thread locks.
I'd like to see it highlighted if they post in a thread.
I appreciate any thoughts/comments/remarks about this.


If a thread has a padlock on it, ISD posted there.


The rest of the time they are posting with an Alt. None of us will figure out or prove who is who but we would have to be idiots to think otherwise.

There are many threads where an ISD posts without locking it . . .
and who cares about their alts?

Who cares about their ISD characters' opinions about anything besides moderation?

I think that's a more pressing question.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
ISD Cura Ursus
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#7 - 2012-12-17 20:46:54 UTC
Alts? Nah. This account is alt free.




Look ma! An ISD post in a thread with no lock! Shocked


Keep this about what the forums look like and it should stay that way. :)

ISD Cura Ursus

Lieutenant Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#8 - 2012-12-17 20:48:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
ISD Cura Ursus wrote:
Alts? Nah. This account is alt free.




Look ma! An ISD post in a thread with no lock! Shocked


Keep this about what the forums look like and it should stay that way. :)

Look ma! A sock puppet!

Post with your main, moderate with your alt.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#9 - 2012-12-17 20:50:14 UTC
We're damn near everywhere. The forum would be white if we got post tags. P
Darth Gustav wrote:

Don't they have mains?

Aren't they volunteers?

Let them post with their mains.

True and true, and we do post with our mains sometimes. However, there is a a big difference those two "personas". One is a player like any other, with opinions, agenda, and whatever else, while the other has a duty to neutrally serve Eve and the forum community -- whether that be via answering questions or via moderation.

Anyway, we don't get tags on threads because, all things considered, we are just players with fancy alts. We don't set rules, are not always right (unfortunately Oops), and have little 'official' power beyond moderation.

In other words, it's not that "ISD posts don't matter", but rather that we're not important enough to warrant putting a big flag over a thread as if there is a treasure trove in there.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#10 - 2012-12-17 20:51:17 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
We're damn near everywhere. The forum would be white if we got post tags. P
Darth Gustav wrote:

Don't they have mains?

Aren't they volunteers?

Let them post with their mains.

True and true, and we do post with our mains sometimes. However, there is a a big difference those two "personas". One is a player like any other, with opinions, agenda, and whatever else, while the other has a duty to neutrally serve Eve and the forum community -- whether that be via answering questions or via moderation.

Anyway, we don't get tags on threads because, all things considered, we are just players with fancy alts. We don't set rules, are not always right (unfortunately Oops), and have little 'official' power beyond moderation.

In other words, it's not that "ISD posts don't matter", but rather that we're not important enough to warrant putting a big flag over a thread as if there is a treasure trove in there.

This was my point, to be brutally honest, good sir.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#11 - 2012-12-17 20:54:28 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Who cares about their ISD characters' opinions about anything besides moderation?

"Opinions" do not factor into the ISD job. Whether or not I like the balance of something or other doesn't factor into how a thread about it is treated.
Darth Gustav wrote:
Post with your main, moderate with your alt.

Rest assured, there are plenty of rules in place about what threads we're allowed to post in, to avoid bias due to who our "mains" may be.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#12 - 2012-12-17 21:00:06 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Who cares about their ISD characters' opinions about anything besides moderation?

"Opinions" do not factor into the ISD job. Whether or not I like the balance of something or other doesn't factor into how a thread about it is treated.
Darth Gustav wrote:
Post with your main, moderate with your alt.

Rest assured, there are plenty of rules in place about what threads we're allowed to post in, to avoid bias due to who our "mains" may be.

So when we players see an ISD posting a controversial opinion with their ISD character on these forums do we have reasonable expectation that if we report said post it will be dealt with accordingly?

Because I've seen ISD trolling players before, and even called them out on it, in-context.

Thanks for the clarification. I'll be watching.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#13 - 2012-12-17 21:05:43 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
We're damn near everywhere. The forum would be white if we got post tags. P
Darth Gustav wrote:

Don't they have mains?

Aren't they volunteers?

Let them post with their mains.

True and true, and we do post with our mains sometimes. However, there is a a big difference those two "personas". One is a player like any other, with opinions, agenda, and whatever else, while the other has a duty to neutrally serve Eve and the forum community -- whether that be via answering questions or via moderation.

Anyway, we don't get tags on threads because, all things considered, we are just players with fancy alts. We don't set rules, are not always right (unfortunately Oops), and have little 'official' power beyond moderation.

In other words, it's not that "ISD posts don't matter", but rather that we're not important enough to warrant putting a big flag over a thread as if there is a treasure trove in there.


And there is the nut of the issue right there.
You said it yourself.

ISD members have their "own opinions, agenda, whatever else" while having a duty to neutrally serve Eve and the forum community.

Some of us, OK me, simply don't believe the ISD as a whole has the ability to remove natural human impulses and "serve neutrally".
Given the secrecy about who the ISD's are, and what in-game background they have, it is impossible for people like me to trust you will not censor/lock to further whatever agenda you just said have, just like any other player.

It was stated months ago critiquing the whole recruitment process: How can we be sure that the null sec zealots did not flood CCP with applications, and thereby subvert the entire moderation team? The recruitment process is completely opaque, and there can be no proof, which meshed perfectly with any organised propaganda team's goals, where the meta-game is just as important, maybe MORE important, than in-game mechanics.

Until the gaming background of every ISD member, every CCP dev, every CCP content designer, is made completely public, there can be no trust that any of these people are not working for an organised group with plans of their own for the game.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#14 - 2012-12-17 21:11:52 UTC
Your concerns are reasonable, and if you feel any ISD or CCP member is acting for their personal interests rather than those of Eve or the job they're supposed to be doing, feel free to petition it.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#15 - 2012-12-17 21:15:11 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
We're damn near everywhere. The forum would be white if we got post tags. P
Darth Gustav wrote:

Don't they have mains?

Aren't they volunteers?

Let them post with their mains.

True and true, and we do post with our mains sometimes. However, there is a a big difference those two "personas". One is a player like any other, with opinions, agenda, and whatever else, while the other has a duty to neutrally serve Eve and the forum community -- whether that be via answering questions or via moderation.

Anyway, we don't get tags on threads because, all things considered, we are just players with fancy alts. We don't set rules, are not always right (unfortunately Oops), and have little 'official' power beyond moderation.

In other words, it's not that "ISD posts don't matter", but rather that we're not important enough to warrant putting a big flag over a thread as if there is a treasure trove in there.


And to the ones who can keep their neutrality and still enjoy EVE I say thank you. I as I am sure you do, think some took ISD with an agenda.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-12-17 21:15:30 UTC
Cynthia Gallente wrote:
ISD usually have very relevant things to say

HEH

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Shylari Avada
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2012-12-17 21:17:14 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Your concerns are reasonable, and if you feel any ISD or CCP member is acting for their personal interests rather than those of Eve or the job they're supposed to be doing, feel free to petition it.


More fueling jump bridges, less posting on your 'alt'.

Thanks.
ISD Eshtir
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#18 - 2012-12-17 21:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Eshtir
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
We're damn near everywhere. The forum would be white if we got post tags. P
Darth Gustav wrote:

Don't they have mains?

Aren't they volunteers?

Let them post with their mains.

True and true, and we do post with our mains sometimes. However, there is a a big difference those two "personas". One is a player like any other, with opinions, agenda, and whatever else, while the other has a duty to neutrally serve Eve and the forum community -- whether that be via answering questions or via moderation.

Anyway, we don't get tags on threads because, all things considered, we are just players with fancy alts. We don't set rules, are not always right (unfortunately Oops), and have little 'official' power beyond moderation.

In other words, it's not that "ISD posts don't matter", but rather that we're not important enough to warrant putting a big flag over a thread as if there is a treasure trove in there.


And there is the nut of the issue right there.
You said it yourself.

ISD members have their "own opinions, agenda, whatever else" while having a duty to neutrally serve Eve and the forum community.

Some of us, OK me, simply don't believe the ISD as a whole has the ability to remove natural human impulses and "serve neutrally".
Given the secrecy about who the ISD's are, and what in-game background they have, it is impossible for people like me to trust you will not censor/lock to further whatever agenda you just said have, just like any other player.

It was stated months ago critiquing the whole recruitment process: How can we be sure that the null sec zealots did not flood CCP with applications, and thereby subvert the entire moderation team? The recruitment process is completely opaque, and there can be no proof, which meshed perfectly with any organised propaganda team's goals, where the meta-game is just as important, maybe MORE important, than in-game mechanics.

Until the gaming background of every ISD member, every CCP dev, every CCP content designer, is made completely public, there can be no trust that any of these people are not working for an organised group with plans of their own for the game.


Hi everyone,

let me dive into that. CCL members do not have agendas, should i find out someone has one, i will personaly remove the subject of ISD and make sure internal affairs knows about this.

I know, you wont believe me and everything i say, to make you feel better, will be thrown at me like a wet towel. As a player, im here since 2003. You can imagine i would have some high skillpoints and can do a lot of things in EVE. Well i can not. To show no bias, no favourism, no friendship and ensure neutrality on the team i lead, i deleted my 2003 player character. Did it hurt, yes. Do i want the rest of my team to do this? No! Playing EVE alone is nice too, but it is not the full game.

You may call me insane for doing this, but one thing you may never be able to call me and that is being biased. For as long as i will be responsible for the CCL team i will run a very strict rule set when it comes to moderation and interaction with players.

The structure in place to prevent your so claimed bias is the CCL team leads overseeing the team, the community team overseeing our work, edits and deletes. Followed by the GM team and Internal Affairs. You guessed it, the course of action to report us is by filing a petition. This is the easiest and fastest way.

Im afraid, CCP will never disclose who we are or who the Developers are in the game as much as you would like.

Im very open in this post with information i do not have to share with you. Why did i do it? I want you to trust us. I want you to accept us into the community as the helping people we want to be.

But to be more on topic regarding a more visible ISD badge. this was discussed between the community team and myself as the team got created. This of course involves some coding time for the web cell team. As much as i would like to see it one day, as we ISD post some very interesting informations, i have no idea if it will be implemented one day. But there is hope.

Now with this post at my side i will apply a lock on this thread as i know how it will evolve. To the OP, i will discuss the ISD badge for the forums with the Community Team again and see if we can work something out.

ISD Eshtir

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons

Interstellar Services Department