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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Garou Carew
Doomheim
#1861 - 2013-01-02 04:50:35 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
The problem for Null has no relation to the game mechanics and every relation to the mentality of the individuals that populate and more specifically control it. I’ve read these threads for sometime now and as far as I can discern the problems in Null are in the main attributable to the sorry arsed egomaniacs that control it, if they collectively managed their territories effectively they would be developing strategies encouraging Hi Sec dwellers to settle and develop industry in their space rather than continuously whine about how unfair life is. If the retards that control the mega alliances spent half as much effort to develop their fiefdoms as they put into puerile campaigns like Hulkaggedon they could improve Null considerably, this seems to be beyond the capabilities of their pathetic intellects though. In essence if Null sec characters want to see changes in the game they need to realise that there is effectively nothing that the developers can do to improve their lot until they decide to do something themselves.


I guess you just didn't read one of the many times it was pointed out how few factory slots player built outposts have. The best manufacturing outpost (Amarr) can provide services for 2 or 3 serious industry characters. Maybe 6 characters if they are "casual", and don't have the Adv Mass Production skill. Or how a single system, like Nonni, often has more factory and research slots than entire nullsec regions. Or how the issues with POS, from module abilities to permissions, keep them from being used to make up for the shortcomings of the poor outpost services.


I’ve read it, I just don’t see it as an insurmountable problem. The issue with POS permissions are restricting and manufacturing outposts are set up that way for a reason [they are outposts], all I see are complaints but there is a vast wealth in null and it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1862 - 2013-01-02 04:54:16 UTC
Garou Carew wrote:

I’ve read it, I just don’t see it as an insurmountable problem. The issue with POS permissions are restricting and manufacturing outposts are set up that way for a reason [they are outposts], all I see are complaints but there is a vast wealth in null and it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


You don't see an issue with player built structures being worse than NPC given facilities. You could go a couple jumps away from that trade hub and find plenty of open slots, the wonders of highsec.

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Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1863 - 2013-01-02 04:55:24 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but what are everyone's thoughts on industry in NPC null space and the stations there?

*popcorn*

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Great_Wildlands#stations

Let me clarify. How would the effectiveness of doing industry in NPC null space compare to other types of space in the game.


The second worst, just behind w-space.

Very few stations and no sov POS fuel bonus.

NPC nullsec could have potential for trading hubs, but it has no industrial benefits, bonuses, or upgrades.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1864 - 2013-01-02 04:56:46 UTC
Garou Carew wrote:
it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


We don't want the manufacturing security of highsec in nullsec, that would be utterly pointless. We want to be able to upgrade our nullsec industry capabilites for all the time, effort & isk we sink in to them.

If you're having trouble finding available slots in highsec, you need to move around.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1865 - 2013-01-02 04:57:22 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
You could go a couple jumps away from that trade hub and find plenty of open slots, the wonders of highsec.

This is truth. I have never had more than a one hour wait five jumps from a trade hub, even in a busy system, and most times I can do all my builds in one go without a wait.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Garou Carew
Doomheim
#1866 - 2013-01-02 05:03:12 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:

I’ve read it, I just don’t see it as an insurmountable problem. The issue with POS permissions are restricting and manufacturing outposts are set up that way for a reason [they are outposts], all I see are complaints but there is a vast wealth in null and it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


You don't see an issue with player built structures being worse than NPC given facilities. You could go a couple jumps away from that trade hub and find plenty of open slots, the wonders of highsec.



No I don't really have an issue with with player built structures, working as intended. As to the vacant slots yes you can find them [when you can find them] but you pay a premium for them unless you have standings, in many cases they are more inefficient than low sec POS, material loss is high if your refining and research times are worse than in a POS.

Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1867 - 2013-01-02 05:03:13 UTC
Garou Carew wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
The problem for Null has no relation to the game mechanics and every relation to the mentality of the individuals that populate and more specifically control it. I’ve read these threads for sometime now and as far as I can discern the problems in Null are in the main attributable to the sorry arsed egomaniacs that control it, if they collectively managed their territories effectively they would be developing strategies encouraging Hi Sec dwellers to settle and develop industry in their space rather than continuously whine about how unfair life is. If the retards that control the mega alliances spent half as much effort to develop their fiefdoms as they put into puerile campaigns like Hulkaggedon they could improve Null considerably, this seems to be beyond the capabilities of their pathetic intellects though. In essence if Null sec characters want to see changes in the game they need to realise that there is effectively nothing that the developers can do to improve their lot until they decide to do something themselves.


I guess you just didn't read one of the many times it was pointed out how few factory slots player built outposts have. The best manufacturing outpost (Amarr) can provide services for 2 or 3 serious industry characters. Maybe 6 characters if they are "casual", and don't have the Adv Mass Production skill. Or how a single system, like Nonni, often has more factory and research slots than entire nullsec regions. Or how the issues with POS, from module abilities to permissions, keep them from being used to make up for the shortcomings of the poor outpost services.


I’ve read it, I just don’t see it as an insurmountable problem. The issue with POS permissions are restricting and manufacturing outposts are set up that way for a reason [they are outposts], all I see are complaints but there is a vast wealth in null and it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


Oh, there are plenty of slots in highsec. You may have to wait a week or 2 if you are lazy and want to do it near a trade hub. Research slots are often tied up for longer, but than again, it is in the safety of a station that you can never be shut out of. The ease and safety of highsec is why those stations always have their research slots with a long wait.

In other words, it is so good that people will keep using them even if it takes a month of waiting.
Frying Doom
#1868 - 2013-01-02 05:05:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Garou Carew wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
The problem for Null has no relation to the game mechanics and every relation to the mentality of the individuals that populate and more specifically control it. I’ve read these threads for sometime now and as far as I can discern the problems in Null are in the main attributable to the sorry arsed egomaniacs that control it, if they collectively managed their territories effectively they would be developing strategies encouraging Hi Sec dwellers to settle and develop industry in their space rather than continuously whine about how unfair life is. If the retards that control the mega alliances spent half as much effort to develop their fiefdoms as they put into puerile campaigns like Hulkaggedon they could improve Null considerably, this seems to be beyond the capabilities of their pathetic intellects though. In essence if Null sec characters want to see changes in the game they need to realise that there is effectively nothing that the developers can do to improve their lot until they decide to do something themselves.


I guess you just didn't read one of the many times it was pointed out how few factory slots player built outposts have. The best manufacturing outpost (Amarr) can provide services for 2 or 3 serious industry characters. Maybe 6 characters if they are "casual", and don't have the Adv Mass Production skill. Or how a single system, like Nonni, often has more factory and research slots than entire nullsec regions. Or how the issues with POS, from module abilities to permissions, keep them from being used to make up for the shortcomings of the poor outpost services.


I’ve read it, I just don’t see it as an insurmountable problem. The issue with POS permissions are restricting and manufacturing outposts are set up that way for a reason [they are outposts], all I see are complaints but there is a vast wealth in null and it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.

Actually as an idustrialist I have 2 characters with high standings so that I can refine anywhere and put up a POS in any 0.7 or below system in any space.

For me while I would like to see the minerals in Spodmium increased, trit and pyerite increased in -0.0 systems and Sov based on system use that really is it for Null. What I personally would like to see is that those people in Hi-sec and eslewhere have an advantage in Cost as well as time for those people who decide they want a POS for them selves.

Research in Hi is difficult with slots normally being held up for 30+ days but that is the only bonus for a POS is time and then its 30 days and a 25% increase in ME not great. As to manufacturing I am not sure where you live but for the last 2 years every where I have lived most of the slots are manufacture NOW.

Yes part of what is proposed makes -0.0 space more profitable but the biggest changes proposed are not Null related they are NPC to Player owned related.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1869 - 2013-01-02 05:08:24 UTC
Garou Carew wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:

I’ve read it, I just don’t see it as an insurmountable problem. The issue with POS permissions are restricting and manufacturing outposts are set up that way for a reason [they are outposts], all I see are complaints but there is a vast wealth in null and it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


You don't see an issue with player built structures being worse than NPC given facilities. You could go a couple jumps away from that trade hub and find plenty of open slots, the wonders of highsec.



No I don't really have an issue with with player built structures, working as intended. As to the vacant slots yes you can find them [when you can find them] but you pay a premium for them unless you have standings, in many cases they are more inefficient than low sec POS, material loss is high if your refining and research times are worse than in a POS.



Auto piloting courrier mission for standings is hard.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1870 - 2013-01-02 05:10:32 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


We don't want the manufacturing security of highsec in nullsec, that would be utterly pointless. We want to be able to upgrade our nullsec industry capabilites for all the time, effort & isk we sink in to them.

If you're having trouble finding available slots in highsec, you need to move around.


It's hard to belive people still think you want the security of high sec...
Frying Doom
#1871 - 2013-01-02 05:11:13 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:

I’ve read it, I just don’t see it as an insurmountable problem. The issue with POS permissions are restricting and manufacturing outposts are set up that way for a reason [they are outposts], all I see are complaints but there is a vast wealth in null and it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


You don't see an issue with player built structures being worse than NPC given facilities. You could go a couple jumps away from that trade hub and find plenty of open slots, the wonders of highsec.



No I don't really have an issue with with player built structures, working as intended. As to the vacant slots yes you can find them [when you can find them] but you pay a premium for them unless you have standings, in many cases they are more inefficient than low sec POS, material loss is high if your refining and research times are worse than in a POS.



Auto piloting courrier mission for standings is hard.

I will confess that is how I did it, accepted only hi-sec missions chucked on auto pilot and went away. Normally to cook or watch a movie.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#1872 - 2013-01-02 05:12:39 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


We don't want the manufacturing security of highsec in nullsec, that would be utterly pointless. We want to be able to upgrade our nullsec industry capabilites for all the time, effort & isk we sink in to them.

If you're having trouble finding available slots in highsec, you need to move around.


It's hard to belive people still think you want the security of high sec...

I t would be nice to pop out of a Wh into Null see Retrievers on D-scan pop some probes and go hunting.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Garou Carew
Doomheim
#1873 - 2013-01-02 05:16:34 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


We don't want the manufacturing security of highsec in nullsec, that would be utterly pointless. We want to be able to upgrade our nullsec industry capabilites for all the time, effort & isk we sink in to them.

If you're having trouble finding available slots in highsec, you need to move around.



I can agree with being able to upgrade facilities but not to the same capacity or efficiency as Hi Sec facilities, there is time and effort but also immense rewards and I don’t really see the point of whining in the forums about the lack of facilities.

As to moving I’m a tad old and several injuries sort of inhibit my getting around so I prefer to limit my travels to jump in, jump out of the systems that I hide my POS in, it makes for easy travel and I miss the locals at those annoying gate camps, I also like to bubble the gates and have a hictor on hand before I jump it may not help but it eases my tired old mind.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1874 - 2013-01-02 05:18:38 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but what are everyone's thoughts on industry in NPC null space and the stations there?

*popcorn*

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Great_Wildlands#stations

Let me clarify. How would the effectiveness of doing industry in NPC null space compare to other types of space in the game.


The second worst, just behind w-space.

Very few stations and no sov POS fuel bonus.

NPC nullsec could have potential for trading hubs, but it has no industrial benefits, bonuses, or upgrades.

I mean after an industrial revamp. Where would industry in NPC null space rate? Technically you have five types of space. High, low, player null, NPC null and unknown space.
Garou Carew
Doomheim
#1875 - 2013-01-02 05:19:23 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:

I’ve read it, I just don’t see it as an insurmountable problem. The issue with POS permissions are restricting and manufacturing outposts are set up that way for a reason [they are outposts], all I see are complaints but there is a vast wealth in null and it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


You don't see an issue with player built structures being worse than NPC given facilities. You could go a couple jumps away from that trade hub and find plenty of open slots, the wonders of highsec.



No I don't really have an issue with with player built structures, working as intended. As to the vacant slots yes you can find them [when you can find them] but you pay a premium for them unless you have standings, in many cases they are more inefficient than low sec POS, material loss is high if your refining and research times are worse than in a POS.



Auto piloting courrier mission for standings is hard.

I will confess that is how I did it, accepted only hi-sec missions chucked on auto pilot and went away. Normally to cook or watch a movie.


I couldn’t do it, it would be as boring as batshit worse than Ice mining.
Frying Doom
#1876 - 2013-01-02 05:22:00 UTC
Garou Carew wrote:

I couldn’t do it, it would be as boring as batshit worse than Ice mining.

I just did it during times that I knew I had other things to do, and personally I prefer Ice mining to mission running.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1877 - 2013-01-02 05:22:42 UTC
Garou Carew wrote:
I don’t really see the point of whining in the forums about the lack of facilities.


It works for the denizens of highsec & a lot quicker too. They only need to complain for 6 months to get the change they desire. We need to complain for years before the idea is considered.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Frying Doom
#1878 - 2013-01-02 05:24:24 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but what are everyone's thoughts on industry in NPC null space and the stations there?

*popcorn*

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Great_Wildlands#stations

Let me clarify. How would the effectiveness of doing industry in NPC null space compare to other types of space in the game.


The second worst, just behind w-space.

Very few stations and no sov POS fuel bonus.

NPC nullsec could have potential for trading hubs, but it has no industrial benefits, bonuses, or upgrades.

I mean after an industrial revamp. Where would industry in NPC null space rate? Technically you have five types of space. High, low, player null, NPC null and unknown space.

The same as all space -0.0 industrially except they would not have the ability to build supers or Outposts, so they would have the same industry capability as a WH except the ability to store gear at near by NPC stations to prevent destruction and they would have local and a permanent route out.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#1879 - 2013-01-02 05:27:16 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
I don’t really see the point of whining in the forums about the lack of facilities.


It works for the denizens of highsec & a lot quicker too. They only need to complain for 6 months to get the change they desire. We need to complain for years before the idea is considered.

But until recently Null residents have been unwilling for any kind of compromise, so while in this thread I have said that to protect Null markets fuel consumption for jump drives should be 8 times higher before there would have been walls of text against any kind of loss.

Actually this is about the best discussion I have had that included Null types, well ever.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1880 - 2013-01-02 05:28:35 UTC
Garou Carew wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Garou Carew wrote:
it seems to me that some people want it all the manufacturing security of Hi Sec and the mineral wealth of Null.

Also you seem to assume that Hi Sec access to factory slots is a given, I’ve setup several POS because its practically impossible to get access to research or factory slots in Hi Sec, also refining, manufacturing and research costs also escalate significantly unless you have faction standings with the station, and who likes to grind?. To be truthful I’d rather do what’s needed at multiple POS or an outpost.


We don't want the manufacturing security of highsec in nullsec, that would be utterly pointless. We want to be able to upgrade our nullsec industry capabilites for all the time, effort & isk we sink in to them.

If you're having trouble finding available slots in highsec, you need to move around.



I can agree with being able to upgrade facilities but not to the same capacity or efficiency as Hi Sec facilities, there is time and effort but also immense rewards and I don’t really see the point of whining in the forums about the lack of facilities.

As to moving I’m a tad old and several injuries sort of inhibit my getting around so I prefer to limit my travels to jump in, jump out of the systems that I hide my POS in, it makes for easy travel and I miss the locals at those annoying gate camps, I also like to bubble the gates and have a hictor on hand before I jump it may not help but it eases my tired old mind.


With the effort put into it, the production facility should at least be able to be as efficient as high sec ones.