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What would happen if you couldn't control docking rights on outposts?
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Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-12-17 22:59:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Okay as I think about there is one alliance that can answer if this is a great idea or not.
And that would be the one controlling fountain right now as it has NPC stations in the heart of the region.
Look at fountain and the area around it and see if you want all of null to be like that.

To be honest it is like allowing NPC null to claim SOV.
So if anything if you want a grand experiment the first thing you would do is allow that.
Then go from there.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#42 - 2012-12-17 23:00:23 UTC
docking games would happen. in your home system

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#43 - 2012-12-17 23:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
NEONOVUS wrote:

I suggested that hostiles, those you have war decced, cant dock.
Rather than the current standings thing.
Now as I am understanding one involves a few clicks a week, and the other involves many clicks.
Besides if the small group moves in next door, you can still crush them.
The issue as you are not stating is you do not desire any competition.
Which is where the other clause about going to warm and fluffy hisec comes in and the obligatory HTFU.
Being in null means you want fights, hi means you dont, and low means you are okay with the possibility of their being a fight.
Also if you arent using the system and dont want some one to set up, then use the system.
I mean that is the complaint on the phantom cloaker.
Taking advantage of stuff without input or effort.
Same as with bots and other AFK stuff.


I do like your idea that when you wardec an opponent they can no longer dock at their outposts... This provides an interesting addendum, it gives the residents warning that you are removing rights, and it has the nifty drawback of enabling hostilities in empire space...
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2012-12-17 23:05:35 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:

I suggested that hostiles, those you have war decced, cant dock.
Rather than the current standings thing.
Now as I am understanding one involves a few clicks a week, and the other involves many clicks.
Besides if the small group moves in next door, you can still crush them.
The issue as you are not stating is you do not desire any competition.
Which is where the other clause about going to warm and fluffy hisec comes in and the obligatory HTFU.
Being in null means you want fights, hi means you dont, and low means you are okay with the possibility of their being a fight.
Also if you arent using the system and dont want some one to set up, then use the system.
I mean that is the complaint on the phantom cloaker.
Taking advantage of stuff without input or effort.
Same as with bots and other AFK stuff.


I do like your idea that when you wardec an opponent they can no longer dock at your outposts... This provides an interesting addendum, it gives the owners warning that you are removing rights, and it has the nifty drawback of enabling hostilities in empire space...

Plus it makes a wonderful ISK sink in one of the bigger fountains.
Imagine they would have to dec me to keep me out of station.
And all the other hundreds of one man corps at 50 mil a week.
Of course the hilarity is they cant do anything to npc corp people
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#45 - 2012-12-17 23:06:43 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:

I suggested that hostiles, those you have war decced, cant dock.
Rather than the current standings thing.
Now as I am understanding one involves a few clicks a week, and the other involves many clicks.
Besides if the small group moves in next door, you can still crush them.
The issue as you are not stating is you do not desire any competition.
Which is where the other clause about going to warm and fluffy hisec comes in and the obligatory HTFU.
Being in null means you want fights, hi means you dont, and low means you are okay with the possibility of their being a fight.
Also if you arent using the system and dont want some one to set up, then use the system.
I mean that is the complaint on the phantom cloaker.
Taking advantage of stuff without input or effort.
Same as with bots and other AFK stuff.


I do like your idea that when you wardec an opponent they can no longer dock at your outposts... This provides an interesting addendum, it gives the owners warning that you are removing rights, and it has the nifty drawback of enabling hostilities in empire space...

Plus it makes a wonderful ISK sink in one of the bigger fountains.
Imagine they would have to dec me to keep me out of station.
And all the other hundreds of one man corps at 50 mil a week.
Of course the hilarity is they cant do anything to npc corp people


NPC corps are generally bad for the game, and players in them should be inhibited from docking on mere principle!!!
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2012-12-17 23:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: NEONOVUS
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

I was under the impression that someone who is hostile towards us, like someone we're at war with or who our standing is set negatively towards, weren't allowed to dock. You'll have to explain that part better please; I don't understand what you mean about the clicking.

What's being clicked?


Not wanting hostiles in station has nothing to do with competition.


Please feel free to correct me. How exactly would it be good for null sec if hostiles could dock in their enemies stations; in a game were one guy in a cloaked ship can keep people from playing in an entire system.

The clicking is to make every one else in the game red.
Far easier to just war dec and more fun as you get to pewpew if you come to hisec.
Also hostiles are either in station or barred from entering.
Meanwhile nonhostiles can still participate and help build null to something approaching hisec.
And really maybe if you started killing those titans instead of trying to turn all of Null into some variant of Equestria there wouldnt be such a worry of hotdropping.
Or you could be in groups and thus acting as CCP intended null to be instead of being solo and then complaining how group people kill your bots (digital or meatspace they are still the same)

And really I stayed out in low just to try this theory.
I can count my deaths on one hand over the course of 3 months.
you can check my kill boards as to where it was yet I had no grand army trying to kill me or anything.
Maybe everybody sees you as some great gold filled statue made of iron and clay, ready to crumble if anyone just pushes hard enough.

Really dont see how this allowing people in your station is bad given that for fw the complaint only was on enemies and not on neutrals.
They got it fixed and found it to be encouraging activity.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


NPC corps are generally bad for the game, and players in them should be inhibited from docking on mere principle!!!

No you guys should just encourage them to leave the npc corps by actually giving them a reward for doing so.
Poses are ok, friends and a community are better.

Optionally talk to your logistics groups and ask them to stop using npc alts for transport and have them join the mother corp instead.

You might just be able to save your pod.
Antir
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-12-17 23:59:03 UTC
One of the downsides of sov 0.0 is that if you lose your space to an enemy invasion or were kicked out by pissed off former allies or your leadership goes afk and forget to pay the bills everything you failed to evac is trapped. This is a good thing as it encorages people to fight for their space or at least attempt to get things out during the invasion when there is a real chance of getting caught and losing it all.
If you make an error with your ship in 0.0 or lowsec you will lose it, sometimes you can do everything right and still lose your stuff in which case sucks to be you. The fact that my ship and my enemies ships don't just respawn is why I'm still around and I dislike every dev intervetion which reduces that loss. The current owners actively did something to get and hold those stations so why shouldn't they be able to deny access to anyone they chose?
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2012-12-18 00:42:09 UTC
I would say it only caters to those already in power.
It does not allow your enemies to respawn true, but it also precludes those enemies in the first place.
What if all the outposts were handled as pocos?
All may use them but if a corp owns them they get a revenue stream.
Would you see your sov fall never to return?
Or would you only see that your enemy gently carreses the station scared to venture beyond the docking radius in fear of your guns?
You believe that allowing enemies and neutrals access would see only your ruin, yet I ask you, would not your enemies be as vulnerable?
How forth could you allow them to be in your stations your lands, yet fail to return such actions on them 10 fold?
You are Goonswarm you inherited the jewels of BOB, yet cower before change, fearful of what the future holds.
Go forth and conquer, put your enemies to the sword and they will not be their to harm you.
Your failure to do so betrays your graying nature, your complacency.
You care not for fighting for blood, you just want to hold onto the territory in some vain effort at glory.
You are the laughing stock of EVE, the boogey man of null.
EVE has grown and you fail to grow with it.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2012-12-18 03:51:33 UTC
Let's compromise. All stations are open to everyone, but all nullsec stations, including NPC stations, are destructible. If you want to turn null into even more of a barren wasteland, might as well do it correctly.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2012-12-18 04:15:34 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Let's compromise. All stations are open to everyone, but all nullsec stations, including NPC stations, are destructible. If you want to turn null into even more of a barren wasteland, might as well do it correctly.

I would definitely show up to shoot structures if this was the case. Also make lowsec stations destructable - of course you have to tank the station guns.

Of course people would use titans on it. Then we can have no stations anywhere outside of highsec.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Oopsy Bear
Doomheim
#51 - 2012-12-18 04:33:36 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
I would say it only caters to those already in power.


Says the guy with no power.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#52 - 2012-12-18 05:12:52 UTC
Oopsy Bear wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
I would say it only caters to those already in power.

Says the guy with no power.

Some of the most powerful people in EVE are to be found in NPC corps.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-12-18 07:54:09 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Other then a hostile fleet could show up and dock which I find wrong to some extent cause you are supposed to be able to control what happens in your system in null.

This is a case of what are you trying to accomplish and why should you be able to dock at any station ?
Right now an alliance can open it up to anyone for a docking fee.
Most don't.


I understand the desire to "control" your space... but I honestly think this same ability is hurting our game... With Sov Mechanics the way they are, it's very easy to kick out anyone that isn't a Major coalition... This creates huge regions of mostly unused space, and I think altering the mechanics to make that space utilize-able, by even hostiles, would really improve nullsec as a whole.

What does Sov really mean?
If we have a small Mexican town, who's sov is controlled by the Mexican government, but perhaps it's day to day life is controlled by the local drug cartel.... who controls that space? In essence, this is more-less the world I imagine being created...

Does it make sense? It makes complete sense that having your name on a system doesn't prevent people from utilizing that system. If it were a town, and you controlled the police and local government fairly rigorously, then you won't have any corrupt law-breaking individuals thriving there. However, if the government is controlled by a third party organization, that cannot be easily removed, then you have some interesting dynamics. I agree, if the U.S. controls the port of L.A., that they could/would prevent Chinese warships from entering port... and in this sense the idea doesn't hold a lot of water... but it would still be good for the game..


stations dont allow coalitions to contorl huge swathes of space, they dont at all.

power projection allows them to contorl huge swathes of space, adn this is facilitated by jump bridges.

until a corp can attack a system without fear of the supercapital fleet halfway across new eden instantaneously hotdropping the dreads they brought to siege the tower, corps will never be able to take space in null without sponsorship from a coalition.
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