These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

You CANT Nerf HighSec!

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1401 - 2012-12-28 06:32:50 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:

1. its not how it works in real world which is the source of devs ideas,its illogical to ask cocacola to build a factory in afghanistan desert



That is probably the worst example of a company to use if you want to say that industry doesn't happen in out of the way or war torn places.

Coca Cola has operations in Colombia, a country with drug lords, guerrillas, kidnapping and ransoms, private para-military. The "lowsec" of the real world. They have a history, not always good, of setting up shop in some out of the way places.

And their competitor, Pepsi, is actually setting up a bottling plant in Afghanistan.

http://www.pepsico.com/PressRelease/PepsiCo-Signs-with-Alokozay-as-Exclusive-Bottling-Partner-for-Afghanistan04202011.html
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1402 - 2012-12-28 06:34:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
look people not gonna answer you one by one,we would argue all night

my point of view is that the design of industrial high sec and dangerous low sec is intentional,whether am i right or not we will see, it makes sense to have it like that considering how the real world works

my claim is that its an inteligent design (pun totaly intended) and therefore nothing gonna change Roll

you think otherwise which is fine,tho i dont believe it,the thruth is probably out there...

throw a coin,we ll see

good night Blink


Uh, okay.
AoE remote doomsday was intentional.
Supercarriers fielding 25 combat drones was intentional.
Heavy missiles outperforming other medium sized long range weapons was intentional.
Incursions paying out 100M+ ISK/hr was intentional.

These things, however having been designed intentionally by intelligent developers, were however not perfect and needed rebalancing. The case here is exactly the same.


Don't forget:

LP stores

CONCORD buffs

Insurance Nerf

Removal of insurance for suicide ganks

Increased hi-sec belt spawns

Mining barge buffs


Quick, someone link me to the posts made by the people who are against viable nullsec industry and also opposed these changes because "obviously working as intended".

I'll wait.

(For a very long time, I expect)

Ganking is never working as intended.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#1403 - 2012-12-28 06:36:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
look people not gonna answer you one by one,we would argue all night

my point of view is that the design of industrial high sec and dangerous low sec is intentional,whether am i right or not we will see, it makes sense to have it like that considering how the real world works

my claim is that its an inteligent design (pun totaly intended) and therefore nothing gonna change Roll

you think otherwise which is fine,tho i dont believe it,the thruth is probably out there...

throw a coin,we ll see

good night Blink




"I got called out on my attempt to use sleight of hand to show that hi-sec and 0.0 aren't unbalanced, so I'll just claim that they're meant to be unbalanced and that discussing it is against god's will or something and run off before I get owned even harder"

A fine rhetorical technique, used by privileged classes everywhere.


dont put words in my mouth

where did i say you cant discuss it?

you are missing my point, which is because the devs want high sec and low sec to be unbalanced they wont change it -why do they want it? because thats how it works in our world

you can discuss it,you are free to do whatever you want - and guess what i might be totally wrong on my assumptions - im ok with that

congrats on owning stranger on the internet,you are the man Roll

good night james,yes the devs made mistakes,maybe this is one or maybe this one is not - i think its not,you think it is,thats fine with me
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1404 - 2012-12-28 06:36:38 UTC
I get the feeling this thread has reached so many pages due to the same handful of people in a nonstop argument. Doesn't Chribba have some thing on eve-search that shows the numbers on people who post in a specific thread??
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1405 - 2012-12-28 06:39:06 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I get the feeling this thread has reached so many pages due to the same handful of people in a nonstop argument. Doesn't Chribba have some thing on eve-search that shows the numbers on people who post in a specific thread??

I see you never responded to my earlier post. Was it in this thread? I lost track.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1406 - 2012-12-28 06:39:53 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I get the feeling this thread has reached so many pages due to the same handful of people in a nonstop argument. Doesn't Chribba have some thing on eve-search that shows the numbers on people who post in a specific thread??


You seem like a good person to ask about non-stop arguments. Did you read my article?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Hannah Flex
#1407 - 2012-12-28 06:42:47 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I get the feeling this thread has reached so many pages due to the same handful of people in a nonstop argument. Doesn't Chribba have some thing on eve-search that shows the numbers on people who post in a specific thread??


Well basically it all boils down to:

Highsec: You no nerf I quit

Nullsec: yo dawg

Highsec: you no nerf I quit

Nullsec: yo dawg can we get a bone

Highsec: you no nerf I quit

CCP: ....
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#1408 - 2012-12-28 06:42:55 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:

1. its not how it works in real world which is the source of devs ideas,its illogical to ask cocacola to build a factory in afghanistan desert



That is probably the worst example of a company to use if you want to say that industry doesn't happen in out of the way or war torn places.

Coca Cola has operations in Colombia, a country with drug lords, guerrillas, kidnapping and ransoms, private para-military. The "lowsec" of the real world. They have a history, not always good, of setting up shop in some out of the way places.

And their competitor, Pepsi, is actually setting up a bottling plant in Afghanistan.

http://www.pepsico.com/PressRelease/PepsiCo-Signs-with-Alokozay-as-Exclusive-Bottling-Partner-for-Afghanistan04202011.html


in Kabul bro,i was talking afghanistan desert...slight difference

i wasnt thinking colombia (not even izrael for that matter even tho there was almost war) when i was doing examples,more like africa,there is always civil war there and everthing destroyed
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1409 - 2012-12-28 06:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Randolph Rothstein wrote:



""I got called out on my attempt to use sleight of hand to show that hi-sec and 0.0 aren't unbalanced, so I'll just claim that they're meant to be unbalanced and that discussing it is against god's will or something and run off before I get owned even harder"

A fine rhetorical technique, used by privileged classes everywhere."

dont put words in my mouth



I was deconstructing them. A valid critical technique.

Randolph Rothstein wrote:

where did i say you cant discuss it?


You didn't. You said you weren't going to discuss it. For obvious reasons, I might add, because it was pretty clear that the hard facts being brrought into the discussion were rapidly taking it somewhere you didn't like at all.

Randolph Rothstein wrote:

you are missing my point, which is because the devs want high sec and low sec to be unbalanced they wont change it -why do they want it? because thats how it works in our world


I'm not even going to deconstruct that because it doesn't need it. You're flat out agreeing with me in plain language now, but thanks for conceding that hi-sec is unbalanced, at least we can consider that part of the discussion completed. All we disagree about at this stage. is whether it's a problem that should be fixed

Randolph Rothstein wrote:

you can discuss it,you are free to do whatever you want - and guess what i might be totally wrong on my assumptions - im ok with that

congrats on owning stranger on the internet,you are the man Roll

good night james,yes the devs made mistakes,maybe this is one or maybe this one is not - i think its not,you think it is,thats fine with me


I think we're done here.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1410 - 2012-12-28 06:47:12 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:

1. its not how it works in real world which is the source of devs ideas,its illogical to ask cocacola to build a factory in afghanistan desert



That is probably the worst example of a company to use if you want to say that industry doesn't happen in out of the way or war torn places.

Coca Cola has operations in Colombia, a country with drug lords, guerrillas, kidnapping and ransoms, private para-military. The "lowsec" of the real world. They have a history, not always good, of setting up shop in some out of the way places.

And their competitor, Pepsi, is actually setting up a bottling plant in Afghanistan.

http://www.pepsico.com/PressRelease/PepsiCo-Signs-with-Alokozay-as-Exclusive-Bottling-Partner-for-Afghanistan04202011.html


in Kabul bro,i was talking afghanistan desert...slight difference

i wasnt thinking colombia (not even izrael for that matter even tho there was almost war) when i was doing examples,more like africa,there is always civil war there and everthing destroyed


Weren't you the guy who, only 1 page ago, was arguing that "safety" was a nullsec "pro"?

Now you're comparing it to Afghanistan hill-country.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#1411 - 2012-12-28 06:54:36 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I get the feeling this thread has reached so many pages due to the same handful of people in a nonstop argument. Doesn't Chribba have some thing on eve-search that shows the numbers on people who post in a specific thread??

http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/183455-1

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1412 - 2012-12-28 06:55:13 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:

1. its not how it works in real world which is the source of devs ideas,its illogical to ask cocacola to build a factory in afghanistan desert



That is probably the worst example of a company to use if you want to say that industry doesn't happen in out of the way or war torn places.

Coca Cola has operations in Colombia, a country with drug lords, guerrillas, kidnapping and ransoms, private para-military. The "lowsec" of the real world. They have a history, not always good, of setting up shop in some out of the way places.

And their competitor, Pepsi, is actually setting up a bottling plant in Afghanistan.

http://www.pepsico.com/PressRelease/PepsiCo-Signs-with-Alokozay-as-Exclusive-Bottling-Partner-for-Afghanistan04202011.html


in Kabul bro,i was talking afghanistan desert...slight difference

i wasnt thinking colombia (not even izrael for that matter even tho there was almost war) when i was doing examples,more like africa,there is always civil war there and everthing destroyed

ON SALE NOW
REMOTE CONTROL HYDRAULICALLY POSITIONED GOALPOSTS

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1413 - 2012-12-28 07:17:10 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:


in Kabul bro,i was talking afghanistan desert...slight difference


Well, CCP made a new afghan desert in the form of wormholes. No local, no outposts, difficult travel, etc.

Where does that leave nullsec? Lowsec with bubbles? Wormoles with gates?
Hannah Flex
#1414 - 2012-12-28 07:17:32 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I get the feeling this thread has reached so many pages due to the same handful of people in a nonstop argument. Doesn't Chribba have some thing on eve-search that shows the numbers on people who post in a specific thread??

http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/183455-1

/c


Who knew that Minmatar Republic and Caldari State had such a vested interest in maintaining the status quo Roll
Frying Doom
#1415 - 2012-12-28 07:18:07 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I get the feeling this thread has reached so many pages due to the same handful of people in a nonstop argument. Doesn't Chribba have some thing on eve-search that shows the numbers on people who post in a specific thread??

http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/183455-1

/c

Ok I am safe I am below 1% Big smile

As always that you for your wonderful sites Chribba

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#1416 - 2012-12-28 07:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Malcanis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
look people not gonna answer you one by one,we would argue all night

my point of view is that the design of industrial high sec and dangerous low sec is intentional,whether am i right or not we will see, it makes sense to have it like that considering how the real world works

my claim is that its an inteligent design (pun totaly intended) and therefore nothing gonna change Roll

you think otherwise which is fine,tho i dont believe it,the thruth is probably out there...

throw a coin,we ll see

good night Blink


Uh, okay.
AoE remote doomsday was intentional.
Supercarriers fielding 25 combat drones was intentional.
Heavy missiles outperforming other medium sized long range weapons was intentional.
Incursions paying out 100M+ ISK/hr was intentional.

These things, however having been designed intentionally by intelligent developers, were however not perfect and needed rebalancing. The case here is exactly the same.


Don't forget:

LP stores

CONCORD buffs

Insurance Nerf

Removal of insurance for suicide ganks

Increased hi-sec belt spawns

Mining barge buffs


Quick, someone link me to the posts made by the people who are against viable nullsec industry and also opposed these changes because "obviously working as intended".

I'll wait.








(For a very long time, I expect)

Can you point to one of these the usual Null sec voices did not condemn as a mistake by CCP to alter or that their handling of the nerf or buff was wrong?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1417 - 2012-12-28 07:44:00 UTC
With pleasure.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#1418 - 2012-12-28 08:09:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
With pleasure.


A post after the release of the nerf, with everyone complaining it was the death of ganking would have been more relevant.

And to mark this point may I direct you to your own statement in the same thread
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217870-0/page/6#158

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1419 - 2012-12-28 08:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
With pleasure.


A post after the release of the nerf, with everyone complaining it was the death of ganking would have been more relevant.

And to mark this point may I direct you to your own statement in the same thread
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217870-0/page/6#158



Wait what? I was one of the orginal advocates of the nerf, and you say that's not relevent?

What did you think, that I changed my mind after it was introduced or something?


EDIT: I'm not sure I see the point you're making with the post you linked to. Could you be more explicit?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#1420 - 2012-12-28 08:20:37 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
With pleasure.


A post after the release of the nerf, with everyone complaining it was the death of ganking would have been more relevant.

And to mark this point may I direct you to your own statement in the same thread
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217870-0/page/6#158



Wait what? I was one of the orginal advocates of the nerf, and you say that's not relevent?

What did you think, that I changed my mind after it was introduced or something?


EDIT: I'm not sure I see the point you're making with the post you linked to. Could you be more explicit?

Not at all what I was pointing out was your statement
Quote:

No need to remove CONCORD payouts, just set the insurance at 85-90% of insurance value and the problem pretty much takes care of itself.

There was a lot of screaming over the removal of payouts where CONCORD was involved.

I don't know if you did or did not yourself ***** about this removal but a lot of the usual posters stated that it was a huge blow to ganking {insert Null whinning here}

Which is why my original question/statment "Can you point to one of these the usual Null sec voices did not condemn as a mistake by CCP to alter or that their handling of the nerf or buff was wrong?" holds true.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!