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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Frying Doom
#1481 - 2012-12-28 14:38:11 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Edit to your edit: Yeah my wife has the same thing she is a WOW player, she gets invited to groups all the time and run off doing dungeons. Same people for the last 7 years.


It's not even WoW. These days every MMO adapted to the new restriction people have with their RL. I can name you a number of MMOs where doing stuff is within the time restrictions adults with responsibilities have.
Only EvE is lagging behind - and it's an huge mistake - hi sec and WHs are the only functioning and modern parts of the game that are easily accessible to a modern (crappy) life playerbase. Low is already higher commitment (unless you just want to run exploration / FW farm), null sec - depending on whom you play with - may be as bad as a flashback to Everquest I.

Well the follow on from that would have to be

How do we sculpt Null so that it is more casual player friendly?


Larger group of people with common interest can work. Once you reach a point, there will always be people online so when you are on does not matter as much but it's PvP so people will look for any advantage they can get because they are competitive. The very way SOV is designed prevent some people from doing it just like a 3 man guild can't really aspire to do high end raiding.

Numbers will always be a powerfull tool of it`s own unless they ewre to limit how many fight per day an alliance can do and how many ship per battle can be brought. Some people might argue that it would promote flight skill since you could not "out blob" the enemy but it also completely nullify other skills such as coordinating more player.

While I personally dislike the blob, I too believe numbers should be an advantage.

My main thing for Null nerfs are more based on jump and titan bridge ranges to force more people to have to travel or making alliances occupy an area that they can actively defend rather than one they can afford.

Goonswarm and others are a good tool for noobs but the other side of that coin is that true noobs do not know what forum to join to gain membership and are ultimately scammed.

So we are still left with how to allow more casual players into Null without them having to join a mega alliance?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#1482 - 2012-12-28 14:41:29 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Excuse me, but like always, real life and real life occupations have jack poo to do with any online game and that includes EVE.

Don't even think about coming with anything that even remotely suggests that EVE is "unfair" because some people may or may not have a real life.


I personally see no reason why this game should not attempt to cater for those people with real life obligations and those without.

It was the fact that I could advance (SP wise) while working 90 hours a week that got me to stick to this game in the first place.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1483 - 2012-12-28 15:03:27 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Excuse me, but like always, real life and real life occupations have jack poo to do with any online game and that includes EVE.

Don't even think about coming with anything that even remotely suggests that EVE is "unfair" because some people may or may not have a real life.


I personally see no reason why this game should not attempt to cater for those people with real life obligations and those without.

It was the fact that I could advance (SP wise) while working 90 hours a week that got me to stick to this game in the first place.


It would have to stop being a sandbox. As long as it is, them more manhours in the form of extra people or extra hours online will always give benefits over those who can't log for whatever reason. The nature of PvP is to try to be the best by whatever means necessary. If that means putting more hours in it, then people will do it. If it means recruiting more people, then people will do it. You can't have a sandbox PvP game without letting the guy with more friends or more time on his hands gain an advantage. It's not a sandbox if you change that.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#1484 - 2012-12-28 15:06:44 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Highsec is about availability of basic features. My suggestions were to move more non-basic features out of highsec, while maintaining full availability of basic features.

I guess since I think that highsec should be able to support as many people as want to play there with full availability of resources if they are willing to dig a bit I didn't suggest anything that the high and mighty nullsec lords would consider a "nerf".


No one is (seriously) suggesting that availability of basic features should be removed from hi-sec.

All we're asking is that some of them be vaible in 0.0 too.

The fundamental reason they aren't viable in 0.0 is there are other features competing for the same resources.

A buff to nullsec industry is definitely called for, but it will never be a powerhouse for T1 production because there are better things to do with industrial resources there.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1485 - 2012-12-28 15:09:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Excuse me, but like always, real life and real life occupations have jack poo to do with any online game and that includes EVE.

Don't even think about coming with anything that even remotely suggests that EVE is "unfair" because some people may or may not have a real life.


I personally see no reason why this game should not attempt to cater for those people with real life obligations and those without.

It was the fact that I could advance (SP wise) while working 90 hours a week that got me to stick to this game in the first place.


It would have to stop being a sandbox. As long as it is, them more manhours in the form of extra people or extra hours online will always give benefits over those who can't log for whatever reason. The nature of PvP is to try to be the best by whatever means necessary. If that means putting more hours in it, then people will do it. If it means recruiting more people, then people will do it. You can't have a sandbox PvP game without letting the guy with more friends or more time on his hands gain an advantage. It's not a sandbox if you change that.


I disagree. I think EVE can cater for casual players extremely well, as soon as we ditch this idea that "casual" actually means "carebear".

In fact I wrote a long post on this very subject, which was rather well received. Here it is.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1486 - 2012-12-28 15:11:10 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Highsec is about availability of basic features. My suggestions were to move more non-basic features out of highsec, while maintaining full availability of basic features.

I guess since I think that highsec should be able to support as many people as want to play there with full availability of resources if they are willing to dig a bit I didn't suggest anything that the high and mighty nullsec lords would consider a "nerf".


No one is (seriously) suggesting that availability of basic features should be removed from hi-sec.

All we're asking is that some of them be vaible in 0.0 too.

The fundamental reason they aren't viable in 0.0 is there are other features competing for the same resources.

A buff to nullsec industry is definitely called for, but it will never be a powerhouse for T1 production because there are better things to do with industrial resources there.


You realise that T1 ships (capital ships are T1, you may recall) make up 90% or more of the ships used in 0.0. Battlecruisers. Battleships. Carriers. Dreadnaughts. All T1.

I think you'll find that not only would alliances be happy to dedicate most of their production facility to T1, they'll insist on being able to do so.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1487 - 2012-12-28 15:13:38 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Excuse me, but like always, real life and real life occupations have jack poo to do with any online game and that includes EVE.

Don't even think about coming with anything that even remotely suggests that EVE is "unfair" because some people may or may not have a real life.


I personally see no reason why this game should not attempt to cater for those people with real life obligations and those without.

It was the fact that I could advance (SP wise) while working 90 hours a week that got me to stick to this game in the first place.


It would have to stop being a sandbox. As long as it is, them more manhours in the form of extra people or extra hours online will always give benefits over those who can't log for whatever reason. The nature of PvP is to try to be the best by whatever means necessary. If that means putting more hours in it, then people will do it. If it means recruiting more people, then people will do it. You can't have a sandbox PvP game without letting the guy with more friends or more time on his hands gain an advantage. It's not a sandbox if you change that.


This pretty much although it applies for any online game. I really have to wonder what people have between their ears if they cannot comprehend this simple fact.

There is no such thing as "catering" for people with real lives. There is however casual gaming but that tends to be game design as a whole and trust me, there is not a single one MMO out there who even once considered catering for those who can only play an hour a day.
Frying Doom
#1488 - 2012-12-28 15:17:58 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Excuse me, but like always, real life and real life occupations have jack poo to do with any online game and that includes EVE.

Don't even think about coming with anything that even remotely suggests that EVE is "unfair" because some people may or may not have a real life.


I personally see no reason why this game should not attempt to cater for those people with real life obligations and those without.

It was the fact that I could advance (SP wise) while working 90 hours a week that got me to stick to this game in the first place.


It would have to stop being a sandbox. As long as it is, them more manhours in the form of extra people or extra hours online will always give benefits over those who can't log for whatever reason. The nature of PvP is to try to be the best by whatever means necessary. If that means putting more hours in it, then people will do it. If it means recruiting more people, then people will do it. You can't have a sandbox PvP game without letting the guy with more friends or more time on his hands gain an advantage. It's not a sandbox if you change that.

Oh god

Ok a sandbox means that you are not scripted into a specific course. You do not complete a quest to open up another series of quests.

You can go mine or kill a Goon or what ever that is all a sandbox is.

Yes a person having more time will have an advantage, but this in no way shape or form means that we should not also cater to making entrance into areas of the game easier for casual players.

As to a PVP sandbox, you might want to check EvEs description of itself
EvE Online wrote:
EVE Online is a massive multiplayer online game that offers limitless potential to discover, explore and conquer an amazing science fiction universe where you pilot spaceships, fight, trade, and form corporations and alliances with other players.


It says you can fight but it doesn't even say against other players so apparently CCP feels there game is more than some cheap PvP simulator.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#1489 - 2012-12-28 15:20:55 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Excuse me, but like always, real life and real life occupations have jack poo to do with any online game and that includes EVE.

Don't even think about coming with anything that even remotely suggests that EVE is "unfair" because some people may or may not have a real life.


I personally see no reason why this game should not attempt to cater for those people with real life obligations and those without.

It was the fact that I could advance (SP wise) while working 90 hours a week that got me to stick to this game in the first place.


It would have to stop being a sandbox. As long as it is, them more manhours in the form of extra people or extra hours online will always give benefits over those who can't log for whatever reason. The nature of PvP is to try to be the best by whatever means necessary. If that means putting more hours in it, then people will do it. If it means recruiting more people, then people will do it. You can't have a sandbox PvP game without letting the guy with more friends or more time on his hands gain an advantage. It's not a sandbox if you change that.


This pretty much although it applies for any online game. I really have to wonder what people have between their ears if they cannot comprehend this simple fact.

There is no such thing as "catering" for people with real lives. There is however casual gaming but that tends to be game design as a whole and trust me, there is not a single one MMO out there who even once considered catering for those who can only play an hour a day.


You are completely right as the best person to cater for are those who pay there subs and never play the game. This is the ultimate player for every business.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1490 - 2012-12-28 15:22:17 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Excuse me, but like always, real life and real life occupations have jack poo to do with any online game and that includes EVE.

Don't even think about coming with anything that even remotely suggests that EVE is "unfair" because some people may or may not have a real life.


I personally see no reason why this game should not attempt to cater for those people with real life obligations and those without.

It was the fact that I could advance (SP wise) while working 90 hours a week that got me to stick to this game in the first place.


It would have to stop being a sandbox. As long as it is, them more manhours in the form of extra people or extra hours online will always give benefits over those who can't log for whatever reason. The nature of PvP is to try to be the best by whatever means necessary. If that means putting more hours in it, then people will do it. If it means recruiting more people, then people will do it. You can't have a sandbox PvP game without letting the guy with more friends or more time on his hands gain an advantage. It's not a sandbox if you change that.

Oh god

Ok a sandbox means that you are not scripted into a specific course. You do not complete a quest to open up another series of quests.

You can go mine or kill a Goon or what ever that is all a sandbox is.

Yes a person having more time will have an advantage, but this in no way shape or form means that we should not also cater to making entrance into areas of the game easier for casual players.

As to a PVP sandbox, you might want to check EvEs description of itself
EvE Online wrote:
EVE Online is a massive multiplayer online game that offers limitless potential to discover, explore and conquer an amazing science fiction universe where you pilot spaceships, fight, trade, and form corporations and alliances with other players.


It says you can fight but it doesn't even say against other players so apparently CCP feels there game is more than some cheap PvP simulator.


So what is it that you want exactly? In what way do you want EVE to become more casual? And kindly come with a suggestion that does not affect those who happen to put in a lot of time in EVE in any way whatsoever, directly or indirectly, cause if it does then your suggestion fails there and then.

And no, a separate server is not an option.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1491 - 2012-12-28 15:34:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Excuse me, but like always, real life and real life occupations have jack poo to do with any online game and that includes EVE.

Don't even think about coming with anything that even remotely suggests that EVE is "unfair" because some people may or may not have a real life.


I personally see no reason why this game should not attempt to cater for those people with real life obligations and those without.

It was the fact that I could advance (SP wise) while working 90 hours a week that got me to stick to this game in the first place.


It would have to stop being a sandbox. As long as it is, them more manhours in the form of extra people or extra hours online will always give benefits over those who can't log for whatever reason. The nature of PvP is to try to be the best by whatever means necessary. If that means putting more hours in it, then people will do it. If it means recruiting more people, then people will do it. You can't have a sandbox PvP game without letting the guy with more friends or more time on his hands gain an advantage. It's not a sandbox if you change that.


I disagree. I think EVE can cater for casual players extremely well, as soon as we ditch this idea that "casual" actually means "carebear".

In fact I wrote a long post on this very subject, which was rather well received. Here it is.


I meant extra hours can be used to distance the casual. Someone only putting lets say 3 hours a week in the game will not be able to help his alliance as much as someone putting 40 hours a week in it. It does nto mean the 3 hours guy is a carebear of course but the advantage of extra people/hours is still there and removing this advantage would be required to put the casuals on the same footing as the people putting in more hours. Is this something the game need anyway or should the game reward extra manhours? You can't have both...

High sec of course is entirely different. Casuals can be there with no problem at all.
Frying Doom
#1492 - 2012-12-28 15:35:22 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


It would have to stop being a sandbox. As long as it is, them more manhours in the form of extra people or extra hours online will always give benefits over those who can't log for whatever reason. The nature of PvP is to try to be the best by whatever means necessary. If that means putting more hours in it, then people will do it. If it means recruiting more people, then people will do it. You can't have a sandbox PvP game without letting the guy with more friends or more time on his hands gain an advantage. It's not a sandbox if you change that.

Oh god

Ok a sandbox means that you are not scripted into a specific course. You do not complete a quest to open up another series of quests.

You can go mine or kill a Goon or what ever that is all a sandbox is.

Yes a person having more time will have an advantage, but this in no way shape or form means that we should not also cater to making entrance into areas of the game easier for casual players.

As to a PVP sandbox, you might want to check EvEs description of itself
EvE Online wrote:
EVE Online is a massive multiplayer online game that offers limitless potential to discover, explore and conquer an amazing science fiction universe where you pilot spaceships, fight, trade, and form corporations and alliances with other players.


It says you can fight but it doesn't even say against other players so apparently CCP feels there game is more than some cheap PvP simulator.


So what is it that you want exactly? In what way do you want EVE to become more casual? And kindly come with a suggestion that does not affect those who happen to put in a lot of time in EVE in any way whatsoever, directly or indirectly, cause if it does then your suggestion fails there and then.

And no, a separate server is not an option.


What are you babbling about?

I was saying that I believe that this game should make it easier for casuals to get involved with the areas of eve be it null worm holes or what ever.

You know making it easier for people with real lives, not some other server or what ever you are ranting about.

As to a suggestion I have actually not made any, so maybe you need to calm down there.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1493 - 2012-12-28 15:37:21 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

High sec of course is entirely different. Casuals can be there with no problem at all.


They can... as long as they're prepared to accept the rather limited and unexciting range of activities that hi-sec offers. I think that hi-sec should offer exciting and risky activities as well.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1494 - 2012-12-28 15:39:16 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Excuse me, but like always, real life and real life occupations have jack poo to do with any online game and that includes EVE.

Don't even think about coming with anything that even remotely suggests that EVE is "unfair" because some people may or may not have a real life.


I personally see no reason why this game should not attempt to cater for those people with real life obligations and those without.

It was the fact that I could advance (SP wise) while working 90 hours a week that got me to stick to this game in the first place.


It would have to stop being a sandbox. As long as it is, them more manhours in the form of extra people or extra hours online will always give benefits over those who can't log for whatever reason. The nature of PvP is to try to be the best by whatever means necessary. If that means putting more hours in it, then people will do it. If it means recruiting more people, then people will do it. You can't have a sandbox PvP game without letting the guy with more friends or more time on his hands gain an advantage. It's not a sandbox if you change that.


This pretty much although it applies for any online game. I really have to wonder what people have between their ears if they cannot comprehend this simple fact.

There is no such thing as "catering" for people with real lives. There is however casual gaming but that tends to be game design as a whole and trust me, there is not a single one MMO out there who even once considered catering for those who can only play an hour a day.



Let's try with WoW for example.

Random dungeon finder making the loss of time spamming chat channels to form a group gone.
Looking for raid making the same spamming for bigger group gone.
Sharing lockouts for 10/25 mans raid because people feeled "forced" to do both for the extra badges/loot.

They don't design the game just for casuals but they do take them into account because in the end, it's still 15$ even if the player is not on your server all the time.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1495 - 2012-12-28 15:40:37 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

High sec of course is entirely different. Casuals can be there with no problem at all.


They can... as long as they're prepared to accept the rather limited and unexciting range of activities that hi-sec offers. I think that hi-sec should offer exciting and risky activities as well.


I always though that was the design goal but if the goal is not the same as I though, then yes adding more risky stuff to do for extra reward would be a welcome addition.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1496 - 2012-12-28 15:42:59 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


It would have to stop being a sandbox. As long as it is, them more manhours in the form of extra people or extra hours online will always give benefits over those who can't log for whatever reason. The nature of PvP is to try to be the best by whatever means necessary. If that means putting more hours in it, then people will do it. If it means recruiting more people, then people will do it. You can't have a sandbox PvP game without letting the guy with more friends or more time on his hands gain an advantage. It's not a sandbox if you change that.

Oh god

Ok a sandbox means that you are not scripted into a specific course. You do not complete a quest to open up another series of quests.

You can go mine or kill a Goon or what ever that is all a sandbox is.

Yes a person having more time will have an advantage, but this in no way shape or form means that we should not also cater to making entrance into areas of the game easier for casual players.

As to a PVP sandbox, you might want to check EvEs description of itself
EvE Online wrote:
EVE Online is a massive multiplayer online game that offers limitless potential to discover, explore and conquer an amazing science fiction universe where you pilot spaceships, fight, trade, and form corporations and alliances with other players.


It says you can fight but it doesn't even say against other players so apparently CCP feels there game is more than some cheap PvP simulator.


So what is it that you want exactly? In what way do you want EVE to become more casual? And kindly come with a suggestion that does not affect those who happen to put in a lot of time in EVE in any way whatsoever, directly or indirectly, cause if it does then your suggestion fails there and then.

And no, a separate server is not an option.


What are you babbling about?

I was saying that I believe that this game should make it easier for casuals to get involved with the areas of eve be it null worm holes or what ever.

You know making it easier for people with real lives, not some other server or what ever you are ranting about.

As to a suggestion I have actually not made any, so maybe you need to calm down there.


You can't unless you put limits on what the guy with extra hours can do with those. Well at least for Null. I am not sure how WH works completely so maybe that could be done.
Frying Doom
#1497 - 2012-12-28 15:43:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

High sec of course is entirely different. Casuals can be there with no problem at all.


They can... as long as they're prepared to accept the rather limited and unexciting range of activities that hi-sec offers. I think that hi-sec should offer exciting and risky activities as well.

A new tutorial mission

"We have provided you with a Civilian model Cane. You mission is to go to the Jita 4 4 undock and gank some unsuspecting fool"
Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#1498 - 2012-12-28 15:45:22 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Highsec is about availability of basic features. My suggestions were to move more non-basic features out of highsec, while maintaining full availability of basic features.

I guess since I think that highsec should be able to support as many people as want to play there with full availability of resources if they are willing to dig a bit I didn't suggest anything that the high and mighty nullsec lords would consider a "nerf".


No one is (seriously) suggesting that availability of basic features should be removed from hi-sec.

All we're asking is that some of them be vaible in 0.0 too.

The fundamental reason they aren't viable in 0.0 is there are other features competing for the same resources.

A buff to nullsec industry is definitely called for, but it will never be a powerhouse for T1 production because there are better things to do with industrial resources there.


You realise that T1 ships (capital ships are T1, you may recall) make up 90% or more of the ships used in 0.0. Battlecruisers. Battleships. Carriers. Dreadnaughts. All T1.

I think you'll find that not only would alliances be happy to dedicate most of their production facility to T1, they'll insist on being able to do so.

That's going to require enough industrial capacity to saturate the demand for T2, T3, Capital, and Supercap production (assuming T2 and T3 pushed out of highsec first, of course).

I'd have to run numbers to be sure of it, but just from what I've seen on the portions of the markets I engage in actively, and the characteristics of POS industry and the available nullsec stations we would be looking at at least an order of magnitude capacity increase in sovereign nullsec before saturating that demand.

I also don't think it's necessarily a good idea for sovereign space to be able to be completely self-sufficient, despite the obvious appeal. Every time you need to reach outside your space for something is an opportunity for conflict.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Frying Doom
#1499 - 2012-12-28 15:45:46 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Oh god

Ok a sandbox means that you are not scripted into a specific course. You do not complete a quest to open up another series of quests.

You can go mine or kill a Goon or what ever that is all a sandbox is.

Yes a person having more time will have an advantage, but this in no way shape or form means that we should not also cater to making entrance into areas of the game easier for casual players.

As to a PVP sandbox, you might want to check EvEs description of itself
EvE Online wrote:
EVE Online is a massive multiplayer online game that offers limitless potential to discover, explore and conquer an amazing science fiction universe where you pilot spaceships, fight, trade, and form corporations and alliances with other players.


It says you can fight but it doesn't even say against other players so apparently CCP feels there game is more than some cheap PvP simulator.


So what is it that you want exactly? In what way do you want EVE to become more casual? And kindly come with a suggestion that does not affect those who happen to put in a lot of time in EVE in any way whatsoever, directly or indirectly, cause if it does then your suggestion fails there and then.

And no, a separate server is not an option.


What are you babbling about?

I was saying that I believe that this game should make it easier for casuals to get involved with the areas of eve be it null worm holes or what ever.

You know making it easier for people with real lives, not some other server or what ever you are ranting about.

As to a suggestion I have actually not made any, so maybe you need to calm down there.


You can't unless you put limits on what the guy with extra hours can do with those. Well at least for Null. I am not sure how WH works completely so maybe that could be done.

No why limit him, he spends more time so his reward (isk) is greater, I am more taking about allowing people to ease into areas without requiring huge hours as to how to do this I am not really sure but it definitely deserves further study.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1500 - 2012-12-28 15:50:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
The fundamental reason they aren't viable in 0.0 is there are other features competing for the same resources.

A buff to nullsec industry is definitely called for, but it will never be a powerhouse for T1 production because there are better things to do with industrial resources there.

malcanis wrote:
You realise that T1 ships (capital ships are T1, you may recall) make up 90% or more of the ships used in 0.0. Battlecruisers. Battleships. Carriers. Dreadnaughts. All T1.

I think you'll find that not only would alliances be happy to dedicate most of their production facility to T1, they'll insist on being able to do so.

That's going to require enough industrial capacity to saturate the demand for T2, T3, Capital, and Supercap production (assuming T2 and T3 pushed out of highsec first, of course).

I'd have to run numbers to be sure of it, but just from what I've seen on the portions of the markets I engage in actively, and the characteristics of POS industry and the available nullsec stations we would be looking at at least an order of magnitude capacity increase in sovereign nullsec before saturating that demand.

I also don't think it's necessarily a good idea for sovereign space to be able to be completely self-sufficient, despite the obvious appeal. Every time you need to reach outside your space for something is an opportunity for conflict.


I'm not in favour of arbitrary restrictions on where things can be produced. They're wrong in principle, and should only be applied when absolutely required by game balance* (eg: supercaps). I think people should be allowed to make anything they want in hi-sec.

I just think that production activities in 0.0 (and indeed W-space) should be made more efficient than they are, and more efficient than in hi-sec, with the ultimate difference being sufficient to account for the extra risk, effort and overhead that industry, R&D, invention, etc faces compared to that in hi-sec.


*And if some ship or item is so powerful that it would be unbalancing to let it be produced anywhere then in my opinion that's a good indicator that its too powerful full stop.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016