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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Etherealclams
#1681 - 2012-12-30 20:46:12 UTC
damn this threads still going? Cmon the horse is a dead, anally raped skeleton. stop.

http://aclamthatrants.blogspot.com/ Read up on my adventures.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1682 - 2012-12-30 20:46:44 UTC
Simetraz wrote:

See there is the problem.
You have no way of knowing how many of those high-sec players are really alts of null-sec players.


This is the root of the problem.

I'm a null sec industrialist, I use a high sec alt. Nerf me.

I shouldn't be able to sit in high sec and be just as good as this guy.

Now combine that with the number of people that have NPC corp mains.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1683 - 2012-12-30 20:49:05 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
I see a lot of people talking but nobody still is stating where the problem is.

Everyone is saying High-sec is making stupid ISK.
And it needs to be balanced.

I've only said it god knows how many times.

You can be as good an industrialist as anyone else, sometimes better, by not leaving the NPC corp. Nothing you buff in null will make null better than the NPC corps.

The balance in null isn't out of wack. The isk you make, for the risk and effort is wortwhile. NPC corp players can make just as much never leaving the NPC corp or high sec; that is the problem.


The real simple version of this is.
Null is on a wage of 10 ISK/ hour.
High sec corps are 10 ISK/ hour.
NPC corps are 10 ISK/ hour.

Two of those groups are assuming some amount of risk and effort, one is not; yet you can do just as well there.

The NPC corps are overpowered.


How does the NPC corp player get the ISK to begin with.
Industry is the same across the board, why should the rules be any better for null sec.
OH wait they already are.
FREE refining and FREE production in null-sec stations.
THe ability to make capital ships.
Don't try and hand me a line about but it cost me blah blah when I produce my own station, talk to the owner about that, they are the ones who ripping you off, not anyone else.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#1684 - 2012-12-30 20:51:18 UTC
Mineral supply in nullsec right now is a chicken-and-egg problem. Nobody is going to import minerals unless they have a guaranteed buyer, and no one is building anything because there are no minerals on the market. Small-time industrialists are not interested in adding more tasks for themselves, or have the free isk/characters in order to build stuff, and high-scale industrialists who already have the supply line running don't want to bother supplying relatively few minerals for smalltimers because it isn't worth their time.

The easy solution is to make mining low-ends viable to mine in nullsec, by increasing their isk/hour rate so that people strip sites clean instead of cherry picking the good stuff then moving to the next system. Mining helps to provide minerals for small scale manufacturers, miners in nullsec cannot (and should not be able to) provide enough minerals to sustain supercapital building operations or massive fleet doctrine creation schemes. That's what highsec is for.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1685 - 2012-12-30 21:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
EI Digin wrote:
Mineral supply in nullsec right now is a chicken-and-egg problem. Nobody is going to import minerals unless they have a guaranteed buyer, and no one is building anything because there are no minerals on the market. Small-time industrialists are not interested in adding more tasks for themselves, or have the free isk/characters in order to build stuff, and high-scale industrialists who already have the supply line running don't want to bother supplying relatively few minerals for smalltimers because it isn't worth their time.

The easy solution is to make mining low-ends viable to mine in nullsec, by increasing their isk/hour rate so that people strip sites clean instead of cherry picking the good stuff then moving to the next system. Mining helps to provide minerals for small scale manufacturers, miners in nullsec cannot (and should not be able to) provide enough minerals to sustain supercapital building operations or massive fleet doctrine creation schemes. That's what highsec is for.


Cherry picking is once again a internal problem.
If you can't manage your own people or they are willing to knock it off then get rid of them.

And the idea that null can't provide enough minerals to build super capitals is completely false.
And I know this because I used to build them.
We rotated the large belt all day long and had more then enough high-ends to sell the extra to high-sec and bring up the trit and pyrite we needed, plus have extra ISK left over.
And if CCP had changed the small belts SPOD into a Trit we could have gotten a few more miners out there and boom we would have been completely independent of high-sec.
FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT CCP change that SPOD in the small belt into scordite PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE Smile

In fact I have one of my own creations sitting around somewhere.
You get the right people together and you can do anything.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1686 - 2012-12-30 21:06:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Simetraz wrote:



How does the NPC corp player get the ISK to begin with.
Industry is the same across the board, why should the rules be any better for null sec.
OH wait they already are.
FREE refining and FREE production in null-sec stations.
THe ability to make capital ships.
Don't try and hand me a line about but it cost me blah blah when I produce my own station, talk to the owner about that, they are the ones who ripping you off, not anyone else.

So you think that being in a corporation that can't be war decced, and working out of a station that can't be flipped or destroyed is irrelevant?

And pardon me guy, READ.

I"me the null guy that keeps saying that he builds for free.
I"m the null guy that's on your side. I want your high sec corp to actually get rewarded for being war deccable, and working out of structures you work to defend.


Or do you enjoy being trivial in the grand scheme of things?
You think my high sec alt is buying your ****?
You think my high sec alt is selling your ****?
You think my high sec alt is doing anything other than exploiting the NPC corps so that I can do things faster and easier to benefit me in null, without interacting with other high sec industrialists? NO.

You shouldn't be allowed to exploit the safety of the NPC corps any more than I should. It needs to be nerfed.

LVL 1 missions don't pay the same as LVL 4.
You seem to have a funny idea of balance, because "the same" isn't balance. It means the guys not assuming any risk or effort are overpowered; it needs to stop.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1687 - 2012-12-30 21:17:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Simetraz wrote:



How does the NPC corp player get the ISK to begin with.
Industry is the same across the board, why should the rules be any better for null sec.
OH wait they already are.
FREE refining and FREE production in null-sec stations.
THe ability to make capital ships.
Don't try and hand me a line about but it cost me blah blah when I produce my own station, talk to the owner about that, they are the ones who ripping you off, not anyone else.

So you think that being in a corporation that can't be war decced, and working out of a station that can't be flipped or destroyed is irrelevant?

And pardon me guy, READ.

I"me the null guy that keeps saying that he builds for free.
I"m the null guy that's on your side. I want your high sec corp to actually get rewarded for being war deccable, and working out of structures you work to defend.


Or do you enjoy being trivial in the grand scheme of things?
You think my high sec alt is buying your ****?
You think my high sec alt is selling your ****?
You think my high sec alt is doing anything other than exploiting the NPC corps so that I can do things faster and easier to benefit me in null, without interacting with other high sec industrialists? NO.

You shouldn't be allowed to exploit the safety of the NPC corps any more than I should. It needs to be nerfed.

LVL 1 missions don't pay the same as LVL 4.
You seem to have a funny idea of balance, because "the same" isn't balance. It means the guys not assuming any risk or effort are overpowered; it needs to stop.


Ah now I have your attention and perhaps you will stop talking around the subject now and get down to what you really want ?
Saying something needs a nerf doesn't really say much.

How many members of you own corp that have high-sec NPC alts that are producing in all day long with ISK that was generated from null.
Personally I can thing of very few that don't have NPC alts for high-sec production.
How do you nerf that ?
And the real question is why should you want too ?
Just as easy to create a corp that also never leaves station which some do and they are also completely ammune to high-sec war dec's.
Or I have friends who just trade the markets all day.
Now that is where the real ISK is, not in production but in resales.
Once again completely immune.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#1688 - 2012-12-30 21:20:07 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Cherry picking is once again a internal problem.
If you can't manage your own people or they are willing to knock it off then get rid of them.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Simetraz wrote:

And the idea that null can't provide enough minerals to build super capitals is completely false.
And I know this because I used to build them.

Thanks for your anecdote, but in reality nobody does this. Just because you can run your people like slaves doing something mind-numbingly terrible and in the least efficient way possible doesn't mean everyone else has to do it. It's not good game design.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1689 - 2012-12-30 21:21:17 UTC
Simetraz wrote:


Ah now I have your attention and perhaps you will stop talking around the subject now and get down to what you really want ?
Saying something needs a nerf doesn't really say much.





It's ok to just write,

"I have no responce."

It's ok.
Everyone else apparently had a hard time comming up with a logical arguement for people in NPC corps to be just as good industrialists as everyone else as well.

Everyone else seems to want to argue over arbitrary things that will have no real impact on balance or peoples desires to move to null.

ISK making isn't a problem, and things like factory slots are convenient and not a reason to come to null.


The NPC corp industrialist is THE ROOT of the problem. Until their brought in line with the rest of the game, you won't be able to balance anything.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1690 - 2012-12-30 21:28:53 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Simetraz wrote:


Ah now I have your attention and perhaps you will stop talking around the subject now and get down to what you really want ?
Saying something needs a nerf doesn't really say much.





It's ok to just write,

"I have no responce."

It's ok.
Everyone else apparently had a hard time comming up with a logical arguement for people in NPC corps to be just as good industrialists as everyone else as well.

Everyone else seems to want to argue over arbitrary things that will have no real impact on balance or peoples desires to move to null.

ISK making isn't a problem, and things like factory slots are convenient and not a reason to come to null.


The NPC corp industrialist is THE ROOT of the problem. Until their brought in line with the rest of the game, you won't be able to balance anything.


I guess you missed the editting bit I at the end I know it was incomplete and was working on revising it.
reread my post again please.
I will say one thing if there was a fix that wouldn't completely break everything then I would support it.
But right now I am not sure there is one.
Well not a quick fix at any rate.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1691 - 2012-12-30 21:32:38 UTC
How is CCP supposed to balance anything while the NPC corp industrialists can build all the same stuff everyone else is building?

Why do you build T2 mods and ships in null, when you can do it in the safety of an NPC corp, using an NPC stations?

Build costs aren't a factor.
Taxes aren't a factor.


Pretty much everything I build is competing with goods build in high sec, and that's fine.

I should be able to blow your ******* station up when I get annoyed at your influence in my ******* market though!


It is not balanced when you can influence me, and I can't influence you.
It's bullshit to be quite frank.


NPC corps should not be a shield from risk, while you impact every other area of the game. That's wrong!
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1692 - 2012-12-30 21:34:49 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Cherry picking is once again a internal problem.
If you can't manage your own people or they are willing to knock it off then get rid of them.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Simetraz wrote:

And the idea that null can't provide enough minerals to build super capitals is completely false.
And I know this because I used to build them.

Thanks for your anecdote, but in reality nobody does this. Just because you can run your people like slaves doing something mind-numbingly terrible and in the least efficient way possible doesn't mean everyone else has to do it. It's not good game design.


Slaves not even close.
Everyone made a profit, the creators of the system (not me) did a good job.
It just took actual miners (funny enough most were drafted from high-sec) lost some too but that happens some just don't adapt.
A lot can be done with proper logistics and management.






EVERYBODY KNOWS
Frying Doom
#1693 - 2012-12-30 21:42:02 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Ok the easy answer is No hi-sec is not making "stupid ISK", the problem is that it is making comparable isk in relation to sections of space more dangerous than its self. So leaving no incentive to go to areas more dangerous.

Also the NPC facilities are too good meaning that people only ever have POSs in hi-sec to cut out the time in research and only research as everything else is better done at an NPC facility.

So the aim is to come up with a fair method to make people want to own thier own facilities and leave the NPC facilities to people just starting out as well as giving industrialists and subsequently others a greater reason to move to areas of the game that are more dangerous in pursuit or better rewards.

This does not require forcing people to go to more dangerous areas but giving them a reason to do so if they chose, same as NPC facilities at the moment they are so cheap that player owned structures really can not compete, so these need to be altered to make player owned structures a rewarding experience rather than just a slightly faster research at 30 times the cost.


See there is the problem.
You have no way of knowing how many of those high-sec players are really alts of null-sec players.
I can go to null make lots of ISK to front a high-sec operation.
In fact I can even undercut other player knowing I have a secondary source of income.
How are you going to force out those players ?
Any tax with work across the board, it it will get rather complicated to implament if you want to target specific player who are doing the same thing as the masses just with better backing.

And by stopping a certain player group you are essentially forcing them to do something else ?
Call it what it is the player base refuses to change and people consider it a problem so you want to change the way they play there game so you have to force them to do something.

People produce in high-sec cause that is where people sell there items.
It is nautral ground for the null sec alliances.
It also keeps BPO's safe as players spent time and ISK to aquire and research them.

And let be honest it is very easy for a player to get goods from high-sec to null and back again.
In order to change things so null produces and sells in null.
1 - give null the production lines to implement it (improve null station)
2 - give null the market to sell items (this is practically impossible given human nature)
3 - remove easy access of goods from null to high-sec and the reverse.

Number one is easily fixed.
Number two the the lynch pin that makes everything fall apart (no real way to do this)
Number three is well a nasty thing and you boards are filled with people trying to fix it to no avail.

In some respects 3 could be fixed by making null a lot farther out then it already is.
A change in the geography of EVE could help.
What I am talking about is either increasing low-sec systems and or increasing the distance capital jump wise between high-sec and null.
If you have to jump 3 times with a capital just to get to a low-sec system on the border of high-sec, producing in null would look more attractive.

See where I am going, try not to nerf but change dynamics of the situation without having to once again tweak the mechanics




But if people are spending their time on Hi-sec alts they would with an increased industry within Null costing them selves money.

3 is more easily fixed originally I believed in nerfing jump drives till the current situation was quite nicely shown to me where I realized the easiest way to protect what will remain of the Hi-sec markets (as they will take a drop due to the loss Null as a customer) is to increase the amount of fuel consumed by jumping as it is currently way too cheap for a jump freighter in terms of m2, personally i think an 8 fold increase in fuel consumed should protect these markets sufficiently while enabling Null to become more self sufficient.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1694 - 2012-12-30 21:46:46 UTC
Etherealclams wrote:
damn this threads still going? Cmon the horse is a dead, anally raped skeleton. stop.



Some of us find the Lindey Lohan look appealing.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1695 - 2012-12-30 21:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


In order to change things so null produces and sells in null.
1 - give null the production lines to implement it (improve null station)
2 - give null the market to sell items (this is practically impossible given human nature)
3 - remove easy access of goods from null to high-sec and the reverse.

Number one is easily fixed.
Number two the the lynch pin that makes everything fall apart (no real way to do this)
Number three is well a nasty thing and you boards are filled with people trying to fix it to no avail.

In some respects 3 could be fixed by making null a lot farther out then it already is.
A change in the geography of EVE could help.
What I am talking about is either increasing low-sec systems and or increasing the distance capital jump wise between high-sec and null.
If you have to jump 3 times with a capital just to get to a low-sec system on the border of high-sec, producing in null would look more attractive.

See where I am going, try not to nerf but change dynamics of the situation without having to once again tweak the mechanics


But if people are spending their time on Hi-sec alts they would with an increased industry within Null costing them selves money.

3 is more easily fixed originally I believed in nerfing jump drives till the current situation was quite nicely shown to me where I realized the easiest way to protect what will remain of the Hi-sec markets (as they will take a drop due to the loss Null as a customer) is to increase the amount of fuel consumed by jumping as it is currently way too cheap for a jump freighter in terms of m2, personally i think an 8 fold increase in fuel consumed should protect these markets sufficiently while enabling Null to become more self sufficient.


THought about fuel as well but decided against it as it would effect and alliances internal logistics.
If anything I want to boost the logistic inside an alliances borders (increase the stations abilities) why making it more difficult to get things to high-sec.
That is why I went for the lets change the distance between the systems at least for low-sec.
it would create a isolation zone and to some extent it would decrease nulls ability to bring capitals easily into low-sec.
Which has its own benefits.
And in effect this would also increase fuel cost at the same time as you will need more jumps.

As it stand right now it is way too easy to get goods to high-sec.

Is still doesn't fix the market issue however.
What null almost needs is a high-sec system with the ability to limit who enters the station.

To do that in the current mechanics would mean you would have to garrison the system.
Not something any null-sec alliance would want to do.

So we are back to square one sadly.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Frying Doom
#1696 - 2012-12-30 21:55:53 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Simetraz wrote:



How does the NPC corp player get the ISK to begin with.
Industry is the same across the board, why should the rules be any better for null sec.
OH wait they already are.
FREE refining and FREE production in null-sec stations.
THe ability to make capital ships.
Don't try and hand me a line about but it cost me blah blah when I produce my own station, talk to the owner about that, they are the ones who ripping you off, not anyone else.

So you think that being in a corporation that can't be war decced, and working out of a station that can't be flipped or destroyed is irrelevant?

And pardon me guy, READ.

I"me the null guy that keeps saying that he builds for free.
I"m the null guy that's on your side. I want your high sec corp to actually get rewarded for being war deccable, and working out of structures you work to defend.


Or do you enjoy being trivial in the grand scheme of things?
You think my high sec alt is buying your ****?
You think my high sec alt is selling your ****?
You think my high sec alt is doing anything other than exploiting the NPC corps so that I can do things faster and easier to benefit me in null, without interacting with other high sec industrialists? NO.

You shouldn't be allowed to exploit the safety of the NPC corps any more than I should. It needs to be nerfed.

LVL 1 missions don't pay the same as LVL 4.
You seem to have a funny idea of balance, because "the same" isn't balance. It means the guys not assuming any risk or effort are overpowered; it needs to stop.


Ah now I have your attention and perhaps you will stop talking around the subject now and get down to what you really want ?
Saying something needs a nerf doesn't really say much.

How many members of you own corp that have high-sec NPC alts that are producing in all day long with ISK that was generated from null.
Personally I can thing of very few that don't have NPC alts for high-sec production.
How do you nerf that ?
And the real question is why should you want too ?
Just as easy to create a corp that also never leaves station which some do and they are also completely ammune to high-sec war dec's.
Or I have friends who just trade the markets all day.
Now that is where the real ISK is, not in production but in resales.
Once again completely immune.

Actually you nerf it quite easily by making it more attractive to be in Null earing money there.
You make it more attractive to be in a player corp in hi-sec by nerfing NPC station capabilities.

You make more dangerous space a better place to be and you make player owned structures cheaper to research in and give them better refine rates than NPC structures, so while NPC corps still have their immunity to war decs they do not benefit within industry.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#1697 - 2012-12-30 22:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Simetraz wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


In order to change things so null produces and sells in null.
1 - give null the production lines to implement it (improve null station)
2 - give null the market to sell items (this is practically impossible given human nature)
3 - remove easy access of goods from null to high-sec and the reverse.

Number one is easily fixed.
Number two the the lynch pin that makes everything fall apart (no real way to do this)
Number three is well a nasty thing and you boards are filled with people trying to fix it to no avail.

In some respects 3 could be fixed by making null a lot farther out then it already is.
A change in the geography of EVE could help.
What I am talking about is either increasing low-sec systems and or increasing the distance capital jump wise between high-sec and null.
If you have to jump 3 times with a capital just to get to a low-sec system on the border of high-sec, producing in null would look more attractive.

See where I am going, try not to nerf but change dynamics of the situation without having to once again tweak the mechanics


But if people are spending their time on Hi-sec alts they would with an increased industry within Null costing them selves money.

3 is more easily fixed originally I believed in nerfing jump drives till the current situation was quite nicely shown to me where I realized the easiest way to protect what will remain of the Hi-sec markets (as they will take a drop due to the loss Null as a customer) is to increase the amount of fuel consumed by jumping as it is currently way too cheap for a jump freighter in terms of m2, personally i think an 8 fold increase in fuel consumed should protect these markets sufficiently while enabling Null to become more self sufficient.


THought about fuel as well but decided against it as it would effect and alliances internal logistics.
If anything I want to boost the logistic inside an alliances borders (increase the stations abilities) why making it more difficult to get things to high-sec.
That is why I went for the lets change the distance between the systems at least for low-sec.
it would create a isolation zone and to some extent it would decrease nulls ability to bring capitals easily into low-sec.
Which has its own benefits.
And in effect this would also increase fuel cost at the same time as you will need more jumps.

As it stand right now it is way too easy to get goods to high-sec.

Is still doesn't fix the market issue however.
What null almost needs is a high-sec system with the ability to limit who enters the station.

To do that in the current mechanics would mean you would have to garrison the system.
Not something any null-sec alliance would want to do.

So we are back to square one sadly.

"why making it more difficult to get things to high-sec."
That is easy if you take away the largest customer Hi-sec has and then you leave Null with the ability to move huge amounts of goods at a cheap rate there is no way at all anyone within hi-sec can compete with the goods coming in from Null as I worked out earlier in this thread with the current fuel costs and usage if the difference between hi-sec and Nulls ability to manufacture differ by more than 1% on the side of Null, then Hi-sec cannot compete.

I am all for giving more dangerous space the ability to be self sufficient as well as the ability to make good isk, I am not however on the side of the complete destruction of Hi-sec.

Changing the distance is much the same as nerfing jump drives, I my self thought like this but frankly while it does protect the hi-sec markets to a degree it does not really make life easier for smaller alliances and at the end of the day this is about hi-secs ability to compete while opening up new paths (well repaving the old ones) to allow industry to be more meaningful in dangerous space and giving people a bonus within industry to not just sit in a risk free NPC corp.

In essence if you increase jump fuel consumed it means that those living in Null can create competitively priced goods for local markets while not being able to flood the Hi-sec market easily with cheaper than hi-sec can produce goods.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1698 - 2012-12-30 22:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Frying Doom wrote:

Actually you nerf it quite easily by making it more attractive to be in Null earing money there.
You make it more attractive to be in a player corp in hi-sec by nerfing NPC station capabilities.

You make more dangerous space a better place to be and you make player owned structures cheaper to research in and give them better refine rates than NPC structures, so while NPC corps still have their immunity to war decs they do not benefit within industry.


Even if you nerf NPC stations abilites it will only spread out the market across several systems.

The problem is inherent to the populations.
Guess work on populations

80 % high 15 % null 5 % other

That means even if highsec earn less ISK the buying power of high-sec is still more overall then null.
So the best market will always end up in high-sec even though per player a high-sec'r has less ISK ,overall they will have more buying power.
Granted it is more complicated then that but the market supports the theory

This is also the problem with nerfing tax wise.
It will punish the majority while those who already have the ISK will take over the market.
And most of that ISK will be coming from null.

It is very hard to nerf the rich while leaving the poor alone.

IT also won't mean anything to those who never leave station.
Forcing people into a corp will not change anything.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1699 - 2012-12-30 22:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Looks like high sec space is so good that some coalitions have resorted to botting in order to get by. Sad
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1700 - 2012-12-30 22:22:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Frying Doom wrote:

"why making it more difficult to get things to high-sec."
That is easy if you take away the largest customer Hi-sec has and then you leave Null with the ability to move huge amounts of goods at a cheap rate there is no way at all anyone within hi-sec can compete with the goods coming in from Null as I worked out earlier in this thread with the current fuel costs and usage if the difference between hi-sec and Nulls ability to manufacture differ by more than 1% on the side of Null, then Hi-sec cannot compete.

I am all for giving more dangerous space the ability to be self sufficient as well as the ability to make good isk, I am not however on the side of the complete destruction of Hi-sec.

Changing the distance is much the same as nerfing jump drives, I my self thought like this but frankly while it does protect the hi-sec markets to a degree it does not really make life easier for smaller alliances and at the end of the day this is about hi-secs ability to compete while opening up new paths (well repaving the old ones) to allow industry to be more meaningful in dangerous space and giving people a bonus within industry to not just sit in a risk free NPC corp.

In essence if you increase jump fuel consumed it means that those living in Null can create competitively priced goods for local markets while not being able to flood the Hi-sec market easily with cheaper than hi-sec can produce goods.


Because High-sec doesn't NEED T2 items.
T2 items are a luxury item for high-sec.
T2 items are needed for null and null produces there T2 items in high-sec because it makes the most sense.
That really is the heart of the problem.
Any nerf you place on high-sec will hit null as well.
The 2 economies are tied together.
You can't nerf one without hitting the other.

See that is what is so interesting about the whole nerf high-sec.
To some extent it will cut null's throat.
You crash the high-sec economy and high-sec will continue as before just at a slower rate.

Null is not in that position they depend on the economy to sell items for pay for monthly expenses.
SOV is not cheap.

Although it would be an interesting way to reset null.
Collapse the economy.
Alliances would go bankrupt which means they would have to implode or leave null to just survive opening up regions for others or for those that say had a huge ISK reserve set aside.
Or perhaps adapt, hmmmmm
A little tinfoil for fun LolLolLolLol

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