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It's time CCP......Put Arenas in the game.

First post
Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#161 - 2012-12-18 10:40:50 UTC
Zagdul wrote:


This being a niche game, it's attracted a lot of people who don't ever want any aspect of it to ever change or evolve. It's rather closed minded.


Its why EVE is the only MMO to still be growing after 10 years. We don't do what everyone else does and that is why EVE works.

SWG did not segregate off its PVP from the rest of the world and still all other pvp outside of restus died off. Arenas are simply not compatible with EVE and offer nothing good for us. If you want to hold an event then use the tools we have right now.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2012-12-18 10:55:44 UTC
Lord Wiggin wrote:
Put Arenas in the major hubs, allow players to arrange matches. Televise the match's in local and perhaps in CQ's. (I want my remote CCP)
Set up a betting system, with the house taking a cut. Part of the house cut goes to Isk prizes for the winner, based on a percentage of the take, so that the betting interest in the match directly affects the payout.
Isk sink....

I was never in favor of Arenas, I felt they would be game breaking, but after watching people attempt to manipulate the suspect system to get 1 vs 1 day after day, maybe it's time.
Outside of an Arena, there is no way to ensure a 1 vs 1. This solves the issue, provides passive entertainment for the couch potato/ship spinner types, as well as an isk sink.
With the number of gambling sites run by players, isn't it time CCP got in on the action?



If you want this, go out and make it.

THAT is the point of eve.

Find a place where you can organize 1 vs 1 fights (low? NPC 0.0? WH?)
Take bets on the people, then work out what you want to take as the cut.

this isn't WoW, CCP shouldn't be setting this up for you
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#163 - 2012-12-18 11:05:13 UTC


AKilla Sunday wrote:
It's funny how almost everyone against it hints at the fact they will not be able to pray on the weak and lame. Fact is you will still catch the same amount of PVE ships at gates or trough probing, same amount of industrial ships, nothing is going away if this is introduced, all the PVP that is sought after just by one side will still be there. The ones that roam low/null now will roam after such a feature is introduced just like someone above pointed out happened after RvB and such.



This is false. For instance I'm getting gasnked mostly. Is not this.
People adverse to this kind of idea are simply EvE players, experienced enough to know or to feel as this kind of restricted/protected so-called PvP is disruptive for the the single-shard sandbox model and is against EvE background, lore, settings and nature.

Having abstract random ideas is easy (PvP arenas, genial! none thought to it before) but one should keep in count the settings of the game, their history and the playerbase background.

As well as this continuosly demanding to rewrite/modify core mechanics to adapt to players too lazy to play the game as it is is becoming annoying and not productive at all.

Is like a guy going to a vegetarian restaurant and ordering a steak:

"Sorry Sir, we do not serve meat here, it's a vegetarian restaurant"
"oh, why not? I don't understand, why don't yuou serve meat? I want a steak, you should change"
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2012-12-18 11:05:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The idea isn't without merit, but would have to be done very carefully in a game such as Eve.

I would like to see us provide more and better support and tools for those players who are running or want to run their own tournaments and leagues. I think the Alliance Tournaments and New Eden Open have proved there's a place for sporting events in a game like Eve, and those kind of events are even better when they are player initiated and run.


I do agree that there is a problem with adding this in EvE but if you look at other great esports games they all have some kind of rated league system where all people can play every day and then the biggest ones meet up in the organized tournaments and those draw more audience because of the league that others do play in.

I think that if EvE is supposed to have a esports value then you need organized arenas that run all the time with a rating system that everyone can see.

Should we have esports in EvE tho? I'm not so sure its a good idea..
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#165 - 2012-12-18 11:33:02 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The idea isn't without merit, but would have to be done very carefully in a game such as Eve.

I would like to see us provide more and better support and tools for those players who are running or want to run their own tournaments and leagues. I think the Alliance Tournaments and New Eden Open have proved there's a place for sporting events in a game like Eve, and those kind of events are even better when they are player initiated and run.


I do agree that there is a problem with adding this in EvE but if you look at other great esports games they all have some kind of rated league system where all people can play every day and then the biggest ones meet up in the organized tournaments and those draw more audience because of the league that others do play in.

I think that if EvE is supposed to have a esports value then you need organized arenas that run all the time with a rating system that everyone can see.

Should we have esports in EvE tho? I'm not so sure its a good idea..


On another server it would be doable. But not in the "real" EvE I assume. But again, that would kinda "extract" the pvp activities out of the sandbox.

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance

Shajden
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-12-18 11:35:42 UTC
Luis Graca wrote:
If people actually want that they just need to create a chat channel to arrange fights, and i'm only say because i have no idea on how the RvB thing ended



RvB is alive and well. And usually a very good chance to find 1vs1. The fleet fights in there are usually balanced between the 2 fc's aswell so properly the closest thing you can come to arena.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#167 - 2012-12-18 11:44:01 UTC
Shajden wrote:
well. And usually a very good chance to find 1vs1. The fleet fights in there are usually balanced between the 2 fc's aswell so properly the closest thing you can come to arena.


You guys will be the first victims of an embended arena system.
Years of players driven gameplay and effort just trashed.
And then the rest.

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#168 - 2012-12-18 12:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
I don't really like this idea, if there was arena pvp in place I doubt I'd ever undock for solo roaming anymore.

I already switched to FW partly because it massively reduces the time necessary to find "fair" fights, if arenas would cut that time down to virtually zero I'd certainly make extensive use of them (at the expense of all other areas of the game).

I don't agree with Zagdul's argument that farmers would still lead to fights - farming in 0.0 is barely worthwhile in terms of risk vs reward, most 0.0 players I know earn their living in the safety of high-sec.

Disrupting an enemies' income is generally not the reason for taking out a roam, if you want to do that (and that is only really possible for terrible pets and renters as everyone else had to tick a "self-sufficient" box on application and doesn't rely on 0.0 for personal income) you use cloakies and covert drops.
Similarly you post a home defense fleet because you like pvp, not because you actually want to defend your income streams. Putting up a fight only attracts more roaming gangs to your territory whereas blueballing will usually make the roamers disperse after 5-15 minutes.

I think that the introduction of arenas would lead to a lot less roaming by solo players and small gangs.
It would also massively change the skills that are important in EVE pvp - currently the skills of finding a suitable target (reading the map, dscan, splitting enemies, assessing the strength of your targets, ...) are at least as important as the actual combat skills itself. That part of the game would mostly vanish if small-scale pvp was moved to arenas.

.

Leah Solo
Lag No Use
#169 - 2012-12-18 12:22:26 UTC
Zagdul wrote:

A gladiator arena of some form in EVE is missing. People need that level of completion, the ability to say "I'm the best".

Yes, for the ones that wish to track their pvp prowess, there is a thing called killboard. You can even api verify it.

Quote:
Lets face it, it's going to happen eventually as there are far more pros in CCP's benefit than cons.

No it's not..cause there are obviously more cons. As was being stated numerous times already.

Quote:
My friends who can't stand playing EVE watch the Alliance Tournaments that go on. They however don't like EVE

That's ok..I enjoy watching parkour on youtube, but don't enjoy practicing it. Not everything is for everyone. So..your point?

Quote:
because in order to get a fight, I need to make a fleet, go on a roam for 4 hours and MAYBE I'll get a kill. Lets face it, EVE is VERY slow paced. This is fine for the vet or for people who are here for the niche genre.

This is a dirty ignorant lie. And that repeating mantra really puts alot of people off pvp and roaming. Which is sad really, cause null and low provide plenty of good fights. Getting blobbed is an exception rather than rule. Also a need to have 100mil sp before you can do anything in pvp is another ignorant myth. But yeah..it's easier to shoot rats all day and whine.

Quote:
This being a niche game, it's attracted a lot of people who don't ever want any aspect of it to ever change or evolve. It's rather closed minded.

Seems to me you are the one with a closed mind. Everything you ask for in the infamous 'Arena' is already possible and can be realized by the existing game mechanics.

Heck there is even a completely separate server where you can have free arena like fights.
Ur235
Appetite 4 Destruction
#170 - 2012-12-18 12:27:48 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Ur235 wrote:
Stupid idea if people could enter arenas and fight instead of roaming to find fights then it would be the end of 90% of all roams because hardly anyone would bother going on a roam if they can get an instant fights in some arena, and space would become even emptier than it is now


You're wrong.

Where would the people get the ships that go into the arena from?



From JITA???

hmm

Aracimia Wolfe
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2012-12-18 12:47:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Theresa Lamont wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We have seen what happened in other MMOs. The PVP outside the arena died out in a matter of days because it is so much easier to get fights at the press of a button.


Highly possible. You have examples?

Restus in SWG. The moment it hit pvp everywhere else died.


Confirming that killing speeders on a spy was much easier there than anywhere else

Kill it with Fire!

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#172 - 2012-12-18 13:29:56 UTC
The point is there is absolutely no need for this mechanic. There are already plenty of ways to find pvp, but a few wow-mind carebear twonks want things to cater to them even more, they don't want to experience the many kinds of pvp and existing game areas there already are, they want something entirely un-EVE like that they're familiar with and which is a lot less effort and a lot more on their own terms (aka WOW).

And lets not forget the massive detrimental effect these stupid ideas would have on areas of space which are ALREADY underpopulated and under utilized

Summary: Idiotic idea, please ignore
fukier
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2012-12-18 15:07:27 UTC
this is my idea for this:
fukier wrote:
time to drag out the dead horse...

i wrote this two years ago but now with can flopping being dead this seems to be prudent...

So my proposal is setting up a contract system that is sanctioned by Concord that allows said parties to temp declare war on each other (time period max 30 min)… timmer starts once contract has been accepted...

The cost would be 5 million processing fee paid by each party… and there would be a betting price set by each party…

Each bet price would be negotiable between the parties and would not have to be the same amount.

The fights would run under war declaration rules but only the involved parties would be allowed to shoot each other or affect each other in any way… so that means any members of a gang or allies or corp mates would not be allowed to RR or shoot at either party at penalty of getting a suspect flag…

here is how you win

1. whomever does more total damage (this includes repped damage) to the other player wins only the isk at risk... (this is in the situation where niether player can kill the other)

2. if a player leaves the field of combat (250km radius from start of fight) then the other player wins the isk at risk...

3. which ever player is left alive after the fight gets salvage rights to the wreak and the isk at risk...


and yes observers can bet money one who will win... they can enter the contract by right clicking on involved chars and adding money to the pool...

At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#174 - 2012-12-18 15:24:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
If you ignore the OP itself, don't think of it as "WoW style arena", and instead think of it in "EVE terms" it's not a bad idea.


The EVE tournaments, but player driven, and tools that facilitate the ability to bet on the outcomes.

I wouldn't mind a system dedicated to providing arenas for people to schedule matches. A jita like system with beacons that we can warp to to watch a match, or have them broadcast on monitors in space or in the CQ.

Players in the system can schedule matches for random apponents or schedule a match against someone specifically.
And I mean SCHEDULE. As in, you schedule a match for X date, around Y time. You know, when you know you'll be on and you'd like to participate. If you have enough system the schedule should be managable and create "regional champions".

They could even have GM run fight events periodically where the best people in the various regions will fight for "the belt" tha they would hold for a period of time.

I'm sure that CCP is capable of developing the system tools needed to mimic something like BOXING.


WoW arenas are horrible.

EVE "arenas" could be frigging awesome.


OP should just delete his OP and then copy/ paste this post in it's place.

PS: The AT's would be the olympics of EVE, this would be the boxing.
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#175 - 2012-12-18 15:58:14 UTC
Lord Wiggin wrote:
Set up a betting system


I can see all sorts of new scams arising out of people gaming such a system. Other than that, this idea is without merit. If you want arenas, there are tons of other games that have them. Can't we have one, just one game that is different. Please?

No good deed goes unpunished

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#176 - 2012-12-18 16:11:49 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
Lord Wiggin wrote:
Set up a betting system


I can see all sorts of new scams arising out of people gaming such a system. Other than that, this idea is without merit. If you want arenas, there are tons of other games that have them. Can't we have one, just one game that is different. Please?

Or that would be one of the pluses of a betting system.

People being able to manipulate ods. Just because it would be a "bad act" doesn't make it a "bad idea", or "unfun".

There is no such thing as unmanipualted ods, the fact that they exist means that someone is already manipulating something. Gambling is a scam by it's very nature.


Stop thinking about WoW arenas, the OP is off his rocker. Instead think EVE and tools. Because that would be a great addition to the game.
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#177 - 2012-12-18 17:22:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dragon Outlaw
In WoT (world Of Tanks), arena PvP is pretty much alive and it does not kill PvP. You select the tank you wish to use, you hit BATTLE, and your fight starts in 30 seconds (15 vs 15). No need to roam for hours to get a fight. People saying that the arena concept would kill PvP in Eve are either wrong or hypocrits. Arenas would only "move" some of the PvP somewhere else. Maybe it would kill roams but who cares. We roam to get fights, not to fly as tourists. The rest of the PvP that would remain in the game would be more for fights that "matters". Just like in WoT where people fight on the World Map with their clan m8s to conquer or defend territory. Those type of fights happen constently. The Arena feature does not stop people to play on that map. In the contrary it helps it. Individual players use the arena to refine their skills. Clans use it to train their members for world map fights and elaborate strategies. We then go on that map to see how good we areBig smile and to conquer territory (and for Gold).

RvB? Hey, I been in there and had fun...until I was tired of T1 frig and destroyer fights. Often I had to stend down with a T1 cruiser. Battlecruisers seemed to raise complaints everytime someone would bring one on the field, and do not remember fights involving battleships. The RvB fun gets away quick when you have the skills to fly better ships and you are constently told not to fly them. In my opinion, RvB exist because their are no arena. So its disapearance would not botter me. So bring this arena (or simulator), make sure that their is still a cost to play in it (ISKs / fights or use your existing ships). I know a LOT of people would enjoy this.

The RMTers and adepts of cheap PvP can go cry to their moms if this is introduced. The though of reading all those rage posts excites me. Bring the arenas CCP.Big smile
Shylari Avada
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#178 - 2012-12-18 17:52:18 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
In WoT (world Of Tanks), arena PvP is pretty much alive and it does not kill PvP.


You mean a game, with one of two options (both being Arena PvP) is 'pretty much alive' with constant PvP?


Fascinating.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#179 - 2012-12-18 17:55:18 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
In WoT (world Of Tanks), arena PvP is pretty much alive and it does not kill PvP. You select the tank you wish to use, you hit BATTLE, and your fight starts in 30 seconds (15 vs 15). No need to roam for hours to get a fight. People saying that the arena concept would kill PvP in Eve are either wrong or hypocrits. Arenas would only "move" some of the PvP somewhere else. Maybe it would kill roams but who cares. We roam to get fights, not to fly as tourists. The rest of the PvP that would remain in the game would be more for fights that "matters". Just like in WoT where people fight on the World Map with their clan m8s to conquer or defend territory. Those type of fights happen constently. The Arena feature does not stop people to play on that map. In the contrary it helps it. Individual players use the arena to refine their skills. Clans use it to train their members for world map fights and elaborate strategies. We then go on that map to see how good we areBig smile and to conquer territory (and for Gold).

RvB? Hey, I been in there and had fun...until I was tired of T1 frig and destroyer fights. Often I had to stend down with a T1 cruiser. Battlecruisers seemed to raise complaints everytime someone would bring one on the field, and do not remember fights involving battleships. The RvB fun gets away quick when you have the skills to fly better ships and you are constently told not to fly them. In my opinion, RvB exist because their are no arena. So its disapearance would not botter me. So bring this arena (or simulator), make sure that their is still a cost to play in it (ISKs / fights or use your existing ships). I know a LOT of people would enjoy this.

The RMTers and adepts of cheap PvP can go cry to their moms if this is introduced. The though of reading all those rage posts excites me. Bring the arenas CCP.Big smile

As bad as the op.

Geez, I wonder why it works in WoT. I wonder if it's got something to do with the entire game beign built around that very gameplay mechanic, wtf?

Holy ****, you just wrote a small wall of text trying to compare a non persistant world game and "how it works" to EVE.
Are you not actually playing EVE
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#180 - 2012-12-18 18:01:39 UTC
You know, I might start an Arena. Setup 1v1 battles & stream it on to YouTube, allow people to bet on the participants. All I need is some trustworthy people to assist me with running it 23.5/7.

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