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Nullsec is a ghetto.
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Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-12-17 16:28:20 UTC
Andski wrote:
I still don't see exactly why players would unsub en masse because they can't make nullsec levels of income in perfect safety?


"nullsec levels" of income are, like anything else, a matter of effort. And the availability of income is actually higher in null.

What you're asking for is highsec ease of nullsec iskies.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#82 - 2012-12-17 16:32:37 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Considering that any walled community can be considered a ghetto, then yes, that's exactly what it is. NBSI. In reality we have gated communities. In EvE we have gatecamped communities.

I've often wondered if it were possible for a benign group to establish themselves some sov in nullsec, police it from pirates, encourage free trade... but then I realized that any such group would quickly be squashed by all the hyper-aggressive power trippers that live next door.

And there's the problem: The very nature of nullsec rewards the biggest jerks. The only way to become King of the Jerks is the be the biggest jerk in the kingdom. Even if he wanted to change things he couldn't, because the moment he stopped being the Biggest Jerk then he'd get shot in the back and replaced by someone who was. It can''t be changed... but it's not like they'd even want to.


Ah, this is new and interesting. The problem is , of course, that in a game where most of the ships have guns (and the company that makes it puts out trailer after trailer after trailer of people in space ships shooting at people) people are actually shooting at each other.

A "jerk" in real life becomes president of prime minister, but a video game about conflcit is supposed to be happy happy sunshine.

EVE is and has always been about screw over each and every person you can, the mostly Icelandic psychos that made it are most probably "jerks" that made a game FOR jerks. It's encouraged.

And that simply means you choice to play EVE is the bad choice, not the choices jerks make to be jerks in a game made by jerks......

Quote:

There is a certain irony, of course. Nullsec was a originally meant to be a place where people would have more personal freedom to do what they want that Empire space offered. In reality, it's the exact opposite. Nullsec has become so feudalized over the years, with camping & botting down to an exact science, that now it's hisec that offers the most freedom to players.

In the end, the entire "nerf hisec" movement is driven entirely by this envy. It's not about safety, it's not about money. It's about freedom. The freedom to place your POS anywhere you've got the standings. The freedom to fly where you want, mine where you want, ship where you want, build where you want, and all without having to kiss anyone's butts for permission. The freedom to work for your own goals and not those of your overlord.


It is a mistake to try to ddetermine the motivations of others, because you always get it wrong. I don't know a single null sec player than Envys high sec, because it's painfully easy to just go live there your self.

No, we've told you our motivations (which are different for each individual person). My motivation isn't envy or freedom, it's fairness. The player driven portion of the game (null and wormholes, and partly low sec, the majority of the game's territory) should not play second fiddle to space protected by game mechanics. High Sec should at best be a stable trade zone and starter area, not a place to profit from shooting pirates CONCORD should have removed from there long ago.

How in the hell do you call a place high sec when millions of npc pirates are killed there every week, With the exception of the occasional raid/incursions, You should have to go to pirate space to kill pirates for the most part.

Quote:

The other thing that nullbears like to forget is this: Not everyone in EvE is a triple-account no-lifer who lives for e-peen enlargement by bullying others. Y'know some of us have jobs and families and stuff and we really have no desire to get dragged into all the tedious political drama of nullsec. We like to be able to play the game casually and without having to look over our shoulders every two seconds. We play the game for our enjoyment, not theirs - and I believe that is what really makes them sick to their stomachs. See "freedom" above. Every moment of their EvE life is so totally controlled and anxiety driven that seeing people over in hisec actually having fun - and worse, having fun in a way that isn't exactly like themselves - just offends them on some deep, personal level. A level that involves numerous personal issues that I'm not going to go into. I'll just say that maybe they should, I dunno, leave the house more often or something.

Is there poop in your corner of the sandbox? Does it stink? Too bad, but that's no excuse to go spreading it around. Do you see us hisec people whine that nullsec needs to be nerfed? No, because frankly we don't give a crap. See, we've got a very simple solution for all of nullsec's problems: We don't go there. We just let them do their only thing, unmolested and (here is the the part that really angers them) totally ignored. We really don't give a crap about all of their self-inflicted problems. Because in the end these problems aren't so much problems with the game but problems with themselves (see above).

And nullbears, you can't win this one. Sure, you control all the CSM seats. You can use that power to nerf hisec until there is no one left playing there at all. And you'll know what will happen then? The carebears won't come join you and your obsessive lifestyle. We'll just quit. Find other games, or, I dunno, spend more time gardening or something.
[/url]


Whats funny is that you suggest that null sec players (ie the people who play EVE they way it should be played according to it's founding vision) are somehow warped because they play a spaceships with guns game like it's a spaceships with guns game, but at the same time can't realize that its YOU and your ilk (expecting happy happy sunshine in a game where the DEVELOPERS make rap videos telling you to HTFU) that are the messed up ones.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#83 - 2012-12-17 21:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
I agree. 0.0 is a ghetto run by Mobsters (the large coalitions), agreed.

They need to do something because all it is is:
- Shooting SBUs
- Shooting TCUs
- Shooting IHubs
- Shooting POS
- Repping structures

Its a boring PVE grind occassionally interupted by getting dropped on by a blob twice your size that doesn't even result in you earning isk

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#84 - 2012-12-17 22:28:55 UTC
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who equates null with the ghetto.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#85 - 2012-12-17 22:30:52 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
I agree. 0.0 is a ghetto run by Mobsters (the large coalitions), agreed.

They need to do something because all it is is:
- Shooting SBUs
- Shooting TCUs
- Shooting IHubs
- Shooting POS
- Repping structures

Its a boring PVE grind occassionally interupted by getting dropped on by a blob twice your size that doesn't even result in you earning isk

There's also stories and maybe even songs from the FC.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kalissis
#86 - 2012-12-17 22:33:17 UTC
Remove titan bridging, remove passive income --> 0.0 is worth it again. Simple, Clean, will bring a lot of tears and FUN!.. but thats what we want anyway... Big smileBig smileBig smile
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-12-17 22:34:58 UTC
Because Null is a pyramid scam being run by around 1000 people. Most people in Null are sheep in wolves clothing.

I know where my tax is going. It's an ISK sink. It's gone from the game. Can every null bear say that? Ever watched the rise and fall of Alliances in Null? All the ISK ends up in player wallets, making yet another trillionaire who never did an anom or mined a rock in all their time in EVE.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#88 - 2012-12-17 22:50:43 UTC
ever since I left Null, my life in Eve has become:

1) More fun, moar pew less hiding from a single scout with a cyno
2) Playing with more people
3) Actually using wormholes and using them instead of assuming someone lives there
4) did I mention playing with more people?
5) Also, holy crap there is a ton more people!
6) less stress

Why should I ever go back?
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-12-17 23:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Imports Plus wrote:
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:
But on the other hand, if you nerf Highsec, you have the very real possibility of losing money, which in turns screws errybody. The economy's already based heavily in Highsec.

To my knowledge, most Sov holders important guns, beans and bullets from Highsec. To that end, if its easier to make liquid cash in Nullsec, you could increase the number of ships, etc. bought.


I am absolutely positive that all the "I'm quitting and taking my 10 miner accounts if you nerf me" guys will still be playing long after any balancing passes. It's more apathy and lack of a coherent vision for 0.0 than anything.


I literally can't understand the mind of someone who actually wants to mine in this game. It's like ratting. It's not a thing I want to be doing, it's a thing I have to do in order to do the things I want to be doing.

well, CCP tried to do it less mind numbing and came up with rogue drones dropping drone alloys. literally pve'ing-for-minerals.



last time I checked, that didn't work out that good and they removed it.

Alavaria Fera wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
I agree. 0.0 is a ghetto run by Mobsters (the large coalitions), agreed.

They need to do something because all it is is:
- Shooting SBUs
- Shooting TCUs
- Shooting IHubs
- Shooting POS
- Repping structures

Its a boring PVE grind occassionally interupted by getting dropped on by a blob twice your size that doesn't even result in you earning isk

There's also stories and maybe even songs from the FC.



i'm gonna be honest here, that is probably the only good thing I remember from my days of nullsec'ing.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#90 - 2012-12-17 23:02:56 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Katran Luftschreck hit it right on the nail, and I think the angry posting that followed it kind of demonstrated that. I live primarily in low-sec at the moment, and am planning on expanding into W-space sometime in the future. I haven't even considered going to nullsec, and I don't think I will, and not because I don't think I couldn't get something useful out of it - having access to the high-end ore out there would certainly help the new industrial pilots my corporation just picked up build things. Having space to put up a starbase would give me access to my own research slots which I could use without having to wait ages for empire station slots to be free. There are excellent opportunities for exploring out there as well, or so I've heard.

Thing is, though? I can get all of that in W-space, along with genuine PvP with no risk of a hotdrop, and I don't need to beg anyone to let me into their alliance. I don't need to pay rent. I don't need to tithe resources to an overlord. Back in 2010 I took a group of eight friends into a wormhole and set up a large tower, stayed there for a month, and it was the most fun I've ever had in EVE Online. I wish we could have stayed longer, but eventually some of the pilots got fatigued and we didn't have enough to maintain the wormhole on our own. The only downside to a wormhole is that it has no ice fields and thus we did have to rely on empire markets for some commodities, but living isolated from the vast majority of EVE's crazy politics, making money by ourselves and getting good fights with no risk of a hotdrop was awesome.

Nullsec just can't offer that sort of experience.


Quoted for truth, the only thing that prevented me from totally moving in a WH is how much I hate living at a POS.
I bet if CCP made comfortable POSes there'd be a mass exodus of guys to WHs.
A mass of guys who can't stand huge pyramidal alliances, blobs, CTAs, politics, structure bashing, hotdrops, super caps and all the other utter garbage infesting nullsec.

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Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-12-17 23:07:32 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I bet if CCP made comfortable POSes there'd be a mass exodus of guys to WHs.


For those of us in the cheap seats that just want a laugh, please do go ahead and define "comfortable" in this sense.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#92 - 2012-12-17 23:08:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Jenn aSide wrote:


EVE is and has always been about screw over each and every person you can, the mostly Icelandic psychos that made it are most probably "jerks" that made a game FOR jerks. It's encouraged.

And that simply means you choice to play EVE is the bad choice, not the choices jerks make to be jerks in a game made by jerks......


I have created a charity in your cold, harsh EvE, and it does very well. I feel happy about my bad choice P

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#93 - 2012-12-17 23:10:32 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I bet if CCP made comfortable POSes there'd be a mass exodus of guys to WHs.


For those of us in the cheap seats that just want a laugh, please do go ahead and define "comfortable" in this sense.


Well, when I had been there I could not even assemble / fit / swap ships with my friends without all sorts of contortions and workarounds.

Also you can keep your cheap seats and eat them, WH life >>>>>>>> yours, keep rosicking.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#94 - 2012-12-17 23:12:40 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
I agree. 0.0 is a ghetto run by Mobsters (the large coalitions), agreed.

They need to do something because all it is is:
- Shooting SBUs
- Shooting TCUs
- Shooting IHubs
- Shooting POS
- Repping structures

Its a boring PVE grind occassionally interupted by getting dropped on by a blob twice your size that doesn't even result in you earning isk

There's also stories and maybe even songs from the FC.


I had it in a FW corp, didn't even to endure null politics and stuff Cool

Also FC on alchool, lots of it!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#95 - 2012-12-18 00:04:32 UTC
So Elvis was singing about Null....ahhhhhh.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-12-18 00:05:10 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I had it in a FW corp, didn't even to endure null politics and stuff Cool

Also FC on alchool, lots of it!


Oh crap, was that me?! XD

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2012-12-18 00:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Make no mistake. If you've been playing this game long enough you already know the outcome. The whines are getting louder and more frequent. CCP will again nerf hi sec. It will happen.

My prediction:

The hardcore zealots will calm for a few months claiming victory for the nerf.
There will still not be a mass exodus of targets into lo/null sec.
A few months/years later the "nerf hi sec" whines will begin to slowly ramp up again.
Rinse and repaet.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution
#98 - 2012-12-18 01:20:29 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:
So, Null Sec's a ghetto. The facilities there are run down, its run by anarchic gangs, and everyone there is poor. Ugh

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYEEDT16ra56NHD7fNKXcYKIo0POKBHOxXANZvIjDvOvC3bFCSpFWfOCRgew

So, instead of proclaiming 'nurf highsec. nurf nurf nurf nuurf.'

Why not fix Nullsec by buffing it up to be better then High Sec? Instead of making it less profitable to live somewhere, why not make other places better to live? If the crappiest parts of Nullsec are as profitable as Highsec, then things will get better. Make the zones that are better then other places in Nullsec, buff those accordingly.

Low sec? I mean, ****, I wish I knew how to posit an idea to fix that place.


Before anyone asks, yes, I was in Nullsec, where Cascade Imminent was. But I saw the writing on the wall and gtfo'd.




Allow system to system warp "Star Trek style" and get rid of local and nullsec can get all of the targets that it wants.

They do want targets, right? I mean, I see a lot of complaining about a lack of target and phat loots, plus raging over "AFK cloakers" and why they can't farm when one is present. They say they go out to null because they are not PVP-averse carebears like people in high sec. Surely they will embrace my idea.



This. 100% This.

The solution isn't "High Sec needs to be nerfed so people will be forced to go into Null sec"

The solution is to "Make Null Sec better" As it was said- if most everyone who plays this game stays out of null, there's probably something that needs to be fixed in null.

Me? I rarely ever go into null. Well, I've done it three times. And been blown up three times. I run in a crappy ship just to see how far I can make it. And then I upgrade my clone status again and go back to running missions or mining.

The biggest complaints I see about null are Local Channel and Gate Camping. The ability to park at a gate, use auto targeting systems, and ensure that the incoming ship is blown up at a choke point. Now, I'm not a carebear. I never have been. I've played games in which PvP was very expensive...

I just don't like the idea of choke points in the vastness of SPACE. Space is supposed to be infinite, yet I'm at a choke point? Sad. Ah well, I suppose that's what happens when you can't fly ships faster than the speed of light. Star Trek was so awesome. With speeds up to 999.9 times the speed of light, there were never choke points.

Also, and most importantly- get rid of afk abilities. No auto-targeting. If you're afk, you lose. I'd love to go explore the slums of Null, but without the ability to scan the other sides of gates, I can't justify the cost of an expensive ship. It's a business after all, isn't it?

Anyway, this is only my opinion. I post this knowing full well that people will disagree with it.

All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2012-12-18 01:32:48 UTC
Honestly what I think there needs to be more incentive for isn't for people to come to nullsec, but for space-holding entities to want to have other people in their systems.

If CCP and null-sec pilots want more people to come to null-sec, what they need to do is make the place more open. In an ideal world, null-sec pilots would want to open up their stations to neutral pilots. Instead of trying to mess with hi-sec pilots, they should be competing for their attention - "hey, don't go to his space, come to my space! It's so much better here!" Territory owners would look less like tyrants and more like landlords and franchise managers. Null sec blocs would be judged not by how much territory they owned but by what quality the space they hold was, how well they could defend it, how safe they could keep it and how easy it was to get to it.

I don't really like CVA, but I think their space is a good example of what I'm getting at.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution
#100 - 2012-12-18 01:41:20 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Honestly what I think there needs to be more incentive for isn't for people to come to nullsec, but for space-holding entities to want to have other people in their systems.

If CCP and null-sec pilots want more people to come to null-sec, what they need to do is make the place more open. In an ideal world, null-sec pilots would want to open up their stations to neutral pilots. Instead of trying to mess with hi-sec pilots, they should be competing for their attention - "hey, don't go to his space, come to my space! It's so much better here!" Territory owners would look less like tyrants and more like landlords and franchise managers. Null sec blocs would be judged not by how much territory they owned but by what quality the space they hold was, how well they could defend it, how safe they could keep it and how easy it was to get to it.

I don't really like CVA, but I think their space is a good example of what I'm getting at.


This is probably the best idea ever. I've often wondered myself where the Null Sec empires are- the safe havens- the player run security space in no security space.


All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.