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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1721 - 2012-12-31 03:05:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Frying Doom wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Ok while I believe trit and pyerite should be in as you call them Sov belts, I actually believe these minerals should be included in all normal belts.

I am not aware of the full mechanics of these sov belts, I am aware they are like grav sites in a WH but do they disappear after a few days if you do not mine them out?


They are in the normal belts in most places but like high-sec they are quickly drained, just like high-sec.

The SOV belt show up as a grav site.
There are 5 different belts based on how much you mine in a system.

Once you deplete a belt you leave it and wait five minutes and another one identical to the one you just cleared will spawn again. (in a different location in the system)
If I can find the link to it I will post it here.

Seems like a bit of a never ending cycle, cant you just mine what you want out of one and then go next door (within sov space that question is, not just pop past that gate camp in unsecured space)


yes and no.
here is the link Bloodtear Industy Index Report

You have to understand the size of these belts.
A paste from the report
"The small belt is dispersed just enough to make you move 3-4 times if you’re
mining it out completely. The combined total wealth contained in the small belt is
1.341bil, at 8.01mil m3, and takes 42.4 man-hours to mine. If you mine the small belt to
completion you’ll be halfway through level 2"

You will understand a lot about what null is capable of by reading the PDF linked/

And for fun this is the best belt based on size and how the belts is made up.

"This belt has increased in size by 38.6%– but ONLY because of massive increases
in arkonor and bistot. The current size is 7.465mil m3, and takes 40.9 man-hours to
complete. However, the average profit per miner is the highest of any belt, at 40.9mil/hr.
This belt contains a whopping 60.1% ABCM by volume, which is the highest of any belt.
The total belt is worth 1.95bil. It is easily the most profitable belt to mine to completion
repeatedly."

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Tesal
#1722 - 2012-12-31 03:06:42 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Tesal wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

...Yes it will be an alteration and yes hi-sec does need cushioning against the blow with the increase in jump fuel usage...


Increased jump fuel usage is a nerf on hi-sec, not a buff. Its a barrier to trade.

Who would they trade with that requires jump fuel? lo-sec is fairly close to hi and even with the increase in fuel costs would not disable that trade.


Where would the highends come from professor?
Frying Doom
#1723 - 2012-12-31 03:23:22 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Ok while I believe trit and pyerite should be in as you call them Sov belts, I actually believe these minerals should be included in all normal belts.

I am not aware of the full mechanics of these sov belts, I am aware they are like grav sites in a WH but do they disappear after a few days if you do not mine them out?


They are in the normal belts in most places but like high-sec they are quickly drained, just like high-sec.

The SOV belt show up as a grav site.
There are 5 different belts based on how much you mine in a system.

Once you deplete a belt you leave it and wait five minutes and another one identical to the one you just cleared will spawn again. (in a different location in the system)
If I can find the link to it I will post it here.

Seems like a bit of a never ending cycle, cant you just mine what you want out of one and then go next door (within sov space that question is, not just pop past that gate camp in unsecured space)


yes and no.
here is the link Bloodtear Industy Index Report

You have to understand the size of these belts.
A paste from the report
"The small belt is dispersed just enough to make you move 3-4 times if you’re
mining it out completely. The combined total wealth contained in the small belt is
1.341bil, at 8.01mil m3, and takes 42.4 man-hours to mine. If you mine the small belt to
completion you’ll be halfway through level 2"

You will understand a lot about what null is capable of by reading the PDF linked/

And for fun this is the best belt based on size and how the belts is made up.

"This belt has increased in size by 38.6%– but ONLY because of massive increases
in arkonor and bistot. The current size is 7.465mil m3, and takes 40.9 man-hours to
complete. However, the average profit per miner is the highest of any belt, at 40.9mil/hr.
This belt contains a whopping 60.1% ABCM by volume, which is the highest of any belt.
The total belt is worth 1.95bil. It is easily the most profitable belt to mine to completion
repeatedly."

Thank you for the read very helpful, I must say personally so as not to just hand you guys the farm might I suggest a reduction of spod by say 50% to an increase of veldspar and scordite to increase the total amount of trit and pyetite you would be able to get?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#1724 - 2012-12-31 03:24:39 UTC
Tesal wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Tesal wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

...Yes it will be an alteration and yes hi-sec does need cushioning against the blow with the increase in jump fuel usage...


Increased jump fuel usage is a nerf on hi-sec, not a buff. Its a barrier to trade.

Who would they trade with that requires jump fuel? lo-sec is fairly close to hi and even with the increase in fuel costs would not disable that trade.


Where would the highends come from professor?

you mean besides the systems right next to high sec plus the 2500 wormhole systems and the fact that some of those ores can be found in lo-sec, hmmm no idea.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1725 - 2012-12-31 03:27:41 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Thank you for the read very helpful, I must say personally so as not to just hand you guys the farm might I suggest a reduction of spod by say 50% to an increase of veldspar and scordite to increase the total amount of trit and pyetite you would be able to get?


The currently fashionable "fix 2 problems with 1 change" idea is to add some trit & pyer to the Spodumain yield. This simultaneously makes it less worthless and increases the low-end availability in null.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#1726 - 2012-12-31 03:33:31 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Thank you for the read very helpful, I must say personally so as not to just hand you guys the farm might I suggest a reduction of spod by say 50% to an increase of veldspar and scordite to increase the total amount of trit and pyetite you would be able to get?


The currently fashionable "fix 2 problems with 1 change" idea is to add some trit & pyer to the Spodumain yield. This simultaneously makes it less worthless and increases the low-end availability in null.

Ok well I did a quick look at my charts and it does show spod as per about 4 months ago at a massive 67.84 isk per m2 compared to velspars tiny 151.65 isk per m2.

I think you guys might be onto something there, that stuff would suck to mine.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1727 - 2012-12-31 03:35:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Frying Doom wrote:

Thank you for the read very helpful, I must say personally so as not to just hand you guys the farm might I suggest a reduction of spod by say 50% to an increase of veldspar and scordite to increase the total amount of trit and pyetite you would be able to get?


Well one of the reason I picked the replacing the Spod with a scordite is the ratio in scordite is very good but not perfect.
And most null miners only use the large. This would force them to mine the small belt as well.
So there is already a price for the trit and pyrite they must now rotate 2 belts to get what they want.

Like I said early most won't in preference to simply sell to high-sec and purchase the low ends there.
Up to a point.

And to be honest I was trying to cut down on what CCP has to do.
Switch rock and watch what happens.
IF it is too much they can always make another change.

Sadly this is all talk anyways, I don't see CCP making changes anytime soon.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Frying Doom
#1728 - 2012-12-31 03:42:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Thank you for the read very helpful, I must say personally so as not to just hand you guys the farm might I suggest a reduction of spod by say 50% to an increase of veldspar and scordite to increase the total amount of trit and pyetite you would be able to get?


Well one of the reason I picked the replacing the Spod with a scordite is the ratio in scordite is very good but not perfect.
And most null miners only use the large. This would force them to mine the small belt as well.
So there is already a price for the trit and pyrite they must now rotate 2 belts to get what they want.

Like I said early most won't in preference to simply sell to high-sec and purchase the low ends there.
Up to a point.

And to be honest I was trying to cut down on what CCP has to do.
Switch rock and watch what happens.
IF it is too much they can always make another change.

Sadly this is all talk anyways, I don't see CCP making changes anytime soon.

One would hope that what the CSM has hinted to about its minutes will occur and talk is always helpful as it leads CCP to the ability to see what some of us think even if it is just the big mouthed ones.

But as to scordite my now 4 month old chart shows scordite at 167.58 isk per m2 so the 4th highest rock as value at that time and as i said I believe in null efficiency not giving them the farm, I personally would be more comfortable with an increase in the value of spod by an increase of trit and pyerite within it, subsequently giving Null independence but not the farm. That is a good idea Malcanis .

Edit: oh and CCP is starting to run out of time on making the game better for all as so many good games are coming out not so much MMOs but good games. Lets face it so many MMOs come out not I would be surprised if the post lenght here would let you type in those just released in 2012.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1729 - 2012-12-31 03:54:59 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Thank you for the read very helpful, I must say personally so as not to just hand you guys the farm might I suggest a reduction of spod by say 50% to an increase of veldspar and scordite to increase the total amount of trit and pyetite you would be able to get?


Well one of the reason I picked the replacing the Spod with a scordite is the ratio in scordite is very good but not perfect.
And most null miners only use the large. This would force them to mine the small belt as well.
So there is already a price for the trit and pyrite they must now rotate 2 belts to get what they want.

Like I said early most won't in preference to simply sell to high-sec and purchase the low ends there.
Up to a point.

Producers do like buying lowends locally. Of course the miners prefer to sell it locally too...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1730 - 2012-12-31 03:55:36 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Thank you for the read very helpful, I must say personally so as not to just hand you guys the farm might I suggest a reduction of spod by say 50% to an increase of veldspar and scordite to increase the total amount of trit and pyetite you would be able to get?


Well one of the reason I picked the replacing the Spod with a scordite is the ratio in scordite is very good but not perfect.
And most null miners only use the large. This would force them to mine the small belt as well.
So there is already a price for the trit and pyrite they must now rotate 2 belts to get what they want.

Like I said early most won't in preference to simply sell to high-sec and purchase the low ends there.
Up to a point.

And to be honest I was trying to cut down on what CCP has to do.
Switch rock and watch what happens.
IF it is too much they can always make another change.

Sadly this is all talk anyways, I don't see CCP making changes anytime soon.

One would hope that what the CSM has hinted to about its minutes will occur and talk is always helpful as it leads CCP to the ability to see what some of us think even if it is just the big mouthed ones.

But as to scordite my now 4 month old chart shows scordite at 167.58 isk per m2 so the 4th highest rock as value at that time and as i said I believe in null efficiency not giving them the farm, I personally would be more comfortable with an increase in the value of spod by an increase of trit and pyerite within it, subsequently giving Null independence but not the farm. That is a good idea Malcanis .

Edit: oh and CCP is starting to run out of time on making the game better for all as so many good games are coming out not so much MMOs but good games. Lets face it so many MMOs come out not I would be surprised if the post lenght here would let you type in those just released in 2012.



you can't look at the value of the roid but rather the mineral you get from the roid.
Scordite only gives Trit and Pyerite exactly what Null needs.
Spod give Trit pyerite and Megacite.

So I am giving null the Trit and Pyerite and taking away a source of megacyte
Hardly the farm, overall this will actually decrease the value of the belt over time when the price of trit and pyrite falls.
Which is the point, a checks and balances on those 2 minerals.


EVERYBODY KNOWS
Frying Doom
#1731 - 2012-12-31 04:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Thank you for the read very helpful, I must say personally so as not to just hand you guys the farm might I suggest a reduction of spod by say 50% to an increase of veldspar and scordite to increase the total amount of trit and pyetite you would be able to get?


Well one of the reason I picked the replacing the Spod with a scordite is the ratio in scordite is very good but not perfect.
And most null miners only use the large. This would force them to mine the small belt as well.
So there is already a price for the trit and pyrite they must now rotate 2 belts to get what they want.

Like I said early most won't in preference to simply sell to high-sec and purchase the low ends there.
Up to a point.

And to be honest I was trying to cut down on what CCP has to do.
Switch rock and watch what happens.
IF it is too much they can always make another change.

Sadly this is all talk anyways, I don't see CCP making changes anytime soon.

One would hope that what the CSM has hinted to about its minutes will occur and talk is always helpful as it leads CCP to the ability to see what some of us think even if it is just the big mouthed ones.

But as to scordite my now 4 month old chart shows scordite at 167.58 isk per m2 so the 4th highest rock as value at that time and as i said I believe in null efficiency not giving them the farm, I personally would be more comfortable with an increase in the value of spod by an increase of trit and pyerite within it, subsequently giving Null independence but not the farm. That is a good idea Malcanis .

Edit: oh and CCP is starting to run out of time on making the game better for all as so many good games are coming out not so much MMOs but good games. Lets face it so many MMOs come out not I would be surprised if the post lenght here would let you type in those just released in 2012.



you can't look at the value of the roid but rather the mineral you get from the roid.
Scordite only gives Trit and Pyerite exactly what Null needs.
Spod give Trit pyerite and Megacite.

So I am giving null the Trit and Pyerite and taking away a source of megacyte
Hardly the farm, overall this will actually decrease the value of the belt over time when the price of trit and pyrite falls.
Which is the point, a checks and balances on those 2 minerals.


from67 isk per m2 to 165 per m2 is a huge jump especially being the material you want to swap over effects from 10% to 55% of the total belt contents,
While the mex would still be in there there is not a huge problem with that as shown in that document a bit more mex will not hurt anyone, while I would be happy with a trit and pyerite increase to bring it up to about 100-120 isk per m2 fro the spod.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1732 - 2012-12-31 07:53:06 UTC
It might be a huge jump, but that's in the context of the most common nullsec ore being worth just over 1/3 as much as the second common hi-sec ore.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#1733 - 2012-12-31 07:58:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Malcanis wrote:
It might be a huge jump, but that's in the context of the most common nullsec ore being worth just over 1/3 as much as the second common hi-sec ore.


As I said my chart is 4 months old but
Yes but it would make the total value of some of those sites go up one hell of a lot. as well as the fact it is kind of the crap of Null it would bring it above what I have Omber at but saying that I could see an argument for 150 isk per m3 given that still makes it crap but not pointless crap.

Ok I just re calibrated my tables as at today... Talk about inflation.

I would say at today's market 180 isk per m3 is about right for making it acceptable not competently useless.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1734 - 2012-12-31 16:43:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
In eve, high sec nerfs you!
All the high end ores are not present in high sec.
You can already make much more isk in null faster with very little effort.
Bump Truck
Doomheim
#1735 - 2012-12-31 18:07:12 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
In eve, high sec nerfs you!
All the high end ores are not present in high sec.
You can already make much more isk in null faster with very little effort.



Yes, and?

What does this mean? Is it a poem?
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1736 - 2012-12-31 18:23:42 UTC
Bump Truck wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
In eve, high sec nerfs you!
All the high end ores are not present in high sec.
You can already make much more isk in null faster with very little effort.



Yes, and?

What does this mean? Is it a poem?


It means what it says. You cant put it more simple. Or do you want bullet points aswell?
Frying Doom
#1737 - 2012-12-31 22:27:59 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Bump Truck wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
In eve, high sec nerfs you!
All the high end ores are not present in high sec.
You can already make much more isk in null faster with very little effort.



Yes, and?

What does this mean? Is it a poem?


It means what it says. You cant put it more simple. Or do you want bullet points aswell?

I think he is trying to say that Hi-sec is already nerfed and that null is very easy to make money.

Wonder why if that was so there are so many alts from Null and else where in Hi-sec to make money?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1738 - 2012-12-31 22:51:09 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I think he is trying to say that Hi-sec is already nerfed and that null is very easy to make money.

Wonder why if that was so there are so many alts from Null and else where in Hi-sec to make money?

Either we're really stupid, or high-sec's safety is just too good, making the rewards so much better than the risk would imply.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#1739 - 2012-12-31 22:56:44 UTC
Actually you can easily nerf high sec in various ways where its healthy and not that harmful.

I know lets install gate tolls.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Frying Doom
#1740 - 2012-12-31 23:01:54 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Actually you can easily nerf high sec in various ways where its healthy and not that harmful.

I know lets install gate tolls.

To fund the space lane improvement project? Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!