These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High Sec / Low Sec / Null Sec Truth in Relation.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#61 - 2012-12-17 19:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Eight Two wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Eight Two wrote:


Well it's lasted more than 10 minutes and you are obviosuly right about that. However, the large part of 00 that doesn't have Tech will still remain just as worthless and that is a problem that needs to be adressed.

Also, on a more personal note you will have to understand that this nullsec propagande is fueled with reactions like yours. You are giving the Tippia, and you've summed up her "traits" pretty well, a perfect reason to flag your post for calling her a liar.

Lobbying for something can only be done if you make sure your voice is heard.

So far the nullsec propaganda has won that battle but it's up to the few that actually don't give a damn about where you live but do care for something interesting coming into Eve again.

By that I mean not licking some alliance leaders tongue by crawling deep enough up his a*s to spread the word of the hive nor do I mean farming driven carebear stampedes. Until then, the joke that progression in this game is will continue.



Yeah, the null sec propagandists do walk that fine line and know their way around the forum lawyering.
I simply do not understand how when someone posts something as "fact" when it is patently untrue, how we are not allowed to call them liars.

Some guy in here just called me stupid, but that seems to be OK.

As for getting our voices heard, CCP is not listening.
Every day I get onto the forums, and say "today I will ignore the lies", and every day I get enraged by yet another even more outrageous one, and find myself posting.

It is over, null sec has won, high sec will be a shell of what it is today by the next winter release.


Honestly, so what? One day CCP will have to listen because 4000 subscriptions and 20000 plexed alts will not be enough to keep the servers going.

At least one person in that company has to be smart enough to actually go and investigate why people are calling up a sh*tstorm every time after a patch and why there is so many threads covering the same topics over and over again. If that doesn't happen and they have to close they deserve failure with every last bit of consequence.

As enraging as some of this stuff may be, you will have to accept the fact that no matter how many lies are spread, how many threads trolled with hunrdes of alts, there is no way that they will ever succeed in shutting the legit players up.

It has happened in the past and in the end they all just turned on each other, it will just happen again. It's a question of when, not if.


The more people like you cry and whine, the more EvE Online grows.

The Tears Must Flow
SaKoil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-12-17 19:25:50 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Eight Two wrote:


Well it's lasted more than 10 minutes and you are obviosuly right about that. However, the large part of 00 that doesn't have Tech will still remain just as worthless and that is a problem that needs to be adressed.

Also, on a more personal note you will have to understand that this nullsec propagande is fueled with reactions like yours. You are giving the Tippia, and you've summed up her "traits" pretty well, a perfect reason to flag your post for calling her a liar.

Lobbying for something can only be done if you make sure your voice is heard.

So far the nullsec propaganda has won that battle but it's up to the few that actually don't give a damn about where you live but do care for something interesting coming into Eve again.

By that I mean not licking some alliance leaders tongue by crawling deep enough up his a*s to spread the word of the hive nor do I mean farming driven carebear stampedes. Until then, the joke that progression in this game is will continue.



Yeah, the null sec propagandists do walk that fine line and know their way around the forum lawyering.
I simply do not understand how when someone posts something as "fact" when it is patently untrue, how we are not allowed to call them liars.

Some guy in here just called me stupid, but that seems to be OK.

As for getting our voices heard, CCP is not listening.
Every day I get onto the forums, and say "today I will ignore the lies", and every day I get enraged by yet another even more outrageous one, and find myself posting.

It is over, null sec has won, high sec will be a shell of what it is today by the next winter release.

Go on.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#63 - 2012-12-17 19:25:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
The problem is that the nullsec alliances ingore what they actually are.

They are empires. Empire builders, ever heard of it?
No, the problem is that the game mechanics don't allow for empire building on a scale that even remotely comes close to providing the facilities and expedience offered by highsec. Until they allow for that, the alliances should remember that they are not — and never can be — empires.


If the mechanics had been there, some guysincluding me would love to see those empires offering facilities and expediance offered by highsec, but the real "bosses" only want a perma-war situation, war camps where there's no space for civilians to come in and start a real empire.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#64 - 2012-12-17 19:30:42 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:

The more people like you cry and whine, the more EvE Online grows.


0/10, need to train Trolling at least to IV. So, got anything useful to contribute to the discussion? Oh wait, you're trying to get the thread locked by provoking an insult. Yeah... not gonna happen.
Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#65 - 2012-12-17 19:38:12 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
The problem is that the nullsec alliances ingore what they actually are.

They are empires. Empire builders, ever heard of it?
No, the problem is that the game mechanics don't allow for empire building on a scale that even remotely comes close to providing the facilities and expedience offered by highsec. Until they allow for that, the alliances should remember that they are not — and never can be — empires.


If the mechanics had been there, some guysincluding me would love to see those empires offering facilities and expediance offered by highsec, but the real "bosses" only want a perma-war situation, war camps where there's no space for civilians to come in and start a real empire.


You're not alone in that. Maybe some of the current big players will realize what caused the downfall of their predecessors and start lobbying for something useful for once.

The hivemind and backstabbing mentality has been around for as long as the servers were online, it's just a matter of time that someone may actually be smart enough to exploit the connections in a way that would allow persistance over mindless destruction.

Again, it's perfectly clear that null is currently lacking the tools but that's because nobody has asked for them to begin with.

Also, nullspace is playerspace, no npc protection there.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#66 - 2012-12-17 19:39:26 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:

3. lack of interest: miners dont want to think they're giving their minerals for cero profit, industrialist are ******* beancounters so they dont want to give at least a 10% of their work for the organization. that's another pain in the ass. that solo mentality keeps away the idea of forming an empire.


In RL we are not all in one happy family. Even in the same country, most think about their own plans, good and future.

Industrialists are as much beancounters in RL as they are in game, yet in RL the whole thing works.

Until the null sec leaders won't switch from a "our guild" mentality to a "empire of many interests" we'll never have true null sec empires.

Providing actual mechanics to achieve the "empire of many interests" is actually easier than changing the leaders mentality, there's lots of resistance against giving up some of that god like power and allow many "strangers" each with their plans to get taxes off them and go forward with a "nation".

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#67 - 2012-12-17 19:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:

3. lack of interest: miners dont want to think they're giving their minerals for cero profit, industrialist are ******* beancounters so they dont want to give at least a 10% of their work for the organization. that's another pain in the ass. that solo mentality keeps away the idea of forming an empire.


In RL we are not all in one happy family. Even in the same country, most think about their own plans, good and future.

Industrialists are as much beancounters in RL as they are in game, yet in RL the whole thing works.

Until the null sec leaders won't switch from a "our guild" mentality to a "empire of many interests" we'll never have true null sec empires.

Providing actual mechanics to achieve the "empire of many interests" is actually easier than changing the leaders mentality, there's lots of resistance against giving up some of that god like power and allow many "strangers" each with their plans to get taxes off them and go forward with a "nation".

So by "empire of many interests" are you proposing a coalition of some sort?

Because what you described looks an awful lot like the CFC. Members of the CFC share interests and concerns and resources with other member alliances. We fly through each others' space and even share enemies. We also come to one-anothers' mutual aid (if called for).

I'm not sure you have any qualifications to discuss the leaders of a coalition which works exactly like the one you have idealized in your post. If you did you'd see that you just described the CFC at large and beyond that, in all likelihood, the HBC as well.

I wouldn't really know about the HBC though as I am not in a member alliance. That's probably the same reason you don't know what you're talking about with regard to the affairs of the leaders of "our guild."

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-12-17 19:48:01 UTC
Eight Two wrote:
The hivemind and backstabbing mentality has been around for as long as the servers were online, it's just a matter of time that someone may actually be smart enough to exploit the connections in a way that would allow persistance over mindless destruction.

Again, it's perfectly clear that null is currently lacking the tools but that's because nobody has asked for them to begin with.

Also, nullspace is playerspace, no npc protection there.

Are you seriously advocating that all the null players shuld just sit around a campfire and sing, kum bay ya? Seriously, I make money off these jerks blowing themselves up. Screw you buddy.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
SaKoil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-12-17 19:48:15 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:

3. lack of interest: miners dont want to think they're giving their minerals for cero profit, industrialist are ******* beancounters so they dont want to give at least a 10% of their work for the organization. that's another pain in the ass. that solo mentality keeps away the idea of forming an empire.


In RL we are not all in one happy family. Even in the same country, most think about their own plans, good and future.

Industrialists are as much beancounters in RL as they are in game, yet in RL the whole thing works.

Until the null sec leaders won't switch from a "our guild" mentality to a "empire of many interests" we'll never have true null sec empires.

Providing actual mechanics to achieve the "empire of many interests" is actually easier than changing the leaders mentality, there's lots of resistance against giving up some of that god like power and allow many "strangers" each with their plans to get taxes off them and go forward with a "nation".

If the tools actually existed, you can bet those empires would be already in place. That is, if that kind of organisations would be viable to survive.

History has proven that empires of solo-minded strangers are often brittle and lack cohesion required in promoting the common interests.

Blaming the leaders of succesful corporations is really.. constructive.
P00P
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-12-17 19:52:29 UTC
Why not allow a player owned station to accept anyone, but if any aggression comes to the player, his corp, or his alliance, then the person docked in that player owned station has 24 hours to get their stuff out or it becomes the property of the station.
Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#71 - 2012-12-17 19:53:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Eight Two
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:

3. lack of interest: miners dont want to think they're giving their minerals for cero profit, industrialist are ******* beancounters so they dont want to give at least a 10% of their work for the organization. that's another pain in the ass. that solo mentality keeps away the idea of forming an empire.


In RL we are not all in one happy family. Even in the same country, most think about their own plans, good and future.

Industrialists are as much beancounters in RL as they are in game, yet in RL the whole thing works.



In RL the principle works because you can only do one thing at a time. Every enclosed system has a maximum sustainable population for every set of specific critieria , no matter if it's this soon the be gone planet of ours (tinfoil hats ftw!) or a virtual universe.

The higher the individual needs/wants the lower max. sustainable population becomes. Which brings us back to Alts Online.

Quote:
Are you seriously advocating that all the null players shuld just sit around a campfire and sing, kum bay ya? Seriously, I make money off these jerks blowing themselves up. Screw you buddy


Thank you Big smile But I'm suggesting quite the contrary. The CFC advertisement post above should give the clue, they're all blue and nice and friendly towards each other and they make you some iskies blowing other people up.

What if these would allow "pubbies" in their space too under certain conditions? Wouldn't these pubbies get a little more careless as to where they roam and may even end up building their own homes in 0.0 that of course they will have to defend.

I just doubled your isk. Shocked Ofc that would require the necessary tools.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#72 - 2012-12-17 20:02:33 UTC
Someone should really tell the Provi Bloc that you can't build anything in 0.0 Roll

0.0 might not have the optimal mechanics for it, but if more alliances showed an interest in actually wanting to build something, instead of filling their personal wallets and e-peening, they would get better mechanics.

CCP is just giving 0.0 what they are asking for, and so far it's been more ways to blow stuff up, not build stuff ( to blow up ).

0.0 bittervets have nobody but themselves to blame for the fact that EVE has turned into 3rd party forum sperging for them.

It is so un-amusingly ironic, that the segment of players who years ago set out to break EVE for everyone else, are now the people who have the most positive effect on gameplay.

If it wouldn't spell the end for EVE as we know it, I'd say CCP should just let 0.0 rot in their own pile of boredom until the majority show an active interest in actually being part of the solution, instead of whining at CCP to provide one they can just consume.
Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#73 - 2012-12-17 20:02:56 UTC
SaKoil wrote:

If the tools actually existed, you can bet those empires would be already in place. That is, if that kind of organisations would be viable to survive.

History has proven that empires of solo-minded strangers are often brittle and lack cohesion required in promoting the common interests.

Blaming the leaders of succesful corporations is really.. constructive.


Again, the hivemind-my guild mentality is working really well for the people involved, the whole point from the start of this topic is they alienate everybody that's not part of the hive.

By bringing "citizens" in and giving them the tools they could effectively become able to colonize their space and grow on the riches of taxes, fees and the likes while making null more attractive. Not only that, with providing decent security measures they could actually make their space more safe and more appealing for the industry than highsec for their citizens.

More people means more infrastructure, means more stuff to fight over means more action and profit to be made.

Only an true empire like that will ever be able to compete with the appeal NPC empires.
Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#74 - 2012-12-17 20:04:34 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
Someone should really tell the Provi Bloc that you can't build anything in 0.0 Roll

0.0 might not have the optimal mechanics for it, but if more alliances showed an interest in actually wanting to build something, instead of filling their personal wallets and e-peening, they would get better mechanics.

CCP is just giving 0.0 what they are asking for, and so far it's been more ways to blow stuff up, not build stuff ( to blow up ).

0.0 bittervets have nobody but themselves to blame for the fact that EVE has turned into 3rd party forum sperging for them.

It is so un-amusingly ironic, that the segment of players who years ago set out to break EVE for everyone else, are now the people who have the most positive effect on gameplay.

If it wouldn't spell the end for EVE as we know it, I'd say CCP should just let 0.0 rot in their own pile of boredom until the majority show an active interest in actually being part of the solution, instead of whining at CCP to provide one they can just consume.


QFE
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#75 - 2012-12-17 20:05:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Eight Two wrote:
SaKoil wrote:

If the tools actually existed, you can bet those empires would be already in place. That is, if that kind of organisations would be viable to survive.

History has proven that empires of solo-minded strangers are often brittle and lack cohesion required in promoting the common interests.

Blaming the leaders of succesful corporations is really.. constructive.


Again, the hivemind-my guild mentality is working really well for the people involved, the whole point from the start of this topic is they alienate everybody that's not part of the hive.

By bringing "citizens" in and giving them the tools they could effectively become able to colonize their space and grow on the riches of taxes, fees and the likes while making null more attractive. Not only that, with providing decent security measures they could actually make their space more safe and more appealing for the industry than highsec for their citizens.

More people means more infrastructure, means more stuff to fight over means more action and profit to be made.

Only an true empire like that will ever be able to compete with the appeal NPC empires.

You act like you think member-corps of the coalitions don't recruit during peacetime.

I have found this to be false in most (but not all) cases.

Alienation is happening, but it's self-inflicted by those experiencing it as a result of risk-aversion-induced cognitive dissonance.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#76 - 2012-12-17 20:14:31 UTC
Eight Two wrote:


There's alts for dualboxing missions, increasing plex farming output in FW and exploration, alts to avoid standing hits, mining alts, etc. The list is almost endless.

By coincidence, most of these alts can be conveniently placed in the safe haven that highsec is by nature to generate more and more imbalance.

It's not only the highsec guys ruining the party for null, the unpleasant truth is it's the highsec alts as well and the more people realize that they need an alt to be able to compete the worse it will get.



I agree that everyone has an alt. Or two. Or six, in my case. However not everyone uses them to exploit the system. Cyno alts are convenient to move quickly from one place to another without having to wait hours for people who said they would be there to help, but aren't - since after all this is a game and occasionally people have real lives to attend to. Freighter alts are convenient for any alliance unless it wants its logistics crippled every time a 2 man corp decides to war dec.

And finally the most important reason - alts allow you to train several characters at a time and allow for specialization. It's nice that some days I can fly a carrier, other days I can fly a black ops, other days I can fly a frigate, all with very decent skills, just by switching characters. If I couldn't do this I would either have to take years training across all specialties, or forego that play style comepletely - usually before ever having tried it.

Alts are here to stay, whether you like it or not.

But hey, are you trying to stop an in-game organization from succeeding, or an actual human player? Because if it's the latter, then perhaps you've lost the idea that this is just a game... Yeah, go play your alt while I camp your station...with my alt. Meantime we are both playing another toon somewhere else. What difference does it make?
Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#77 - 2012-12-17 20:15:03 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Eight Two wrote:
SaKoil wrote:

If the tools actually existed, you can bet those empires would be already in place. That is, if that kind of organisations would be viable to survive.

History has proven that empires of solo-minded strangers are often brittle and lack cohesion required in promoting the common interests.

Blaming the leaders of succesful corporations is really.. constructive.


Again, the hivemind-my guild mentality is working really well for the people involved, the whole point from the start of this topic is they alienate everybody that's not part of the hive.

By bringing "citizens" in and giving them the tools they could effectively become able to colonize their space and grow on the riches of taxes, fees and the likes while making null more attractive. Not only that, with providing decent security measures they could actually make their space more safe and more appealing for the industry than highsec for their citizens.

More people means more infrastructure, means more stuff to fight over means more action and profit to be made.

Only an true empire like that will ever be able to compete with the appeal NPC empires.

You act like you think member-corps of the coalitions don't recruit during peacetime.

I have found this to be false in most (but not all) cases.

Alienation is happening, but it's self-inflicted by those experiencing it as a result of risk-aversion cognitive dissonance.


I'm well aware that there's recruitment going on but that is not the point. It's about actually not being part of the hive but living there that is the difference of a proper Empire. Contribution then comes from fees, taxes and industry rather than CTAs, rents and the likes.

Just look at the NPC factions as example - you get Navy/Police + Concord (the my guild party, the executive/enforcing part) and the corporations affiliated with the my guild party but operating independently and free for anyone to participate without being a member as long as standings requirements are met. No station gun will ever pop you as long as you maintain that standing, nor will any enforcing department come after you if you play by the rules.

Result: You get a player driven empire within their Sov.

Also, that last part is a really lame attempt at shifting the blame but as Phobis said, until you're willing to become a part of the solution... you get the idea.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#78 - 2012-12-17 20:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Eight Two wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Eight Two wrote:
SaKoil wrote:

If the tools actually existed, you can bet those empires would be already in place. That is, if that kind of organisations would be viable to survive.

History has proven that empires of solo-minded strangers are often brittle and lack cohesion required in promoting the common interests.

Blaming the leaders of succesful corporations is really.. constructive.


Again, the hivemind-my guild mentality is working really well for the people involved, the whole point from the start of this topic is they alienate everybody that's not part of the hive.

By bringing "citizens" in and giving them the tools they could effectively become able to colonize their space and grow on the riches of taxes, fees and the likes while making null more attractive. Not only that, with providing decent security measures they could actually make their space more safe and more appealing for the industry than highsec for their citizens.

More people means more infrastructure, means more stuff to fight over means more action and profit to be made.

Only an true empire like that will ever be able to compete with the appeal NPC empires.

You act like you think member-corps of the coalitions don't recruit during peacetime.

I have found this to be false in most (but not all) cases.

Alienation is happening, but it's self-inflicted by those experiencing it as a result of risk-aversion cognitive dissonance.


I'm well aware that there's recruitment going on but that is not the point. It's about actually not being part of the hive but living there that is the difference of a proper Empire. Contribution then comes from fees, taxes and industry rather than CTAs, rents and the likes.

Just look at the NPC factions as example - you get Navy/Police + Concord (the my guild party, the executive/enforcing part) and the corporations affiliated with the my guild party but operating independently and free for anyone to participate without being a member as long as standings requirements are met. No station gun will ever pop you as long as you maintain that standing, nor will any enforcing department come after you if you play by the rules.

Result: You get a player driven empire within their Sov.

Also, that last part is a really lame attempt at shifting the blame but as Phobis said, until you're willing to become a part of the solution... you get the idea.

The CFC does not have renters. The CFC doesn't do CTA's (at least FA doesn't). The CFC have miners. The CFC build many things, including outposts and supers.

Sounds like empire building to me.

You mention renters like they have any relevance at all. Is it 2010?

As for being part of the solution, I think Michael Jackson may have had some advice for you regarding a mirror, sir, as I am clearly in the part of space where empires have been, are, and will continue to be built.

What's going on in high-sec these days besides cognitive dissonance arising from risk aversion?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
The CandyGirl
Candy's Toy Shop
#79 - 2012-12-17 20:24:20 UTC
Father Amarria wrote:
Look I know there are great Corps / Alliances in Null Sec.
I know that there should be a better reward for the Risk taken in Null Sec.
I am in complete agreement with you on that.
I also know from having read that a System in Null Sec will not produce better yields of XYZ is mined and continually mined on a daily basis.
I know that not every territory in Null Sec is Pirate controlled.

But saying that High Sec is to easy a reward... your not looking at the Fact High Sec was designed for Rookies to Strive in till they are ready to face the challenges of Life in Null Sec.

If rookies could not make easy isk to afford skill books that cost 100's of millions of isk to billions of isk how would you propose they earn the isk to get them? Are you going to shell it out for them?

Null Sec is a whole new ball park of the entire mechanics of the game.

Players have to put the time in to make a system a level 5 industrial system. It's just not going to spawn the next day because you added a better ore yield Mod to your PoS / Stations.




But you are ignoring the larger point that everything in eve hell even in rl is risk vs reward and the risk vs reward of high sec compaired to the other reagions is way to low.

For example i am currenlt running lvl 4s with 2 toons. One clears it the other loots and salvages. And i make about 100mil per hour some times 150 if i get certain missions back to back.

And that is with nearly 0 risk.

The problem with low sec is not the pirates. The problem with low sec is that there is no real reason to try to live there.

In other words even if the pirates could no longer gate camp. Were not nearly as numerous, to where you could actually do things without being jumped or scanned down in 5 seconds, there would still be no point to go there. The difference is isk/hour for high sec and low sec is so low that going from almost no risk to even some risk would not make it worth it.

Being a smartass is always better than being a dumbass!
Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#80 - 2012-12-17 20:30:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Eight Two
Ptraci wrote:

I agree that everyone has an alt. Or two. Or six, in my case. However not everyone uses them to exploit the system. Cyno alts are convenient to move quickly from one place to another without having to wait hours for people who said they would be there to help, but aren't - since after all this is a game and occasionally people have real lives to attend to. Freighter alts are convenient for any alliance unless it wants its logistics crippled every time a 2 man corp decides to war dec.

And finally the most important reason - alts allow you to train several characters at a time and allow for specialization. It's nice that some days I can fly a carrier, other days I can fly a black ops, other days I can fly a frigate, all with very decent skills, just by switching characters. If I couldn't do this I would either have to take years training across all specialties, or forego that play style comepletely - usually before ever having tried it.

Alts are here to stay, whether you like it or not.

But hey, are you trying to stop an in-game organization from succeeding, or an actual human player? Because if it's the latter, then perhaps you've lost the idea that this is just a game... Yeah, go play your alt while I camp your station...with my alt. Meantime we are both playing another toon somewhere else. What difference does it make?


Maybe the wording was off there, I'll try to elaborate. The thought behind that is actually people curse the all safe heaven of highsec but go there with their 6 alts to mine, run missions and the likes, therefor contributing to the underlying problem.

I'm well aware that with some of the game mechanics it's about impossible to get things done without using alts. It's the point when the ratio true manpower:alt becomes so terribly screwed that it creates a problem.

I would very much like to hear one good reason for a person that's a member of a big 00 alliance for maintaining a fleet of alts in highsec then come crying about highsec killing null.


Quote:
The CFC does not have renters. The CFC doesn't do CTA's (at least FA doesn't). The CFC have miners. The CFC build many things, including outposts and supers.

Sounds like empire building to me.

You mention renters like they have any relevance at all. Is it 2010?

As for being part of the solution, I think Michael Jackson may have had some advice for you regarding a mirror, sir, as I am clearly in the part of space where empires have been, are, and will continue to be built.

What's going on in high-sec these days besides cognitive dissonance arising from risk-aversion?


Yeah FA doesn't what about the rest? ;)

I appreciate the attempt though, maybe you may be answering the following if null is such a great place to be in CFC space:
What is the problem with highsec then? No CTAs, Miners, building a lot of things?

f anything, that sounds like lowsec needs a massive buff and null and high a massive nerf.

Sounds a terrible lot like Nullsec is the promised land now anyways or a mix of jealousy and hurt pride.

As for being part of the solution, I don't need broken highsec nor do I need broken null mechanics to make my isk, and plenty if I may add.