EVE General Discussion

Whenever someone says "you want to make it so highsec industrialists can't compete" they mean "you want to make it so nullsec industrialists can compete with us! **** THE SKY IS FALLING WE HAVE TO EVACUATE"

omg. dont be so moronic. goonspace is hundred times safer then highsec and the income is even better. if u cant use it, u need a buff

I mostly support buffing null sec, since goons and HBC own most of it.

Be nice just handing all the new shines to them, and no one else gets them.

vOv

CCP is going to do *something*, which will benefit *someone* - who knows, it might be him!

1. Much talk vs me about "red herrings", "fallacies" etc and in one line there are these effects:

a) personal attact by proxy.
b) attributing me an "hi sec" label to put me in the ideologically determined "enemy group".
c) putting some "intellectual" near to "hi sec" to make it stand out the incredibility of what I say.

The first (a), well I won't comment.

2. b) I have posted a number of screenshots in the last years showing me everywhere. Despite I am a trader (that is, there's no hi sec for me in the markets) and stated I go where business is (and it's not always in hi sec), I am flagged as "hi sec" because in this game saying anything "just" 75% conforming to the current game bossy bosses ideas is BAD and must be flagged as such.

3. c) Thinking different has never made somebody an intellectual, just someone disagreeing with a thesis. You somehow can't stand this and so you need to put it into "you vs us" simpleton categories.

4. Let me make it clear: if I ever had decisional power on CCP's balance, only low sec would smile. WHs imo are perfect so I would not touch them beyond the indirect POS (including industry) buff. But hi sec and null sec would be completely devastated and turned upside down to remove ANY form of safety and welfare and make EvE a dynamic PvP game where your ass is 24/7 under huge risk. Null sec would become a 2009 WH online style PvP lake.
You'd have to lose AT LEAST AS MUCH if not more than hi sec and mammoths like your alliance would be impossible to have. Alliances that would be a strategy evolution of PL or with heavy hit and runs would lay waste too much for your bloc to survive a long time. And then it'd be worth for me returning to spaceships PvP, because despite with age I lost a lot of twitch PvP skills, with a group of 10-20 I could farm dumb zergers every day like I have done in my past and future years in other MMOs and then get proper small scale fights with those actually providing ~quality PvP content~.

5. I heard from you that a loner in a one man corp thinking different = lobby. I am humbled. May I ***ROAR*** now and make you over 9000 strong p!ss your pants as well?

6. The people in MD are independent, MD is not my "reign" and I have groups of opponents at everything I do expecially markets related. Also, influencing non risk averse people in a PvP forum (MD is a strictly completely unsafe PvP forum) is certainly not your best propeller for your "hisec intellectual" definition.

7. Ideology still clouds your mind. That's OK. Let me restate the obvious: differently than Blizzard, CCP keeps TONS of stats. The barges buff unfortunately (it hit my business hard) happened because:

- in 4 months ice prices went from 400 pu to 1600+,

- because NEVER before a major organized alliance organized an industrial scorched earth campaign. Gankers have always been hobbysts, casual PvPers, small merc corps and had a very limited operation extension and duration.
In your case you had quasi endless man power, limit-less extension and declared it "permanent".

- because no individual nor corp, not even Helicity Boson could promise a permanent payment for forever keep suiciding ships even with removed insurance payout. Yet your endless ISK could allow that.

- of course - as ALWAYS - you (r alliance) could not brake yourself a bit, your endless and ever growing push would never end until a cop with a bigger gun than yours comes shot you in the forehead.

It was not 10 bad tanked idiots whining on GD to make CCP buff barges but - like for boomerang - it was YOUR irresponsible (can't stop myself!) and not smart (let's do it below the CCP nerf hammer decision thresold!) behavior to cause it.
Result? You still wailing about the nerf, my business damaged by the nerf, ALL hi sec casual gankers fun destroyed.

8. No sermon, don't try the "drama card" as you keep doing. it's your bosses. End of.

actually current sov 0.0 sec sends another message to new players: "It doesn't matter how much effort you put into your 0.0 home, eventually big bad boys will come and take it away from you". It simply not good idea to invest a lot into industry in space where you (and your corp, your alliance) play very limited role in politics.
You don't need 100s of manufacturing lines in outpost if you can lose it in 2 days because some "big blue" came and stomped on you.
The smartest people move all valuable assets into empire and have only pvp equipment in 0.0.


...

1. Now this is a big whine, 0.0 is for empire building and if you think your empire can build without having a diplomatic capacity then you are wrong. It's all about a bunch of people swallowing their pride and admitting they need to give and receive help from others in order to succeed. The bolded part is the only significant part it shows how broken 0.0 is.

2. I agree, but you can balance the intrinsic rewards based on sec areas. Presence of cynos is an example of intrinsic risk to an area. Highsec does not have this risk so its CCP given rewards (npc industrial capability) could be reduced.

3. I'd be all for making highsec riskier but after the current trend of reducing highsec risk, I'm not going to devote any effort to a hopeless cause. 0.0 is dependent on players when related to safety, working as intended. No, the industry problems have nothing to do with blues. Yes you can get your own blues. Yes you could get more then us if you have any social skills. Yes if you worked hard enough you could deal with us and our blues.

I think this is a really interesting question when it comes to revitalising 0.0.

One thing is to get the income flowing from the bottom up rather than the top down, take away alliance level income like tech moons and replace it with farms and fields.

Secondly, IMO, you want to make a system where unused space costs a vast amount, seldom used space doesn't cost too much and space you actively farm makes you loads of ISK.

This means it really wouldn't be in the big alliances interest to bulldoze all of Null like they do now.

It would focus empires into small amounts of space where they had just as much space as they could actively farm.

Wars would become more about crushing your neighbours military rather than taking their space, you would only want to take space if you had an ally to give it to.

This would be a lot more interesting IMO.


[To put some numbers on it, maybe;

0-20 man hours spent farming this month, 15 bill sov fee for that system
20-100 man hours spent, 1 bill sov fee
100+ man hours spent, no sov bill]

Honestly, why should *anyplace* in space be better than the most civilized regions with the highest population density for T1 production?

All the reasons come down to "we are elite nullsec players, we work harder so we deserve the best of everything" and that is selfish, self-entitled bullcrap.