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Do MMOs need top stop trying to appeal to casuals?
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-12-17 20:19:22 UTC
Gamers rule: Only 10% of the industry's $50 billion comes from casuals.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-12-12-monetizing-games-crucial-advice-from-key-players

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Marius Deterium
Crush Kill Destroy
#2 - 2012-12-17 20:25:28 UTC
Purely a business decision based on paying players demographics.

If it was my game, and 90% were casuals, I'd do what would keep them flowing.

Easy decision if you know your customer base well.

Industry wide, I wonder if the 10% number holds up.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#3 - 2012-12-17 20:29:14 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Gamers rule: Only 10% of the industry's $50 billion comes from casuals.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-12-12-monetizing-games-crucial-advice-from-key-players

Pohbis' rule: The other 90% are spend by players who would never play your game if it wasn't for the casuals populating it.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#4 - 2012-12-17 20:34:51 UTC
10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people.
All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-12-17 20:45:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
Ocih wrote:
10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people.
All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects.


New gamers are created constantly, gamers play many games and people turn from casuals to proper gamers all the time. It's not a static number of players, that will run out at some point or can't grow at a good rate. Regardless I don't see anything wrong with catering to casuals and trying to get them to play MMOs. I just think there is a limit what you can do with a single game. A proper casual oriented MMO needs to be made specifically for them and be primarily develop by their needs. That game isn't going to be primarily played by gamers sitting in front of a computer or TV, but by anyone with a handheld device when you need to kill time for a few minutes for free.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#6 - 2012-12-17 20:45:40 UTC
Ground floor in a thread where high sec casuals (who love to throw around the erroneous and misunderstood "77% of people live in high sec!!!!" thing around) will claim up and down that they, not the hard core neckbeards who play games more consistently, are the real story in mmo gaming, despite obvious evidence to the contrary. OMG whatever will ccp do if they nerf high sec and lose 10% of their subs as the "77%" ragequit????

Now, has anyone seen my razor? This neckbeard is stylish but it's starting to itch, must be all the humidity in my mothers basement.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#7 - 2012-12-17 20:48:52 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Ocih wrote:
10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people.
All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects.


New gamers are created constantly and turn from casula to proper gamers.


Proper Gamers? just because they play one hour every 10 years and expect the same attention from developers as people who play ever day doesn't make them improper. You're racist against casuals!

Quote:

It's not a static number of players, that will run out at some point or can't grow at a good rate. Regardless I don't see anything wrong with catering to casuals and trying to get them to play MMOs. I just think there is a limit what you can do with a single game. A proper casual oriented MMO needs to be made specifically for them and be primarily develop by their needs. That game isn't going to be primarily played by gamers sitting in front of a computer or TV, but by anyone with a handheld device when you need to kill time for a few minutes for free.


You can make as many casual and single player games as you like, they won't play them because they doesn't satisfy their need to take a game specifically meant for social, more hardcore players and bend it to their will to become a single player game. Twisted
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2012-12-17 20:49:53 UTC
I am a casual EVE player due to work/family/life/ect. What has always bothered me is that the lazy, the weak, and the down right carebear all for some reason get classed as casual.
Dave Stark
#9 - 2012-12-17 20:50:27 UTC
Marius Deterium wrote:
Purely a business decision based on paying players demographics.

If it was my game, and 90% were casuals, I'd do what would keep them flowing.

Easy decision if you know your customer base well.

Industry wide, I wonder if the 10% number holds up.



that's exactly what wow does, and it gets worse and worse every time they release an update.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-12-17 20:51:09 UTC
You need to reread the article.

They are talking about casual games, not casual gaming.
There is a difference.

They are talking about a games longevity based on it replayability and a companies ability to continue to make money off of it.

Examples are councel games or games like Crysis.

Although it does have merit in the MMO world there is a difference and the business model is also different,


EVERYBODY KNOWS
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#11 - 2012-12-17 20:52:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I am a casual EVE player due to work/family/life/ect. What has always bothered me is that the lazy, the weak, and the down right carebear all for some reason get classed as casual.

Omg dude, you must play 20 hours per week or be cast out.

REAL men play EVE all the time, even at work, and even when they have white girl with shades on Avatars....

*tries to hide white girl avatar*
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#12 - 2012-12-17 20:56:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I am a casual EVE player due to work/family/life/ect. What has always bothered me is that the lazy, the weak, and the down right carebear all for some reason get classed as casual.

Omg dude, you must play 20 hours per week or be cast out.

REAL men play EVE all the time, even at work, and even when they have white girl with shades on Avatars....

*tries to hide white girl avatar*

I log in when there's timers, that will have to be enough.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#13 - 2012-12-17 21:01:20 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Ocih wrote:
10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people.
All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects.


New gamers are created constantly, gamers play many games and people turn from casuals to proper gamers all the time. It's not a static number of players, that will run out at some point or can't grow at a good rate. Regardless I don't see anything wrong with catering to casuals and trying to get them to play MMOs. I just think there is a limit what you can do with a single game. A proper casual oriented MMO needs to be made specifically for them and be primarily develop by their needs. That game isn't going to be primarily played by gamers sitting in front of a computer or TV, but by anyone with a handheld device when you need to kill time for a few minutes for free.


MMO games are not "just another game". Getting gamers is one thing. Getting MMO gamers is another basket of bees all together.
Nytak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-12-17 21:01:46 UTC
I'm a casual gamer..

I wear a t-shirt, boxers, and slippers and keep my feet propped up on my desk while I play and sip my adult beverage that may or may not include an umbrella (keeps any rainwater from diluting the alcohol)...

Unlike those non casual gamers who need blood pressure medication..

Oh wait, did I get that right or did I miss something?
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-12-17 21:53:45 UTC
Only 10%? Man, Blizzard must have made a huge mistake, catering to those guys with WoW then, eh? I wonder how they're doing...oh, yeah, 10 million subscribers! That's 22 times more than EVE, for mathematically challenged. Yeeeah, I'm sure they cry themselves to sleep every night, poor fellas, on top of that great big stinking pile of money... Roll

Seriously though, casuals have been the "meat" of every MMO for a very, very long time. How does it happen? Hardcore gamers grow up. End up with responsibilities. And become casuals. It's not a great big secret. Want to keep 'em? Cater to 'em.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-12-17 22:07:45 UTC
Ocih wrote:
10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people.
All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects.


(Citation needed)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#17 - 2012-12-17 22:08:19 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Only 10%? Man, Blizzard must have made a huge mistake, catering to those guys with WoW then, eh? I wonder how they're doing...oh, yeah, 10 million subscribers! That's 22 times more than EVE, for mathematically challenged. Yeeeah, I'm sure they cry themselves to sleep every night, poor fellas, on top of that great big stinking pile of money... Roll

Seriously though, casuals have been the "meat" of every MMO for a very, very long time. How does it happen? Hardcore gamers grow up. End up with responsibilities. And become casuals. It's not a great big secret. Want to keep 'em? Cater to 'em.


There are no hard core WoW players



True story (I read it on an EVE forum)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#18 - 2012-12-17 22:11:04 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ocih wrote:
10% comes from casuals but 100% of the growth potential is in casual minded people.
All the hard cores are playing, there are none left. If MMO's want to grow, they need to have casual aspects.

(Citation needed)

I would like to see that citation as well. Interesting statistics you have there.
Malcanis wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Only 10%? Man, Blizzard must have made a huge mistake, catering to those guys with WoW then, eh? I wonder how they're doing...oh, yeah, 10 million subscribers! That's 22 times more than EVE, for mathematically challenged. Yeeeah, I'm sure they cry themselves to sleep every night, poor fellas, on top of that great big stinking pile of money... Roll

Seriously though, casuals have been the "meat" of every MMO for a very, very long time. How does it happen? Hardcore gamers grow up. End up with responsibilities. And become casuals. It's not a great big secret. Want to keep 'em? Cater to 'em.


There are no hard core WoW players



True story (I read it on an EVE forum)

What happens to all the other MMOs? Oh right, they tend to die.

EVE is dying.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#19 - 2012-12-17 22:19:46 UTC
TL;DR for the article: gamblers are x20 more profitable than any other type of gamers. Also "casual games" in the article are Farmville and other social networks and Flash-based nonsense.

Question should be - why even bother with games when online casino is x100 easier to create and may bring insane income?
Alara IonStorm
#20 - 2012-12-17 22:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Malcanis wrote:

There are no hard core WoW players

True story (I read it on an EVE forum)

No but most of WoW's content is quick access off the bat. Hard core players rarely drop off their 40 suitcases at the newbie hotel and get to work, they are mostly created from people who dip their feet in the water. EVE has if this is still accurate a very high attrition rate.

Personally I think the way to go about that is to buff Newbie Rewards a bit, start them off with a few hundred K and buff low end bounties and mission rewards. On top of that create a CCP made reference guide, you have seen Newbie Ship Fits, judging by their fittings they even have no idea why they fit them like that. The numbers for new player ships that die in low end missions in Hi-Sec are staggering. A basic tanking and weapons instruction manual that doesn't get to far into specifics and teaches minimum knowledge would be nice. A sort of reference more in depth then the tutorial.

Besides that they should find ways to lessen the perceived barrier between safe and unsafe space, make Lo-Sec more a place you go with a few friends with friends then a Berlin Wall for some new players. Maybe encourage early grouping through group mechanic missions that require 4-5 players in T1 Frigates and later Cruisers before Incursions. Something that encourages buffer Fitting and Logi. Okay rewards and a Public channel in the system and everything.

Lots of great idea's for a better start to EVE, very few people started out as hard core.
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