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THINK TANK -- ✓GRAPHICS Revolution! *NEW

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YuuKnow
The Scope
#341 - 2013-04-07 16:19:31 UTC
Nice suggestions from the OP.

The ship style of HW2 is still my favorite of all time. Aggressive, yet aesthetic. The turret size to ship size is the best and I've already been disappointed that CCPs graphics team insist on teeny, tiny turrets on most of their ships (why?...).

IMHO Haegemonia's firing, impact, and explosion graphics are the best and envious. I think the bullet graphcs have a lot to do with it and the fact that firing graphics were given detail and slowed to the point that the beauty of the incoming fire could be appreciated. The firing effects of Eve atm are blurry smears. The Haegemonia combat pace is perfect to appreciate the artwork involved as well. I would definately switch over to any FIS MMOPG that replicated those graphics and combat pace. Just wish there was a competitor out there working on it...

yk
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#342 - 2013-04-07 19:06:51 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Nadia Fey wrote:
Nova Satar wrote:
If you want a longevity and engagement in a game you need content before aesthetics, so their priorities are just fine. Plus it seems silly even having to point it out but the graphics in EVE are great and just fine for the style of game.

Looking at your HW2 links... i dont care if it has a higher poly model count (/??) or a better thingy deterioration level, when you actually just use your eyes and look.... EVE looks a hundred times better.


we are kinda talking about the actual animation, aesthetics and destruction effects tbh :P
Not the poly counts What?
Drones in eve materalise out of thin air while those in HW2 actually comes out of a bay.

In Nexus , shield's bubble wrap actually flickers when hit , there is a clear distinction between munitions glancing off the shield or tanked by armor .

Ships in those games are actually designed to be scientifically sound and have a sense of scale .
The level of details and texture resolution scale upwards with ship size .

Combat wise , if HW is a MMORPG , they look and feel much more polished than the current iteration of EvE

And don't even get me started on Star Citizen


Yes, it's amazing the quantity and quality of graphical detail you can get in a SINGLE PLAYER GAME... or a game where the number of players interacting is severely limited.

That being said, I do believe there are some interesting things still to be done and likely will be done.



thats bullshit, in hw2 even being a "single player" game you could cordinate and control thousands of ships simultaneously that data had to be sincronized among 8 clients on large maps, you could very easily do something alike but reduce the thousands to lets say... 100 ships, 80 clients? but oh wait, even if its an N power problem where the load would go sick insane, homeworld 2 did that with ******* 1 core from the stone age at ultra low frequencies and without the support of data crunchings GPUs of modern technology.

problem is investment in new technologies and capable Code wise DEvelopers, Eve suffers a chronic extremely chronic problem of some idiot using python when C++ was needed, and not using paralelism from the beggining.

If EVE used multthreaded nodes, and clients, with 64 bit coding, gpu data crunching, and some proper developers (no offense to the ones that do their job like fozzie), the client and server could easily handle graphics like those of crysis 3 on space, with first person joysticks controls, collisions and probable 3 or 4 times more players without any lag, alas, its unrealistic to think CCP will ever give us that.


so for now all we are asking is for at least, get the feeling of a game from the past decade aesthetically wise (which IS NOT poly count or texture resolution dependant)
Daimon Kaiera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#343 - 2013-04-07 20:46:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Daimon Kaiera
I don't play Eve for the spaceships;
I don't play Eve for the people;
I don't play Eve for the huge, open world;
No, I play eve to see my character blossom into something beautiful and, to do that, there must be some new vanity items. I spend almost 99.99% of my time walking in station as I no longer "play" this game. I just sit, train, and stare at her face all day long.
Just look at her face - isn't she adorable?! Isn't she face-pinchingly adorable?!
I can only imagine what she must have looked like as a child. Pirate
How can you say no to this face? Just look at it.

LOOK AT IT.
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4963/sayno.png


Seriously, I want some new ****ing hair options because whilst the front of my character's head is absoloutly gorgeous, the back leaves something to be desired. Maybe new options for customising the front and back of your avatar's hair? Oh, that would be absoloutly delightful!

.... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--.
LoJ4X
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2013-04-09 13:32:50 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
LoJ4X wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
the OP seems to forget that not all of us can afford a new PC with the latest graph cards EACH year


I am running on a puny 250GTS with 1 GB ram and some 6 year old wares .
Its still running on high with everything maxed with 60 fps to spare.




BS >.>


My specs

Intel 2500K @4.5Ghz
128mb SSD
16GB DDR3
Nvidia 560ti max OC'ed
24" @ 1080P
+22" secondary screen (desktop)

Get into a scene with a lot of ships and translucent background effect and you can see and feel the frame rate drop under 30. BF3 however it runs maxed out @ 60.

Unless you have some magical fairy dusted 6 year old hardware going on there.


I take it you like 1080p and SSAO , I was running at 1024x768 with most of the stuff on the Nvidia recommended maximum settings back then , but thats beside the point.
I just got some shiny new wares .
660ti , i53570k , Z77 board with 8 gb of ddr31333hz on 7-7-7-21 .
Runs like a charm .
The thing is , upgrading a computer isn't that expensive when you think about the time-cost ratio .



Grats on the new setup \o/

Its not that i just had to have 1080P but more that i just wanted a 24" screen and the 560ti would have no problem doing that in any game (maybe except Crysis 3) But of course on a 1024x768 res you can run it fine on old H/w,

btw SSAO, eve has this ?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#345 - 2013-04-09 13:42:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Ager Agemo wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Nadia Fey wrote:
Nova Satar wrote:
If you want a longevity and engagement in a game you need content before aesthetics, so their priorities are just fine. Plus it seems silly even having to point it out but the graphics in EVE are great and just fine for the style of game.

Looking at your HW2 links... i dont care if it has a higher poly model count (/??) or a better thingy deterioration level, when you actually just use your eyes and look.... EVE looks a hundred times better.


we are kinda talking about the actual animation, aesthetics and destruction effects tbh :P
Not the poly counts What?
Drones in eve materalise out of thin air while those in HW2 actually comes out of a bay.

In Nexus , shield's bubble wrap actually flickers when hit , there is a clear distinction between munitions glancing off the shield or tanked by armor .

Ships in those games are actually designed to be scientifically sound and have a sense of scale .
The level of details and texture resolution scale upwards with ship size .

Combat wise , if HW is a MMORPG , they look and feel much more polished than the current iteration of EvE

And don't even get me started on Star Citizen


Yes, it's amazing the quantity and quality of graphical detail you can get in a SINGLE PLAYER GAME... or a game where the number of players interacting is severely limited.

That being said, I do believe there are some interesting things still to be done and likely will be done.



thats bullshit, in hw2 even being a "single player" game you could cordinate and control thousands of ships simultaneously that data had to be sincronized among 8 clients on large maps, you could very easily do something alike but reduce the thousands to lets say... 100 ships, 80 clients? but oh wait, even if its an N power problem where the load would go sick insane, homeworld 2 did that with ******* 1 core from the stone age at ultra low frequencies and without the support of data crunchings GPUs of modern technology.

problem is investment in new technologies and capable Code wise DEvelopers, Eve suffers a chronic extremely chronic problem of some idiot using python when C++ was needed, and not using paralelism from the beggining.

If EVE used multthreaded nodes, and clients, with 64 bit coding, gpu data crunching, and some proper developers (no offense to the ones that do their job like fozzie), the client and server could easily handle graphics like those of crysis 3 on space, with first person joysticks controls, collisions and probable 3 or 4 times more players without any lag, alas, its unrealistic to think CCP will ever give us that.


so for now all we are asking is for at least, get the feeling of a game from the past decade aesthetically wise (which IS NOT poly count or texture resolution dependant)

I've worked with the Homeworld and HW 2 graphics engine. In comparison to what EvE routinely handles it's a tinker toy.

Don't get me wrong, they are great games and I enjoyed them, but there really is no comparison.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#346 - 2013-04-09 13:45:51 UTC
LoJ4X wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
LoJ4X wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
the OP seems to forget that not all of us can afford a new PC with the latest graph cards EACH year


I am running on a puny 250GTS with 1 GB ram and some 6 year old wares .
Its still running on high with everything maxed with 60 fps to spare.




BS >.>


My specs

Intel 2500K @4.5Ghz
128mb SSD
16GB DDR3
Nvidia 560ti max OC'ed
24" @ 1080P
+22" secondary screen (desktop)

Get into a scene with a lot of ships and translucent background effect and you can see and feel the frame rate drop under 30. BF3 however it runs maxed out @ 60.

Unless you have some magical fairy dusted 6 year old hardware going on there.


I take it you like 1080p and SSAO , I was running at 1024x768 with most of the stuff on the Nvidia recommended maximum settings back then , but thats beside the point.
I just got some shiny new wares .
660ti , i53570k , Z77 board with 8 gb of ddr31333hz on 7-7-7-21 .
Runs like a charm .
The thing is , upgrading a computer isn't that expensive when you think about the time-cost ratio .



Grats on the new setup \o/

Its not that i just had to have 1080P but more that i just wanted a 24" screen and the 560ti would have no problem doing that in any game (maybe except Crysis 3) But of course on a 1024x768 res you can run it fine on old H/w,

btw SSAO, eve has this ?


NOooope
I don't think DX9 supports ambient occlusions

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Nadia Fey
Perkone
Caldari State
#347 - 2013-04-13 07:58:09 UTC
This just IN!
They are changing the lighting model and re-texturing for the V3 caps ...
Still nibbling on the little stuff

Between love and madness lies obsession. http://s17.postimg.org/5jvjjcp99/TTTT.jpg
dark heartt
#348 - 2013-04-13 08:05:02 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:

Homeworld 2 (UPDATED VIDEOS)


Now obviously, they are quite hideous for today's standards , but what they have which something EVE could learn is the variety.
We are just catching up to the graphical effects of a game from 9 years ago and in certain areas, such as the destruction mechanics ,gradual deterioration,aesthetics ,and surprisingly , model polycounts .....we are still lagging behind.
[quote=Baljos Arnjak]@.....
In HW2, the life of a ship had a certain continuity. When a ship was built or undocking, it wasn't just popped out, it was launched. When a ship dies, it does so in a fashion consistent with it's mass and purpose. Fighters left a streaking fire trail leading to an explosion, bigger ships had secondary explosions and slowly rolled out of control before a devastating final explosion. The sound effect made you feel like the ship was being ripped apart from the inside or that you were fighting for your life in a spacebourne fur ball. I think CCP could learn a lot about battle immersion from HW2


EDIT:

Example 2:
Now lets look at another game that slipped under most of our radars
Haegemonia
Nexus Jupiter Incident
I don't think I need to say more.
Those games didn't even need DX11.



Single player or small scale games. All arguments are invalid because of this.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#349 - 2013-04-13 15:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Ivy Romanova wrote:
NOooope
I don't think DX9 supports ambient occlusions
SSAO.
Screen Space Ambient Occlusion.

It's a software implementation. This would have worked back in the era of 386,
if the speed would have been there. The only reason this didn't happen,
was because nobody figured it out yet and it would have been too slow anyway.

The reason it's used NOW is because it took until Vladimir from Crytek figured it out,
which has nothing to do with the hardware or the Direct3D-version.
RenderToTexture is a "feature" implemented eons ago.

Most of you people aren't even qualified to post in this thread.

Did i read crap about a server handling graphics for the client ?
Yeah, that guy really shot the bird with his post. Moron.
Bellanea Rajanir
Obolka Kin
#350 - 2013-04-13 15:51:08 UTC
Daimon Kaiera wrote:

How can you say no to this face? Just look at it.

LOOK AT IT.
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4963/sayno.png


http://socialeyezer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Grumpy-Cat-Says-No.jpg

Ｉｔ ｗａｓ ａ ｄａｙ ｗｈｅｎ ｔｈｅ ｆｏｒｕｍ ｐｏｓｔ ｂｅｃａｍｅ ｓｅｎｔｉｅｎｔ
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#351 - 2013-04-13 16:02:16 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Ivy Romanova wrote:
NOooope
I don't think DX9 supports ambient occlusions
SSAO.
Screen Space Ambient Occlusion.

It's a software implementation. This would have worked back in the era of 386,
if the speed would have been there. The only reason this didn't happen,
was because nobody figured it out yet and it would have been too slow anyway.

The reason it's used NOW is because it took until Vladimir from Crytek figured it out,
which has nothing to do with the hardware or the Direct3D-version.
RenderToTexture is a "feature" implemented eons ago.

Most of you people aren't even qualified to post in this thread.

Did i read crap about a server handling graphics for the client ?
Yeah, that guy really shot the bird with his post. Moron.


Enlighten us

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Leper ofBacon
HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN
#352 - 2013-04-13 16:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Leper ofBacon
To address one point from the OP: This may be obvious but it gets brought up casually time and again. The 'bumpy submarine' ship mechanics are core to way objects interact with each other in the game. This is especially the case given how the control system works. Significant changes to this system could never be implemented and if they were would require so many other changes to the gameplay that you might as well just call it a different game IMO.