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It's time CCP......Put Arenas in the game.

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Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2012-12-18 09:36:55 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The idea isn't without merit, but would have to be done very carefully in a game such as Eve.

I would like to see us provide more and better support and tools for those players who are running or want to run their own tournaments and leagues. I think the Alliance Tournaments and New Eden Open have proved there's a place for sporting events in a game like Eve, and those kind of events are even better when they are player initiated and run.


As long as everything that is destroyed is from the live economy, I don't see a problem with it.

In fact, it would open up a new official career path, The Bookie.

And if the money is controlled by players, such an idea would be cast aside as another 'don't do - it's a scam' and be another broken/dead mechanic.


Quite possibly, but isn't that kind of the point to this game?

edit: people still use the contract system and for the most part, even with all the safeguards CCP has put in place, people still scam with it, people fall for them and it's still used.

To have developers waste time on a new game mechanic that never gets used? No thanks. I said earlier that there most likely is a list of must and must not do for 'arenas' and if they can't be followed there is absolutely zero point in wasting time when CCP can spend that time fixing lag... er, I mean other stuff.


I know you're trolling now.

Because, CCP would NEVER work on game mechanics we'd never use... ever.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#142 - 2012-12-18 09:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Zagdul wrote:


However, that 'Purple Gear" isn't destroyed when your match is over.


Dosn't matter, the same would happen here. Arenas will kill pvp here as it has done in every single other game it has been added to.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2012-12-18 09:42:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Zagdul wrote:


However, that 'Purple Gear" isn't destroyed when your match is over.


Dosn't matter, the same would happen here. Arenas will kill pvp here as it has done in every single other game it has been added to.


The point you still miss is that when ships go into the arena, they're purchased from the work of the people in the economy.

The other games you discuss, the gear is earned from tokens which are earned via 'grinding' which then gets segregated off into a PVP aspect of the game which is separate gear, mechanics and economy. The one single saving grace to this actually functioning in EVE where it would have a different effect is that all of those aspects share a symbiotic relationship in EVE.

If you blow up a ship in an Arena, some dude who built that ship and those mods made isk off it.

This is unique to EVE.

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#144 - 2012-12-18 09:45:15 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Zagdul wrote:


However, that 'Purple Gear" isn't destroyed when your match is over.


Dosn't matter, the same would happen here. Arenas will kill pvp here as it has done in every single other game it has been added to.


The point you still miss is that when ships go into the arena, they're purchased from the work of the people in the economy.

The other games you discuss, the gear is earned from tokens which are earned via 'grinding' which then gets segregated off into a PVP aspect of the game which is separate gear, mechanics and economy. The one single saving grace to this actually functioning in EVE where it would have a different effect is that all of those aspects share a symbiotic relationship in EVE.

If you blow up a ship in an Arena, some dude who built that ship and those mods made isk off it.

This is unique to EVE.


Another aspect of an EVE arena that would have to be in order for it to work. What goes in is 100% player made, no fake ships and stuff.
Ur235
Appetite 4 Destruction
#145 - 2012-12-18 09:48:45 UTC
Stupid idea if people could enter arenas and fight instead of roaming to find fights then it would be the end of 90% of all roams because hardly anyone would bother going on a roam if they can get an instant fights in some arena, and space would become even emptier than it is now

hmm
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2012-12-18 09:49:49 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Zagdul wrote:


However, that 'Purple Gear" isn't destroyed when your match is over.


Dosn't matter, the same would happen here. Arenas will kill pvp here as it has done in every single other game it has been added to.


The point you still miss is that when ships go into the arena, they're purchased from the work of the people in the economy.

The other games you discuss, the gear is earned from tokens which are earned via 'grinding' which then gets segregated off into a PVP aspect of the game which is separate gear, mechanics and economy. The one single saving grace to this actually functioning in EVE where it would have a different effect is that all of those aspects share a symbiotic relationship in EVE.

If you blow up a ship in an Arena, some dude who built that ship and those mods made isk off it.

This is unique to EVE.


Another aspect of an EVE arena that would have to be in order for it to work. What goes in is 100% player made, no fake ships and stuff.


Pretty much.

If they make this separate from the economy then it won't work.

Yes, there will be a lot of people complaining that "he can buy GTC to gain an advantage" etc etc etc... CCP jsut needs to take a line that you can have just as much as that person, they just get to participate more often.

That or win a few and make the money behind them so they fund themselves.

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Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2012-12-18 09:51:44 UTC
Ur235 wrote:
Stupid idea if people could enter arenas and fight instead of roaming to find fights then it would be the end of 90% of all roams because hardly anyone would bother going on a roam if they can get an instant fights in some arena, and space would become even emptier than it is now


You're wrong.

Where would the people get the ships that go into the arena from?

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Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2012-12-18 09:52:09 UTC
The big misconception that I've seen repeated throughout this thread is "risk-free".

There is absolute risk. We're a single shard, your name is out there to be shamed. It's not like you can transfer servers.

Your isk goes into these tournaments, if you don't win them then you dump a ton of isk into something that you lose money on to get nowhere.

However, if you're really good at it and play the meta game properly. You can win tournaments, make money and enjoy the e-peen factor.

The fact is, EVE needs a draw for players to come in and have a board to compete on. A gladiator arena would introduce so many facets to this sandbox which allow us to interact with that it is actually a feasible game concept for EVE.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#149 - 2012-12-18 09:53:21 UTC
Zagdul wrote:


This is unique to EVE.



So we end up with a slightly unique arena. Still doesnt change the outcome for the rest of the PVP out there, EVE arenas will kill it just as effectivly as the arenas in all those other games.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#150 - 2012-12-18 09:54:56 UTC
Zagdul wrote:


You're wrong.

Where would the people get the ships that go into the arena from?



Same place as they do now. From grinding up isk in pve and buying them from industrialists.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-12-18 09:56:01 UTC
Ur235 wrote:
Stupid idea if people could enter arenas and fight instead of roaming to find fights then it would be the end of 90% of all roams because hardly anyone would bother going on a roam if they can get an instant fights in some arena, and space would become even emptier than it is now

I understand what you are saying, I really do. What you need to realize that a vast majority of players are risk adverse if they have the means to do so. With so many ways to gather all the intel you need about anyone and anywhere in a matter of seconds, things results in stand offs and 'blue balls'.

Everyone wants to win and when fights already have a winner declared before the first bullet is fired; why bother engaging in the first place if you know you will lose?
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2012-12-18 09:56:31 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The idea isn't without merit, but would have to be done very carefully in a game such as Eve.

I would like to see us provide more and better support and tools for those players who are running or want to run their own tournaments and leagues. I think the Alliance Tournaments and New Eden Open have proved there's a place for sporting events in a game like Eve, and those kind of events are even better when they are player initiated and run.


I think the format needs changing though as in the ability to ban certain ships is hilarious thats a bit like Mike Tyson banning a heavy weight boxer from fighting him.

It should be simply made to be ship class Vs ship class or similar.

LETS GET IT OOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2012-12-18 09:58:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Zagdul wrote:


This is unique to EVE.



So we end up with a slightly unique arena. Still doesnt change the outcome for the rest of the PVP out there, EVE arenas will kill it just as effectivly as the arenas in all those other games.


Again, you're wrong.

The people in the Arenas need to get their ships from somewhere. Ambitious alliance/corps/The Wiz, harvest these materials to build these ships/mods/wtf ever. This puts people in space who don't care about the "arena" and continue on with their daily life like a good citizen of New Eden.

These alliance/people create targets for the game to go fight. In fact, if EVE were more competitive, it'd draw more targets to shoot at.

With this game being on a single shard, single economy it makes it unique from any other game out there. The effects of an arena on EVE cannot be compared to other games because there's no game out there who can currently provide a model for basis. You or I don't truly know what the effect would be on EVE, we can only speculate. However, if your speculation is based on how they've effected other games then you are being ignorant disparity between EVE and every other game out there.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#154 - 2012-12-18 10:03:29 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
The people in the Arenas need to get their ships from somewhere.


They get them from industialists like my alt. People who have no need to go blow up other people to build ships and mods.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#155 - 2012-12-18 10:03:46 UTC
I am strictly against a model that extracts PvP activities from the current sandbox all-in-one-universe.

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Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2012-12-18 10:03:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
baltec1 wrote:
Zagdul wrote:


You're wrong.

Where would the people get the ships that go into the arena from?



Same place as they do now. From grinding up isk in pve and buying them from industrialists.



Exactly... heh, you mean the targets who are currently widely available for all of us to shoot at? Who are the biggest draw for small gang engagements (home def etc.). You don't see this increasing by introducing more people who want to compete in EVE, thus drawing more industrialists to mine?

Opening up opportunities such as...

Suicide gankng the people harvesting the minerals (but with more targets).
The ratters saving up to get into the solo arena (but, more of these now).
The line member defending his alliance who controls moons, to feed the modules that go into the arena.

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Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2012-12-18 10:07:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
The people in the Arenas need to get their ships from somewhere.


They get them from industialists like my alt. People who have no need to go blow up other people to build ships and mods.


The point is: Your alt is in space, it's a valid target.

Just because 10 dudes are duking it out in an arena doesn't detract from the other... what 30k dudes logged in right now?

In fact, it draws people to EVE to potentially draw the 30k up to 40-50-6... etc. The more people on the server = more targets. Right now, EVE has no draw to bring in more targets.

Arena works for EVE. As it stands, it's Arenas or WiS for a 'big draw' to get people to play. Of those two, which would you rather have?

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#158 - 2012-12-18 10:12:21 UTC
Zagdul wrote:



Exactly... heh, you mean the targets who are currently widely available for all of us to shoot at? Who are the biggest draw for small gang engagements (home def etc.). You don't see this increasing by introducing more people who want to compete in EVE, thus drawing more industrialists to mine?

Opening up opportunities such as...

Suicide gankng the people harvesting the minerals (but with more targets).
The ratters saving up to get into the solo arena (but, more of these now).
The line member defending his alliance who controls moons, to feed the modules that go into the arena.


Firstly, I have an industry alt and in the past year of daily trips to and from jita I have been attacked exactly zero times.

Secondly, you do not find all that many industrial targets out in null or lowsec

And thirdly, when we go roaming we want a fight, not ratters hiding in their POS.

Arenas will destroy the pvp out there because it is so much easyer to push a button to get action rather than hunting for it. The more people that use it the less you will find inthe rest of EVE which means more will join the arena and we quickly end up with the arena and nothing else.

It has happened every single time in every game that hasadded an arena. I do not want that to happen here too.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#159 - 2012-12-18 10:16:33 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
As it stands, it's Arenas or WiS for a 'big draw' to get people to play. Of those two, which would you rather have?


Neither. I will take what CCP are giving us right now with ship rebalances, bounty system, FW and the upcoming POS and moon goo changes.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2012-12-18 10:33:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Zagdul wrote:



Exactly... heh, you mean the targets who are currently widely available for all of us to shoot at? Who are the biggest draw for small gang engagements (home def etc.). You don't see this increasing by introducing more people who want to compete in EVE, thus drawing more industrialists to mine?

Opening up opportunities such as...

Suicide gankng the people harvesting the minerals (but with more targets).
The ratters saving up to get into the solo arena (but, more of these now).
The line member defending his alliance who controls moons, to feed the modules that go into the arena.


Firstly, I have an industry alt and in the past year of daily trips to and from jita I have been attacked exactly zero times.

Secondly, you do not find all that many industrial targets out in null or lowsec

And thirdly, when we go roaming we want a fight, not ratters hiding in their POS.

Arenas will destroy the pvp out there because it is so much easyer to push a button to get action rather than hunting for it. The more people that use it the less you will find inthe rest of EVE which means more will join the arena and we quickly end up with the arena and nothing else.

It has happened every single time in every game that hasadded an arena. I do not want that to happen here too.

In EVE, the battle grounds are where you pick a region, the 'world pvp' is when you undock. A gladiator arena of some form in EVE is missing. People need that level of completion, the ability to say "I'm the best".

Lets face it, it's going to happen eventually as there are far more pros in CCP's benefit than cons. Instead of rejecting the idea of an arena, develop it so it would work. For example, an arena you log in and queue up for would probably be bad.

On the other hand, if I could schedule a day next week for my team to go play a match that is publicized in a controlled arena with CCP officiators governing the match, I see an environment worthy of EVE online. Something that isn't like other Arenas.

Other games segregated off the PVP completely which killed the 'world pvp'. It had nothing to do with Arenas. When things like instanced PVP battlegrounds such as the ones in WOW, or the other billion clones who copied did it, they did it wrong simply on the segregation concept.
Think about what the effect was of the Arena on those games. Two things I can see that caused the decline in all other PVP in other games were:

1. No destructible consumables in the arena.
This KILLED other games because the people who ply the PVE aspects of the game had no reason to continue on in the regular 'world'. There was no reason for them to leave a city. PVE'ers logged in, chatted, go to 'raid/fleet/wtf ever" then logged out. PVP, sat in a city and never left while waiting for their queue window to pop up.

2. Multiple Servers
With EVE being a single shard, if you win, you're the winner for the whole game, not just a realm. This gives people bragging rights, e-peen factor and competition that EVE is obviously wanting due to the sheer popularity of the Alliance Tournament.



My friends who can't stand playing EVE watch the Alliance Tournaments that go on. They however don't like EVE because in order to get a fight, I need to make a fleet, go on a roam for 4 hours and MAYBE I'll get a kill. Lets face it, EVE is VERY slow paced. This is fine for the vet or for people who are here for the niche genre.

This being a niche game, it's attracted a lot of people who don't ever want any aspect of it to ever change or evolve. It's rather closed minded.

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