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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#1921 - 2013-01-02 08:44:29 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
you nullseccers are so entitled

Can I be entitled... to you? <3


i never trust GOON
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1922 - 2013-01-02 08:46:24 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
I don’t really see the point of whining in the forums about the lack of facilities.


It works for the denizens of highsec & a lot quicker too. They only need to complain for 6 months to get the change they desire. We need to complain for years before the idea is considered.


They take 6 months because their ideas are stupid, yours take longer because your ideas are so partisan even CCP realizes they are.

They benefit you, therefore they're wrong.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1923 - 2013-01-02 08:51:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Making it possible (and advantageous from both an alliance and industrialist standpoint) to mine and build ships used by nullsec actually in nullsec would end the stigma against industrial corps in 0.0, for one. As it stands they're tolerated at best, abused at worst.


Inconvenience or even downright saying "no" to somebody asking to join as industrial would be a sensible reaction.

"Stigma" towards industrialists who would have wanted to risk and move in null, instead, is exactly part of what I call ~ideology~ and tells much more about a sh!t mentality and attitude than about deficiencies in the game and is a big part of the null sec "problem".
Hm yes, tens of thousands of players from everywhere on the planet from countless backgrounds all share an unspoken ideology and attitude that has nothing to do with the reality of the game they're playing in. Interesting theory of yours, do the gate flashes in 0.0 contain subliminal messaging? Couldn't be that there's some truth to the claim that letting a flood of hungry industrialists into your alliance is bad for it, right? (NC)

A long, long time ago, there were many alliances that welcomed people who wanted to take risks by using their alliances' space to build up their systems and produce their goods locally in null. They were devoured long ago by alliances that gathered up lots of raw resources from 0.0 and traded them in highsec for completed product through supply chains, due to inherent inferiority in the design of 0.0 to deliver secondary manufacturing-based economy. The lesson learned is that nullsec economy is centered around raw resource extraction - if you're not contributing towards the securing of those resources (whether through hired gun or contributing ISK/resources/supers), your service belongs in highsec where you can mine ice safe and autopilot freighter your mins more efficiently under CONCORD protection. Anyone who disagrees with this conclusion is long dead at the hands of those whp did. If you aren't contributing in real ways, and the services you provide can just as easily be provided in highsec, is it any wonder that you didn't feel 'valued' in your experience as a nullsec industrialist?

To me it just seems illogical that you'd be angry at the alliances that have emphatically proven (through sheer survival of the fittest) that a homebuilt null industry is a non-viable alliance model, and not the mechanics that make it that way.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1924 - 2013-01-02 08:52:20 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
"Stigma" towards industrialists who would have wanted to risk and move in null, instead, is exactly part of what I call ~ideology~ and tells much more about a sh!t mentality and attitude than about deficiencies in the game and is a big part of the null sec "problem".

You see, when I was a newbie, and very :shobon: I thought, wow, if I was to make draeks here, then I can sell them and make money and be even more happy when boat welps us instead of shooting a structure.

Wiser and more veteran goons informed that that, alas, it would be better for me to make an alt and do it in highsec.
To which I said: "Oh. Do we make anything there?"
"Supercapitals. We proliferate supercapitals like no body's business and make caps when we're not cranking out coffins that can't dock."


You see when I was a newbie and went to titan bridge into null in a T1 fit rupture I had no fear to lose my 2M ship or min-max-ISK-is-my-god complexes.
I got there and asked to setup a POS and do my crap, with no care if it was more or less expensive than hi sec, without crying on the forums like a squeling pig, nothing.

Let's see why you won't allow small players to do their stuff, after all it's their call whether it's expensive for them or not.

Oh wait, your kind people will kill them under way or will tell them they are spies building titans to sell to -A-.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1925 - 2013-01-02 08:55:28 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Yes, in fact diminishing returns should be put both in hi sec to prevent "newbies" making 3500 maelstrom at a time but also in null sec to prevent alliances from taking more than say 5% of the whole space.

So why do you draw the line there?

When 20,000 players work together, this is like a newbie making 3500 maelstroms


There are other MMOs that allow 3-4 k players on their shards, guess why they have mechanics in place to avoid 500-600 players being in the same organization? Because unlike RL, there's no 6 billion other guys to adsorb and (even passively) survive those 500-600 but just 3-4 k and those 500-600 would turn that shard into crap.

EVE clearly has superior hardware, to allow 2000 pilots to all be shooting at one another in the same system !

All hail EVE server hardware and software, the way of the future !


Shooting is the least concern. The political and economical leverage such a large % of people all working in one organization can cause great damage to a server. In other games 2-3 *not allied* guilds may heavily affect the whole server and they are less powerful, with less freedom (no sandbox there) than what an EvE power bloc is.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1926 - 2013-01-02 08:55:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
"Stigma" towards industrialists who would have wanted to risk and move in null, instead, is exactly part of what I call ~ideology~ and tells much more about a sh!t mentality and attitude than about deficiencies in the game and is a big part of the null sec "problem".

You see, when I was a newbie, and very :shobon: I thought, wow, if I was to make draeks here, then I can sell them and make money and be even more happy when boat welps us instead of shooting a structure.

Wiser and more veteran goons informed that that, alas, it would be better for me to make an alt and do it in highsec.
To which I said: "Oh. Do we make anything there?"
"Supercapitals. We proliferate supercapitals like no body's business and make caps when we're not cranking out coffins that can't dock."


You see when I was a newbie and went to titan bridge into null in a T1 fit rupture I had no fear to lose my 2M ship or min-max-ISK-is-my-god complexes.
I got there and asked to setup a POS and do my crap, with no care if it was more or less expensive than hi sec, without crying on the forums like a squeling pig, nothing.

Let's see why you won't allow small players to do their stuff, after all it's their call whether it's expensive for them or not.

Oh wait, your kind people will kill them under way or will tell them they are spies building titans to sell to -A-.

Honestly? As a newbie I definitely couldn't afford to set up a POS for myself. Newbies can help fuel jump bridges though, however usually GSOL prefers they actually -have fun-.

On an alliance scale, the few station slots are best used to make capital ship components. Setting up a pos to manufacture isn't worth it. But never fear, they taught me how to rat, and buy in Jita 4-4, and then get the Jumpfreighter person to ship it down !

Nullsec industry !


I also lost tons of T1 frigates. Mostly rifters. They cost even less than 1 million isk. They were given to me :shobon: and then the alliance reimbursements let me lose blackbirds the whole day.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1927 - 2013-01-02 08:57:35 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
I don’t really see the point of whining in the forums about the lack of facilities.


It works for the denizens of highsec & a lot quicker too. They only need to complain for 6 months to get the change they desire. We need to complain for years before the idea is considered.


They take 6 months because their ideas are stupid, yours take longer because your ideas are so partisan even CCP realizes they are.

They benefit you, therefore they're wrong.


I let the developers plan their game, I guess I am doing something wrong.

Should jump in the forums and create 100000000000000 photocopy cry threads to force them change the game ASAP, of course in my favor!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1928 - 2013-01-02 08:58:25 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Shooting is the least concern. The political and economical leverage such a large % of people all working in one organization can cause great damage to a server. In other games 2-3 *not allied* guilds may heavily affect the whole server and they are less powerful, with less freedom (no sandbox there) than what an EvE power bloc is.

DESTROY HAVING FRIENDS in an MMO garrrrgggghhhh they have more friends than me, nerf having friends.

It's ok, you can stay in highsec, were NPCs will protect you. Plus, the game is all broken, you can do all the industrial and building you want there. EVE ONLINE !!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1929 - 2013-01-02 08:59:30 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
A long, long time ago, there were many alliances that welcomed people who wanted to take risks by using their alliances' space to build up their systems and produce their goods locally in null. They were devoured long ago by alliances that gathered up lots of raw resources from 0.0 and traded them in highsec for completed product through supply chains, due to inherent inferiority in the design of 0.0 to deliver secondary manufacturing-based economy. The lesson learned is that nullsec economy is centered around raw resource extraction - if you're not contributing towards the securing of those resources (whether through hired gun or contributing ISK/resources/supers), your service belongs in highsec where you can mine ice safe and autopilot freighter your mins more efficiently under CONCORD protection. Anyone who disagrees with this conclusion is long dead at the hands of those whp did. If you aren't contributing in real ways, and the services you provide can just as easily be provided in highsec, is it any wonder that you didn't feel 'valued' in your experience as a nullsec industrialist?

To me it just seems illogical that you'd be angry at the alliances that have emphatically proven (through sheer survival of the fittest) that a homebuilt null industry is a non-viable alliance model, and not the mechanics that make it that way.

EVE is cold and harsh. It's a pity that the way you'd expect things to be done is the worst because, hey, highsec is JUST THAT GOOD.

Highsec best sec.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1930 - 2013-01-02 09:00:16 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
A long, long time ago, there were many alliances that welcomed people who wanted to take risks by using their alliances' space to build up their systems and produce their goods locally in null. They were devoured long ago by alliances that gathered up lots of raw resources from 0.0 and traded them in highsec for completed product through supply chains, due to inherent inferiority in the design of 0.0 to deliver secondary manufacturing-based economy. The lesson learned is that nullsec economy is centered around raw resource extraction - if you're not contributing towards the securing of those resources (whether through hired gun or contributing ISK/resources/supers), your service belongs in highsec where you can mine ice safe and autopilot freighter your mins more efficiently under CONCORD protection. Anyone who disagrees with this conclusion is long dead at the hands of those whp did. If you aren't contributing in real ways, and the services you provide can just as easily be provided in highsec, is it any wonder that you didn't feel 'valued' in your experience as a nullsec industrialist?

To me it just seems illogical that you'd be angry at the alliances that have emphatically proven (through sheer survival of the fittest) that a homebuilt null industry is a non-viable alliance model, and not the mechanics that make it that way.


I suggest you re-read my post.

Never in that post I stated it's convenient or even good to "let the industrialist come", I just mentioned at the *stigma*, which is a different shade of approach towards the same guy.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1931 - 2013-01-02 09:00:41 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I let the developers plan their game, I guess I am doing something wrong.

Should jump in the forums and create 100000000000000 photocopy cry threads to force them change the game ASAP, of course in my favor!

You're absolutely right, this entire time I've been holding CCP Soundwave's pet cat hostage, the ransom being massive buffs to nullsec and nerfs to highsec.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frying Doom
#1932 - 2013-01-02 09:01:51 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
I don’t really see the point of whining in the forums about the lack of facilities.


It works for the denizens of highsec & a lot quicker too. They only need to complain for 6 months to get the change they desire. We need to complain for years before the idea is considered.


They take 6 months because their ideas are stupid, yours take longer because your ideas are so partisan even CCP realizes they are.

They benefit you, therefore they're wrong.


I let the developers plan their game, I guess I am doing something wrong.

Should jump in the forums and create 100000000000000 photocopy cry threads to force them change the game ASAP, of course in my favor!

You mean like how they did a wonderful job of updating exhumers and mining barges over the years, all by them selves?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1933 - 2013-01-02 09:03:13 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I let the developers plan their game, I guess I am doing something wrong.

Should jump in the forums and create 100000000000000 photocopy cry threads to force them change the game ASAP, of course in my favor!

You mean like how they did a wonderful job of updating exhumers and mining barges over the years, all by them selves?

It reduced ganking didn't it? A little more safety in highsec is exactly the kind of reward miners deserve. And more AFKability.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1934 - 2013-01-02 09:03:39 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:


On an alliance scale, the few station slots are best used to make capital ship components. Setting up a pos to manufacture isn't worth it. But never fear, they taught me how to rat, and buy in Jita 4-4, and then get the Jumpfreighter person to ship it down !

Nullsec industry !


It's fair for *the player* to learn if manufacturing or researching in null sec is worth it or not (for me it was, guess what, maybe it has to do with the fact I do lots of money always and everywhere). Not for some high brass kick in the jewels to impose their wisdom on you.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1935 - 2013-01-02 09:05:03 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

You mean like how they did a wonderful job of updating exhumers and mining barges over the years, all by them selves?


Hey I debunked that Baltec1 invented fallacy 3-4 times in the last weeks, you may as well find those references instead of going cassette playback mode.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1936 - 2013-01-02 09:05:32 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I let the developers plan their game, I guess I am doing something wrong.

Should jump in the forums and create 100000000000000 photocopy cry threads to force them change the game ASAP, of course in my favor!

You're absolutely right, this entire time I've been holding CCP Soundwave's pet cat hostage, the ransom being massive buffs to nullsec and nerfs to highsec.

I think you should just end it, clearly the cat isn't getting you anything .

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1937 - 2013-01-02 09:07:35 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I let the developers plan their game, I guess I am doing something wrong.

Should jump in the forums and create 100000000000000 photocopy cry threads to force them change the game ASAP, of course in my favor!

You're absolutely right, this entire time I've been holding CCP Soundwave's pet cat hostage, the ransom being massive buffs to nullsec and nerfs to highsec.


Where did I mention any kind of causation between creating 100000000000000 photocopy cry threads and actually getting any kind of effect off them?

In fact you are wasting your time, if CCP EVER makes a buff or nerf based on forums claims they would be falling down to Blizzard levels.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Frying Doom
#1938 - 2013-01-02 09:07:46 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I let the developers plan their game, I guess I am doing something wrong.

Should jump in the forums and create 100000000000000 photocopy cry threads to force them change the game ASAP, of course in my favor!

You mean like how they did a wonderful job of updating exhumers and mining barges over the years, all by them selves?

It reduced ganking didn't it? A little more safety in highsec is exactly the kind of reward miners deserve. And more AFKability.

I personally love the changes that happened after a hell of a lot of players bitched on the forums.

Now I have a choice high yield and weak tank, medium tank and the ability to afk a bit or massive tank and a yield lower than a covetor.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1939 - 2013-01-02 09:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Frying Doom wrote:
I personally love the changes that happened after a hell of a lot of players bitched on the forums.

Now I have a choice high yield and weak tank, medium tank and the ability to afk a bit or massive tank and a yield lower than a covetor.

Yep, look at all the different Mackinaws in the belts.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1940 - 2013-01-02 09:15:21 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I personally love the changes that happened after a hell of a lot of players bitched on the forums.

Now I have a choice high yield and weak tank, medium tank and the ability to afk a bit or massive tank and a yield lower than a covetor.

Yep, look at all the different Mackinaws in the belts.


A really bad change, I posted against it for weeks yet they did it.
I'll even have to double the donation to Helicity Boson if s/he makes the next Hulkageddon just to help about it.


(You know, me being hi sec "intellectual" and stuff).


At least, I made a gob of money of that patch, but that's really the only good thing I can tell about it apart from adding 1 low slot to 1 ship.

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