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Titan Bridges… Fair or Not?
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Dragnarok
Tork n' beans
#61 - 2012-12-18 17:17:52 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:


Also loads of people use noobships for cynos, people more competent than you. That aside, Whine whine whine. You want riskless PvP and being able to just gank anyone at your little noobish gatecamp. Check their guns or run away? Seriously how incompetent and afraid are you guys. Ive gatecamped and I havent had these problems, hell my corp has gatecamped so much CCP changed the map! See no titan bridge problem, just a bad player crying for nerfs to cover for his poor tactics and laziness.


Sorry, but no skilled blober like you, should come back and try to harder once you get some skills in PvP to even come close at schooling someone.

And loads of people get alphas in the face in those noobships cyno. FYI alpha damage means dealing an insane amount of dmg possibly one shooting a ship. Blink Look, you learned something new... HOORAYYYYY!
So where is the competence of not being able to hold the cyno up long enough for his/her fleet to hotdrop? And there is a lot of "whine whine whine" coming out of you for me, but so far you have only showed that you suffer from ADT. Incapable of following a sentence and paying a shred of attention to what I've written so far.

This is the reason why I respectfully asked you to not post here anymore, because I did not want to call you out on what I believe you suffer from. And also you are just making things go around in circles.

I really do not know on how else to tell you... but I hope you understand... so...
Thank you for your collaboration.
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-12-18 17:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: kraiklyn Asatru
Dragnarok wrote:
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:


Also loads of people use noobships for cynos, people more competent than you. That aside, Whine whine whine. You want riskless PvP and being able to just gank anyone at your little noobish gatecamp. Check their guns or run away? Seriously how incompetent and afraid are you guys. Ive gatecamped and I havent had these problems, hell my corp has gatecamped so much CCP changed the map! See no titan bridge problem, just a bad player crying for nerfs to cover for his poor tactics and laziness.


Sorry, but no skilled blober like you, should come back and try to harder once you get some skills in PvP to even come close at schooling someone.

And loads of people get alphas in the face in those noobships cyno. FYI alpha damage means dealing an insane amount of dmg possibly one shooting a ship. Blink Look, you learned something new... HOORAYYYYY!
So where is the competence of not being able to hold the cyno up long enough for his/her fleet to hotdrop? And there is a lot of "whine whine whine" coming out of you for me, but so far you have only showed that you suffer from ADT. Incapable of following a sentence and paying a shred of attention to what I've written so far.

This is the reason why I respectfully asked you to not post here anymore, because I did not want to call you out on what I believe you suffer from. And also you are just making things go around in circles.

I really do not know on how else to tell you... but I hope you understand... so...
Thank you for your collaboration.



I indeed have a tendancy to zone out when someone uses so many sentences to whine about butthurt. First learn to PvP then you'll find out that your hotdrop issues will no longer appear. This whole tread is nothing but crybaby behaviour from your part. Like I said in all my previous posts. You just don't seem to get the ******* hint.
W0wbagger
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#63 - 2012-12-18 17:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: W0wbagger
I think the truth is that a small corp shouldn't necessarily always be able to counter a large corp - the cowboys didn't downgrade to bows and arrows vs the Indians to make it fair... If you have resources then it's appropriate that you gain advantage from this - a lot of the isk side of your argument could be compared to being annoyed that other people can field t3 fleets and you can only fly rifters, it's just life.
Clearly it's not unreasonable or nonviable to expect people to aspire to titan ownership as the people you're talking about have achieved it.

This said - i wouldn't really mind at all if you couldn't titan bridge on grid with a fight. 95% of the use for our titan is for transportation in order to roam new areas - this doesn't mean that if someone's doing something stupid in something expensive that we won't try to kill them (http://shadowcartel.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=32004) but by and large I would prefer to bridge next door and jump in, as constant bridging on small targets just damages the ability of the small gang and solo pilots in my alliance to get fights. (I'm sure you can find exceptions to this but they are unlikely to have been when I was fcing).

If they got rid of it we would survive as we are a roaming alliance, however I would miss the ability to roam far and wide that titans have given us.

Everyone enjoys different things - to me, gatecamping in a system (Naguton? :) ) 23.5/7 and preying on noobs who come in completely unprepared, is just as boring/bad/lame as sitting on a titan waiting to bridge on some poor unsuspecting guy, however for someone else doing a 60 jump roam and getting no kills sounds awful too.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#64 - 2012-12-18 18:11:52 UTC
Dragnarok wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Dragnarok wrote:


*snip*

Even if you don't see Titans as a huge issue in low sec. Do you mind commenting on some of the possible ways of resolving this perfect advantage edge big corps have over small ones?

Thanks.


Not sure if serious.

EDIT. Nah this guy has 95 kills and no indication that anyone has ever bridged onto him. There is no way this is a serious post. Shame on us all for falling for the emotroll.



Well, aren't you ignorant then?

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18233557

I killed him before I could warp out... and I warped out not thanks to my skills but rather thanks to their 8 interceptor pilots pointing the same ships. So 30 ships "successfully" spread points only to 3 out of 5 of us, and 2 of us (a BattleCruiser and Battleship) got out successfully. Not cause we were skilled, but cause they were bad. And now, no skilled pilots abuse this system cause they wouldn't be able to get any kills any other way. Understand?

But knowing how troll work, and the lights up stairs being out, you will come back and make a smart*** comment. I just hope to God it will be a good one.


http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14736201 That was the last time i got hotdropped on a gate. You know whos fault that was? It was mine. For not being aware that desman had a bridge op running.

There have been numerous times weve been hotdropped since, Some go our way, some dont. Welcome to eve.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#65 - 2012-12-18 19:51:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
W0wbagger wrote:
I think the truth is that a small corp shouldn't necessarily always be able to counter a large corp - the cowboys didn't downgrade to bows and arrows vs the Indians to make it fair... If you have resources then it's appropriate that you gain advantage from this - a lot of the isk side of your argument could be compared to being annoyed that other people can field t3 fleets and you can only fly rifters, it's just life.
Clearly it's not unreasonable or nonviable to expect people to aspire to titan ownership as the people you're talking about have achieved it.

This said - i wouldn't really mind at all if you couldn't titan bridge on grid with a fight. 95% of the use for our titan is for transportation in order to roam new areas - this doesn't mean that if someone's doing something stupid in something expensive that we won't try to kill them (http://shadowcartel.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=32004) but by and large I would prefer to bridge next door and jump in, as constant bridging on small targets just damages the ability of the small gang and solo pilots in my alliance to get fights. (I'm sure you can find exceptions to this but they are unlikely to have been when I was fcing).

If they got rid of it we would survive as we are a roaming alliance, however I would miss the ability to roam far and wide that titans have given us.

Everyone enjoys different things - to me, gatecamping in a system (Naguton? :) ) 23.5/7 and preying on noobs who come in completely unprepared, is just as boring/bad/lame as sitting on a titan waiting to bridge on some poor unsuspecting guy, however for someone else doing a 60 jump roam and getting no kills sounds awful too.



I started a post yesterday that I never finished pretty much along the lines of perhaps not allowing a Titian bridge to open directly into a fight. I think it would be much more interesting tactically if you had to bridge into the next system and not directly into the fight. The reality is I don't think there would be any way for CCP to do something like this outside of creating some mod that could be activated on a ship to block a bridge from opening.

If they could do it, it would make people have to think more about tactics outside of toss in bait ship and hope it can scram something while the blob drops in and everyone runs away. Other than larger groups hot dropping one another, I just can't see where Titian's are really going to bring fights in current form. They are mostly just an expensive gank toy for lazy people in the current form.

As far as using them for traveling that's about the only decent use I see for them in low sec. However us poor boys have learned how to get similar results out of Worm Holes. Blink
Escomboli
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-12-19 00:00:17 UTC
Make them have ridiculously low range i.e. black ops bridge and its near uselessness.
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#67 - 2012-12-19 00:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Chandaris
These guys gatecamp all day, popping noobs, and almost never leave their home system .. If we show up with a handful of BC's, they all scatter like roaches, dock up and take a half hour to form up with a guardian heavy 15 man armor BS fleet to fight our 5 bc's.. lol

and they wonder why people hot drop them.

maybe you should stop sucking, and get a titan of your own.. you have a fair number of members, or as Darek mentioned, learn how to determine if you're enemy's titans are on.. it's not that hard

stop being so terrible! :P

Outside of that, titan bridging is annoying as it's risk-free instant force projection.. the 'almost risk free' part goes against what EVE should be like.. it would be pretty simple to patch this into oblivion.. that would relegate titans to more of a 'getting to the fight quickly' role.. if you wanted to hot drop in earnest you'd have to commit caps, upping the risk factor a lot.

- only allow one ship through a bridge every 5 seconds
- make ships appear off grid from the cyno
- institute a mass limitation so only a handful of ships can jump through at once..

any of these, or many others would break titan bridging.. i feel it should be broken.. EVE was more enjoyable before people hot dropped everything.
Disastro
Wrecking Shots
#68 - 2012-12-19 01:58:23 UTC
Dragnarok wrote:
[quote=Disastro]



Well, thank you for sharing your personal opinion of me and SLIGHTLY touching on the main topic. Now should I share my personal opinion of you and what some others think of you?...


Please do. Personal opinions of internet spaceship pilots concerns me a lot.
Hot McDropper
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-12-19 02:31:02 UTC
This argument should not be about fairness at all. Things aren't fair, and that is fine. Get over it.

This argument should be about whether it's fun or not. Having been on both sides of these kinds of drops, I don't think they're fun no matter which side of the drop I'm on.

Sitting on a titan waiting to jump while your scouts do their **** is not fun. Camping gates is not fun, and camping a titan is somehow even less fun than camping a gate.

I miss roaming around and having to use the geography of systems around me to hide my fleet. It's always been about the same tricky games, but now it takes nearly no effort to accomplish. And near-instant support reduces the risk to your forward gang by a ton, which makes it way easy to have lots of risk-free engagements. And that's not a very good thing for EVE, imo.

A few years ago I saw a video of some CCP person accurately explain it kind of like this: "Hitchcock had it right, the suspense and build up to whatever is going to happen is as important as what happens. Bridging has killed that in EVE, and I want to fix it." ...and then nothing happened.
Rajere
Vicious Inc
#70 - 2012-12-19 02:36:34 UTC
If you're running around in large gangs of big, expensive ships and you then blob an obvious bait ship, then you should expect to get titan bridged. You can go back to any era of Eve and replace titan bridged with black op'd, hotdropped, nano kited, sniped, or simply just baited and blobbed. The game changes, Tactics change but it's the same basic whine on your end.

If you're running around in a small gang then you shouldn't be getting caught by cyno ships to begin with. It's not even worth the jump fuel to be bothering some 3-5 man cruiser gang unless whoever you're fighting are just very, very lame.

Unless you're idea of a small gang is like 5 faction BS slow boating around low sec, but in that case if it's not titan bridging that kills you it would be dreads or carriers or some massive blob of fw guys.
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#71 - 2012-12-19 08:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ynot Eyob
W0wbagger wrote:
I think the truth is that a small corp shouldn't necessarily always be able to counter a large corp - the cowboys didn't downgrade to bows and arrows vs the Indians to make it fair... If you have resources then it's appropriate that you gain advantage from this - a lot of the isk side of your argument could be compared to being annoyed that other people can field t3 fleets and you can only fly rifters, it's just life.


I have to agree on this statement, and this give the small corp or alliances a way to messure their own improvement vs other alliances / corporation.

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#72 - 2012-12-19 16:11:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Chandaris
I'll add to my above that gatecamping is exactly as lame of a tactic as titan dropping is.. and is what the OP's corp does all day. If you don't camp in overly slow expensive crap, people probably won't drop you..

- on gate camp ships use faster cheaper crap people will be less interested in dropping on
- if you sit at 150 with sniping tornado's obviously we're gonna drop a cloaky and open a cyno on it.. how else are we gonna kill the damn thing?

Pot, meet kettle.

There is always a bigger fish..

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen

and other assorted cliches'
Bluetippedflyer
Fallen Rabbits
#73 - 2012-12-20 01:49:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Bluetippedflyer
Hot McDropper wrote:

A few years ago I saw a video of some CCP person accurately explain it kind of like this: "Hitchcock had it right, the suspense and build up to whatever is going to happen is as important as what happens. Bridging has killed that in EVE, and I want to fix it." ...and then nothing happened.


this, all those who were born unto eve when bridging was always around will not understand it
Smabs
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-12-20 13:00:29 UTC
Yeah that's one big problem with titan bridging. In a lot of cases it's boring to be the one sitting on the titan and boring to be the one getting dropped on.
Hitch Hendar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2012-12-20 16:17:43 UTC
Hey OP

you complain about hot drop's why not just move to another system

or get used to hotdrop o'clock

like it or leave its as simple as that
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#76 - 2012-12-20 20:12:55 UTC
One does not simply 'live' 6 jumps from Goinard.
GTN
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#77 - 2012-12-21 00:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: GTN
Yeah bridges are overpowered.
I think we fairly need to double, no, triple the titan cost and associated skill point requirements (and triple skill costs too), by introducing some fairly (20x and lvl5) new skills required to fly a titan.
Make also the account holding the titan cost more, like 200$ per month (some sort of licence required (titan flying licence)), and no dual boxing permitted while owning a titan.
It would also be fairly fair to make bridging more expensive by increasing fuel requirements. A good price would be around 100M isk worth of fuel for a battleship jumping at maximum distance.
In my opinion, it would also be fair to decrease the bridge duration, about 2 seconds (still overestimating) would be enough.
I think after this it MAY be balanced then.

The game-breaking problem of this unfair game, is that somewhat someone is going to win the battle, we need to address that so no one makes it alive, and both parties return home happy.
Can't CCP just copy World of Warcraft? Everyone will be happy then and no more crying.
Typherian
V.O.I.D.
Pandemic Legion
#78 - 2012-12-21 02:15:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Typherian
Titan bridges are the only way to deal with cowardly scrubs that run at the sight of anything close to their size. Make local not such an easy intel tool and then you can fiddle with bridges. Scout alts + easy intel local = no surprise at all without a titan bridge. A lot of people in this thread have been saying there is no risk in titan bridging. Well I'll counter there is no risk in camping a gate or station with scouts in all directions multiple jumps out. Nearly impossible to kill unless they are asleep at the keyboard.

Edit: Add to that fleets shooting pocos or POSes.
Dragnarok
Tork n' beans
#79 - 2012-12-21 11:00:18 UTC
Chandaris wrote:
These guys gatecamp all day, popping noobs, and almost never leave their home system .. If we show up with a handful of BC's, they all scatter like roaches, dock up and take a half hour to form up with a guardian heavy 15 man armor BS fleet to fight our 5 bc's.. lol

and they wonder why people hot drop them.

maybe you should stop sucking, and get a titan of your own.. you have a fair number of members, or as Darek mentioned, learn how to determine if you're enemy's titans are on.. it's not that hard

stop being so terrible! :P

Outside of that, titan bridging is annoying as it's risk-free instant force projection.. the 'almost risk free' part goes against what EVE should be like.. it would be pretty simple to patch this into oblivion.. that would relegate titans to more of a 'getting to the fight quickly' role.. if you wanted to hot drop in earnest you'd have to commit caps, upping the risk factor a lot.

- only allow one ship through a bridge every 5 seconds
- make ships appear off grid from the cyno
- institute a mass limitation so only a handful of ships can jump through at once..

any of these, or many others would break titan bridging.. i feel it should be broken.. EVE was more enjoyable before people hot dropped everything.


Chandaris... my dear Chandaris... You are Shadow Cartel... You guys are capable of fleeting a good set of ships that compliment one another.

Everyone... Chandaris is part of the alliance I was talking about that they have hotdropped us, but unlike the other alliances hotdropping us, they got skills. But, Chandaris, you say you would show up with 5 BC's and we will run like roaches, that is CAUSE you cyno every single ship you can. Well, maybe not every ship, but most of them. And the reason we chase you with a 15 man fleet with logi is cause one of your 5 BC's will cyno and drop a fleet of 30 over our heads like you have done in the past. Thanks for showing interest in my Forum-Post. I do appreciate it :)

But, if you guys are willing to 5 vs 5 us, we got no problem at all, we would actually enjoy that fight very much. But we will have to do it when you Log-Off your Titan pilots... all 5 of them. When that happens, we will fight you 5 vs 5... although I am a little dubious that some of your guys if not all, will honor the 5 vs 5 duel.
Dragnarok
Tork n' beans
#80 - 2012-12-21 11:23:41 UTC
Typherian wrote:
Titan bridges are the only way to deal with cowardly scrubs that run at the sight of anything close to their size. Make local not such an easy intel tool and then you can fiddle with bridges. Scout alts + easy intel local = no surprise at all without a titan bridge. A lot of people in this thread have been saying there is no risk in titan bridging. Well I'll counter there is no risk in camping a gate or station with scouts in all directions multiple jumps out. Nearly impossible to kill unless they are asleep at the keyboard.

Edit: Add to that fleets shooting pocos or POSes.


I do see where you are coming from, and how a lot of people would just gang up on even a shuttle. But let me spin it right back at you. Don't you think that those cowardly scrubs if they had a titan would actually start using it to blob a shuttle? (obviously not a shuttle, cause that would be just sad, but you get my exaggeration). And as for countering a gate camp... I've seen successful gate-camp crashes from a much smaller fleet... the power of Remote Repairs (RR) is impressive. Now tell me, how can you counter an alliance who bridges on you whom you have never heard of, or a group of individuals with nothing in common suddenly hotdropping on you (yeah, not the same corp, not the same alliance, but they had one thing in common... they all came from a titan bridge).

Now my good sir, be so kind and tell me, what kind of modules in EvE can counter Titan-Bridges, just as RR ships can counter a gate camp? Don't start preaching you can set out scouts to find the titans and blah blah blah. Work with the scenario I told you, cause it is exactly what happened to us. So? Any clever thoughts? Let me add some more flavor to this... You have never seen them in your PIPE or even in the high-sec systems around your hunting ground. So? Any clever solutions?

If you got nothing, then maybe you need to think a little more. And maybe you should start realizing that comparing a gatecamp risk's factor with that of a Titan-Bridge's risk as being zero... is a laughfable statement, and even those who use Titans (but wouldn't admit what I am about to state openly) for bridging are having a good laughter by now.

I believed I told someone before, that this is not an Amateur Comedy show for you to debue