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THINK TANK -- ✓GRAPHICS Revolution! *NEW

First post
Author
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-12-17 14:51:47 UTC
Azrin Stella Oerndotte wrote:
My! A whole thread dedicated to graphical updates that are already in the pipeline since before fanfest with several videos showing it off.

The only thing I can't seem to remember is if they are planing to increase texture resolution, but then again I also remember reading somewhere that the model polygons is the limiter and that tessellation would solve this but that it would take a good couple of man years to finish (I can't find a link atm but it was less work than the trinity update).

That same video also show off future lightning effects that will come after (with?) the V3 project. There are also concept art of ships taking damage to noticeable shields as well as armor damage effects.

This is a big project and it will take time and should not be rushed, just be patient.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7oaz8mWug

I still remember.
its a step forward, but still a lots of steps to go.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#102 - 2012-12-17 14:52:30 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Logix42 wrote:
I'm seeing two different threads of conversation here. One is graphics quality. The other is performance.

As far as graphics goes, no one has mentioned Tesselation yet. At fanfest last year they showed this video and asked if it was something players wanted them to pursue. This was a stand-alone test, not using the current Eve engine. You can read more details in this dev blog
So CCP is looking forward with graphics, don't worry too much on that front

As far performance goes... well that got a very brief mention at fanfest too but they had no map of how they're going to do it. (unless I missed something) In my personal opinion performance should take as high, or higher priority than improving graphics. Just my 0.02 ISK


Performance will always be an intrinsic problem to the Trinity Engine.
CPUs just can't MT as efficiently enough for the scale of battles in EVE and considering how Team Avatar, the team behind the Carbon Superstructure is disbanded, I'm not sure how things would go on the technical front .
But the art team is still here ,and its time to turn living into thriving .


And how is adding to performance issues good exactly?

EVE still manages to allow a thousand people to shoot at each other.
How many other MMO's have you played that allow that?

How exactly is peformance an intrinsic problem with EVE, when it allows for such large scale fights to happen?
Poly counts don't make a better game, but bad performance always makes a worse one.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-12-17 14:52:50 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Irony: Derrick Smart is a goon and was set to join Goonwaffe but wisely decided Eve sucks.


If you hate the game so much, why do you continue to play it?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-12-17 14:57:10 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Logix42 wrote:
I'm seeing two different threads of conversation here. One is graphics quality. The other is performance.

As far as graphics goes, no one has mentioned Tesselation yet. At fanfest last year they showed this video and asked if it was something players wanted them to pursue. This was a stand-alone test, not using the current Eve engine. You can read more details in this dev blog
So CCP is looking forward with graphics, don't worry too much on that front

As far performance goes... well that got a very brief mention at fanfest too but they had no map of how they're going to do it. (unless I missed something) In my personal opinion performance should take as high, or higher priority than improving graphics. Just my 0.02 ISK


Performance will always be an intrinsic problem to the Trinity Engine.
CPUs just can't MT as efficiently enough for the scale of battles in EVE and considering how Team Avatar, the team behind the Carbon Superstructure is disbanded, I'm not sure how things would go on the technical front .
But the art team is still here ,and its time to turn living into thriving .


And how is adding to performance issues good exactly?

EVE still manages to allow a thousand people to shoot at each other.
How many other MMO's have you played that allow that?

How exactly is peformance an intrinsic problem with EVE, when it allows for such large scale fights to happen?
Poly counts don't make a better game, but bad performance always makes a worse one.



EVE used to not allow thousand players fleet battles , now they do .
The reason why ? I stated many times , go watch the fanfest vids on YT.

How is performance an intrinsic issue?
Reset your camera , and then fly into a gas cloud .
come back and then tell us what happened to your FPS.

Go to Jita, sit for a few hours , undock at peak traffic with default camera, tell us what happened again.

But thats just what the Trinity Engine does. Adding improved dynamic graphics shouldn't be a problem for the new gen industry standard computers when Trinity is optimized on the next graphically orientated expansion.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Azrin Stella Oerndotte
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-12-17 14:58:45 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Azrin Stella Oerndotte wrote:
My! A whole thread dedicated to graphical updates that are already in the pipeline since before fanfest with several videos showing it off.

The only thing I can't seem to remember is if they are planing to increase texture resolution, but then again I also remember reading somewhere that the model polygons is the limiter and that tessellation would solve this but that it would take a good couple of man years to finish (I can't find a link atm but it was less work than the trinity update).

That same video also show off future lightning effects that will come after (with?) the V3 project. There are also concept art of ships taking damage to noticeable shields as well as armor damage effects.

This is a big project and it will take time and should not be rushed, just be patient.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7oaz8mWug

I still remember.
its a step forward, but still a lots of steps to go.


Good job linking to the same video I did, proves that you read everything. Roll

That video proves that tessellation is a great first step toward adding all that detail you are begging for. Give it time and relax instead of whining on the forums.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-12-17 15:01:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
Azrin Stella Oerndotte wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Azrin Stella Oerndotte wrote:
My! A whole thread dedicated to graphical updates that are already in the pipeline since before fanfest with several videos showing it off.

The only thing I can't seem to remember is if they are planing to increase texture resolution, but then again I also remember reading somewhere that the model polygons is the limiter and that tessellation would solve this but that it would take a good couple of man years to finish (I can't find a link atm but it was less work than the trinity update).

That same video also show off future lightning effects that will come after (with?) the V3 project. There are also concept art of ships taking damage to noticeable shields as well as armor damage effects.

This is a big project and it will take time and should not be rushed, just be patient.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7oaz8mWug

I still remember.
its a step forward, but still a lots of steps to go.


Good job linking to the same video I did, proves that you read everything. Roll

That video proves that tessellation is a great first step toward adding all that detail you are begging for. Give it time and relax instead of whining on the forums.


But .. but... I WANT IT NAO!!!AND I WANT MORE DETAILS! Don't leave us hanging in the wind :O Give us something to look forward to Sad

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Ezri Dax
The Organization of Fire and Steel
Elementium Alliance
#107 - 2012-12-17 15:01:51 UTC
I have no lag when i pvp so i dont care .

also times are tough for most of us just now , buying new graphics cards are not a thought i relish much .
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#108 - 2012-12-17 15:04:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Cutter Isaacson
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


So, pray tell, what is it you wanted? Do you even know?



The tessellation and shaders upgrade are stated on the press conference, its planned by CCP , not me.
But what I want is more extensive graphical effects , note the starting post and the quotes .



Like I said, what exactly is it that you want? Shader upgrades have already begun, tessellation is in the pipeline and new lighting is apparently ready to roll once the V3 work is complete. So if I understand this correctly, you want what is already planned, has already been implemented, or is in production as we speak? So you have no real point at all? Interesting.

On a related note:

Ivy Romanova wrote:


Performance will always be an intrinsic problem to the Trinity Engine.
CPUs just can't MT as efficiently enough for the scale of battles in EVE and considering how Team Avatar, the team behind the Carbon Superstructure is disbanded, I'm not sure how things would go on the technical front .
But the art team is still here ,and its time to turn living into thriving .



Team Avatar being disbanded has exactly no effect on Carbon. That is overseen by the CTG, or Core Technology Group. You would know this if you had done even the smallest amount of research on anything relating to a subject which you claim to be passionate about.

source: Core Technology, Carbon and You.

So now we've cleared up a few things, what exactly was it you wanted to see?

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

Luc Chastot
#109 - 2012-12-17 15:11:02 UTC
PlanetSide 2.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#110 - 2012-12-17 15:11:57 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


So, pray tell, what is it you wanted? Do you even know?



The tessellation and shaders upgrade are stated on the press conference, its planned by CCP , not me.
But what I want is more extensive graphical effects , note the starting post and the quotes .



Like I said, what exactly is it that you want? Shader upgrades have already begun, tessellation is in the pipeline and new lighting is apparently ready to roll once the V3 work is complete. So if I understand this correctly, you want what is already planned, has already been implemented, or is in production as we speak? So you have no real point at all? Interesting.

On a related note:

Ivy Romanova wrote:


Performance will always be an intrinsic problem to the Trinity Engine.
CPUs just can't MT as efficiently enough for the scale of battles in EVE and considering how Team Avatar, the team behind the Carbon Superstructure is disbanded, I'm not sure how things would go on the technical front .
But the art team is still here ,and its time to turn living into thriving .



Team Avatar being disbanded has exactly no effect on Carbon. That is overseen by the CTG, or Core Technology Group. You would know this if you had done even the smallest amount of research on anything relating to a subject which you claim to be passionate about.

source: Core Technology, Carbon and You.

So now we've cleared up a few things, what exactly was it you wanted to see?



The future development and direction is vague at best to the general public, unlike the previous updates which we were promised "Missiles", "turrets" , "V3 textures".
At this stage all we have is , expect changes coming (e.g: DX11 and Phys updates)
Its not specific enough.
What I really want to see?

Maybe you'll understand the worlds from someone's mouth better.
"the life of a ship had a certain continuity. When a ship was built or undocking, it wasn't just popped out, it was launched. When a ship dies, it does so in a fashion consistent with it's mass and purpose. Fighters left a streaking fire trail leading to an explosion, bigger ships had secondary explosions and slowly rolled out of control before a devastating final explosion. The sound effect made you feel like the ship was being ripped apart from the inside or that you were fighting for your life in a spacebourne fur ball. I think CCP could learn a lot about battle immersion from HW2"


PS: Cool ! Learning more everyday Big smile Core Tech it is !

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Azrin Stella Oerndotte
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#111 - 2012-12-17 15:16:20 UTC
I suppose you haven't seen the WIP titan destruction animations, where they actually brake apart? Just a response to an earlier demand.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-12-17 15:19:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
Quote:
2003


What.

The graphic engine was updated in 2007ish with Trinity expansion. Please do some actual research before posting dates....
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-12-17 15:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivy Romanova
Azrin Stella Oerndotte wrote:
I suppose you haven't seen the WIP titan destruction animations, where they actually brake apart? Just a response to an earlier demand.

Uhhh.... not exactly

It doesn't creek , it doesn't bend, no gradual slow secondary eruption and flaring or flickering lights or gas leaking off the hull.
its like someone detonated a bomb on the ship or it imploded or something.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#114 - 2012-12-17 15:19:38 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Quote:
2003


What.

The graphic engine was updated in 2007ish with Trinity expansion. Please do some actual research before posting dates....

waht?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Tykari
The Observatory
#115 - 2012-12-17 15:20:44 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


So, pray tell, what is it you wanted? Do you even know?



The tessellation and shaders upgrade are stated on the press conference, its planned by CCP , not me.
But what I want is more extensive graphical effects , note the starting post and the quotes .



Like I said, what exactly is it that you want? Shader upgrades have already begun, tessellation is in the pipeline and new lighting is apparently ready to roll once the V3 work is complete. So if I understand this correctly, you want what is already planned, has already been implemented, or is in production as we speak? So you have no real point at all? Interesting.

On a related note:

Ivy Romanova wrote:


Performance will always be an intrinsic problem to the Trinity Engine.
CPUs just can't MT as efficiently enough for the scale of battles in EVE and considering how Team Avatar, the team behind the Carbon Superstructure is disbanded, I'm not sure how things would go on the technical front .
But the art team is still here ,and its time to turn living into thriving .



Team Avatar being disbanded has exactly no effect on Carbon. That is overseen by the CTG, or Core Technology Group. You would know this if you had done even the smallest amount of research on anything relating to a subject which you claim to be passionate about.

source: Core Technology, Carbon and You.

So now we've cleared up a few things, what exactly was it you wanted to see?



The future development and direction is vague at best to the general public, unlike the previous updates which we were promised "Missiles", "turrets" , "V3 textures".
At this stage all we have is , expect changes coming (e.g: DX11 and Phys updates)
Its not specific enough.
What I really want to see?

Maybe you'll understand the worlds from someone's mouth better.
"the life of a ship had a certain continuity. When a ship was built or undocking, it wasn't just popped out, it was launched. When a ship dies, it does so in a fashion consistent with it's mass and purpose. Fighters left a streaking fire trail leading to an explosion, bigger ships had secondary explosions and slowly rolled out of control before a devastating final explosion. The sound effect made you feel like the ship was being ripped apart from the inside or that you were fighting for your life in a spacebourne fur ball. I think CCP could learn a lot about battle immersion from HW2"


PS: Cool ! Learning more everyday Big smile Core Tech it is !


And what exactly is it that you expect? That by next expansion all of this will be done? Because in that case dream on, it's not going to happen. It will take time plain and simple. They're working on the graphics and they will continue to do so. You're not the first and likely not the last who is asking for it. They know, they remember. They'll see what is feasible and possible and do it at the pace they can.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.

Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#116 - 2012-12-17 15:28:49 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
PlanetSide 2.



It's apples and oranges time again.

PS2 - Multiple servers each with multiple shards known as continents. Server clusters are isolated from each other and players from one cannot access another, much like WoW. Maximum of 2000 players on any continent, capped at 1,950 to provide a buffer. Every continent has it's own server cluster with three continents making up a total of 5,850 people allowed on any one total server. Not all 2000 players could ever realistically gather in one spot as the servers crash constantly.

Not only this but PS2's hardware requirement specs are much higher than EVE's, which again brings up the point I and others already made about expecting 98% of your customers to spend hundreds and hundreds of $/£ etc on new hardware.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#117 - 2012-12-17 15:31:25 UTC
It's not graphics Eve lacks, it is the behavior and movement of ships and the "feel" of combat between ships. In this regard I agree with OP, Homeworld 2 is unchallenged till today regarding the presentation of a space combat. Especially the Complex mod, which tweaks the game in various regards like expanding weapon range on all ships is so excellent that I am still playing it today and prefer it to all other space RTS. For 2003 this game was godlike.

It is exactly what a space battle would look like. If Eve could somehow capture that Homeworld feel.... for starters getting rid of the bumpy submarine behaviour would be nice.
Azrin Stella Oerndotte
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-12-17 15:33:28 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Azrin Stella Oerndotte wrote:
I suppose you haven't seen the WIP titan destruction animations, where they actually brake apart? Just a response to an earlier demand.

Uhhh.... not exactly

It doesn't creek , it doesn't bend, no gradual slow secondary eruption and flaring or flickering lights or gas leaking off the hull.
its like someone detonated a bomb on the ship or it imploded or something.


They are WIP and so not in the game yet, its somewhere in the art video from the fanfest, have a look through that playlist for anything that might be interesting, like the future video for what they are planning, it is in fact pretty clear where the art is heading from my point of view.
Dunkle Lars
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2012-12-17 15:35:24 UTC
The graphics in EvE are fine. Thinking you need better looking ships/modules/whatever for the gameplay to be better is simply stupid.. Something I personally see as "the console disease"

Sure new graphics would be cool but after a week or two I wouldn't notice them anymore. I would much rather, that they spent time on WiS but that again is a personel opinion.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#120 - 2012-12-17 15:36:47 UTC
Going in useless circles yet again.

I must unsubscribe here. Laterz.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882