EVE General Discussion

Please explain to me how nerfing jump ranges would not have the effects I stated, specifically in regards to encouraging coalitions.

Allow me to provide some illustrations, if it helps.

Imagine you're a small alliance living in Period Basis, with your capital in TPAR-G. We'll pretend you can produce everything Tech 1 you need locally, but the nature of Tech II production means that importation from highsec remains mandatory for your HACs, T2 guns, etc. Your JF pilots have maxed nav skills, so they open up the map and see what it takes to get from Keberz to TPAR-G (or TPAR-G to Nourbal on an outbound leg).

At least with my mapping tool, the default route goes through F-NXLQ and W-IX39, both in Querious. Three jumps total. Maybe you'd prefer to hit Delve NPC space instead, since you mentioned NPC space as a midpoint. Whoops! TPAR to the southern-most NPC system in Delve (319-) requires a stop in SVM (also in Delve) first, and another midpoint between 319 and Nourbal itself. So now we've added a jump, and haven't actually done anything to prevent us from having to make nice with the locals.

What if we nerf jump range? Jump Drive Cal is 25% per level, so a 125% bonus. Lets say that that goes to a 15% per level bonus, so the maximum possible bonus is equal to the current JDC 3. Four jumps still. Maybe 10% per level, equivalent to today's JDC 2? Now we're up to 5.

This isn't just limited to Delve/Querious/PB area either Lets take our home, VFK. As it stands today, I can make the trip from VFK to my preferred lowsec jump-in in just two trips at JDC 4, much less JDC 5. Taking the same 10% per level (JDC 3 equivalent) as above, that climbs to three jumps. I'm lucky here, as it happens - I can ping through the NPC areas of Pure Blind. Whew! Of course, lord help those schmucks up in Branch. Right now they can cyno from BKG to lowsec all the way through NPC space, though doing so requires a cyno on a POS, which isn't exactly good practice for keeping oneself safe. Of course, that's with JDC5. Drop that by so little as one level, the equivalent of a nerf to 20% per level, and they're going through player owned space whether they like it or not. Four jumps at JDC 3 or 4, worse from there.


The drone regions are especially and hilariously screwed if CCP listened to you. Even going back to our current scenario where we've got maxed skills and current jump ranges, the most appealing route I can find from a relatively close region to Empire (Etherium Reach) is jumping out to Frulegur, which is three cyno jumps from 1ACJ-6 (which I picked at random, I don't know much about the region). It's four jumps from FJ-GUR in Oasa, and five from E-BYOS in Cobalt Edge. Of course, today's drone regions are one big friendly family, so going through other regions is fine.

What happens if we start chopping levels off of JDC, effectively nerfing our jump range? Well, not much at JDC4. You stay within the drone regions, at least, no matter where you're coming from. But in that 15% per level example, the equivalent of today's JDC3? Apparently my mapping software is dumb so I'm editing this, but the jumps required increase, quite a bit, as above.

I could move on to regions like Cache or Insmother, but I'm running low on characters, so I digress.

If I haven't made my point by now, it's this. Even today, many regions are cut off from Empire unless you're friendly with your nearer to empire neighbors. Your proposed jump drive nerfs would only exacerbate this, sometimes to hilarious extremes. Without safe supply lines, you're pretty much hosed, and so I ask again - please tell me how your proposed nerfs will do anything but push people further into coalitions. Ignore the industry stuff, just answer that. Thanks.

Unless you really think that people would stay around if forced to be literal mining slaves.

Well, thats what this is really all about anyway. Null needs so many slaves of all kinds :) Cant have those people not needing anyone in hi sec. No sir!

I don't really know why anyone would pay for a game so they could be a slave. That makes no sense to me.

If we were to do a serious TEST fleet broadcast for miners, or have a pre-planned mining week, I would gather we would get about 50-60 guys mining, most of them in the new Venture frigates or hilarious ships like the mining Rokh, and another 50 guys scouting/camping gates to defend them. It would be loads of fun (for the pvpers, because everyone in the universe would be descending upon us to kill our pinatas) but in practice you aren't going to get 256 man fleets full of miners running around the clock which would be required to become completely self-sufficient.

And you would need to pay them an inflated rate to get them to mine over doing anything else, and not do it too often or you'll burn people out. We might have 10000+ members, but that doesn't mean that we are all easily focused on doing things.

If the circumstances were very dire (we need to mine minerals to make battleships for the final timer tomorrow and there is nothing on market, and we can't move freighters anywhere), then I could see huge fleets happening for a very short period of time (maybe one or two ops) before people start getting sick of it.

This is likely true for any larger alliance within the CFC/HBC, because our leadership model does not work around forcing our people to do things and not very many people who live up here are interested in mining, even if it gets buffed, because of past experiences.

On the other hand, if it were say 4 man-hours to mine the minerals for a Rokh, and doing so was worthwhile thanks to super-ores and other mining revamps that made it worth a nullsec pilot's time, and producers didn't feel like they were stapling their balls to the wall by buying those minerals to build with locally because production facilities didn't suck, then perhaps you'd get the whole production chain without having to force anyone to do it at all.

I see a lot of people talking but nobody still is stating where the problem is.

Everyone is saying High-sec is making stupid ISK.
And it needs to be balanced.

The large belt yields enough megacyte for 114 Maelstrom, enough zydrine for 48, but only enough nocx for 7, enough isogen for four, enough mex for one. You'd have to mine four large belts in full to get all the pyerite you need, and six in full to get all the trit.


So no, not really.