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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1081 - 2012-12-25 04:22:10 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
We can't really build our own empire if we don't have the proper industrial capabilities.


Some folks seem to be doing a pretty good job of it. You hadn't noticed?
Tesal
#1082 - 2012-12-25 04:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tesal
masternerdguy wrote:
Tesal wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Tesal wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Answer: They don't, they're just reaching for any sort of justification to make sure their precious highsec doesn't get nerfed.


The HBC and the CFC have enough power already. To give them more would only make a broken situation even worse. What is being proposed is bad for the game. I hope CCP doesn't listen to you.


The CFHBC will not be around forever, fortunately. But out of curiosity, how exactly are the evil nullseccers oppressing you so much in hi sec?


You want to take away my toys.


Yes.... Good.... Let the entitlement flow through you.

Back in my day empire wasn't the go-to place for making a fortune, people actually wanted to live in null. Then again that was the 2008-2009 era. Hi sec has been buffed a lot since then and nullsec nerfed. You actually took away a lot of our toys.


Industry has been pretty much the same for a long time. Which toys exactly were taken from you?
Etherealclams
#1083 - 2012-12-25 04:30:48 UTC
I'm not going to read this 55 page argument over something stupid.

But yes we can nerf high sec.

http://aclamthatrants.blogspot.com/ Read up on my adventures.
POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#1084 - 2012-12-25 04:33:31 UTC
Quote:
Oh so basically you want small holdings. Go to a wormhole or make more friends. I would say go to lo sec too, but with your anti-friendship mentality you wouldn't last long against the locals who actually do understand the value of friendship.



And that is truly the heart of the matter I think. You think the game is all about making friends so you can group up and blow people up. I just think its about making friends which I do have by the way. They just dont expect me to build their empire or want me to come help them kill someone that just popped into local. I wasnt trying to be hostile and apologize if thats how it sounded. Im just tired of the black cloud hanging around waiting to drop its next batch of rain. Not all of us have a bazillion skill points and we do what we can. We also understand that no matter how we try to plug ourselves into someone elses organization that in the end we are just puppets on a string. We like our Empire. You give us a way to get into something better and Ill listen, but I dont think CCP needs to bring the hammer to make that happen.

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#1085 - 2012-12-25 04:36:24 UTC
Tesal wrote:


Industry has been pretty much the same for a long time. Which toys exactly were taken from you.


One huge one - The anom nerf. This vastly decreased the amount of ISK a null sec resident could acquire. You also took my skiff, which used to be used for mining mercoxit before you guys got your hands on it and turned it into a highly tanked miner for the paranoid.

You took the value of our minerals thanks to level 4s and gun mining being viable. Lets not forget the safety improvements to hi sec over the past, you got a safety button to prevent you from killing yourself because you saw something as tl;dr, and now anyone who is a can flipping meanie can be shot by anyone.

CCP rebalanced an entire line of ships that were all quite useful in nullsec because hi seccers cried so much about being ganked. And you've gained far more PVE opps in Incursioning, we have incursions too but they mainly cause a logistical headache and often just get cleared as fast as possible to resume business as usual.

Unlike hi sec space, our incursion rats are on gates and scram / web. And they hurt.

So please, continue about hi sec entitlement.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#1086 - 2012-12-25 04:38:19 UTC
POKER ALICE wrote:
Quote:
Oh so basically you want small holdings. Go to a wormhole or make more friends. I would say go to lo sec too, but with your anti-friendship mentality you wouldn't last long against the locals who actually do understand the value of friendship.



And that is truly the heart of the matter I think. You think the game is all about making friends so you can group up and blow people up. I just think its about making friends which I do have by the way. They just dont expect me to build their empire or want me to come help them kill someone that just popped into local. I wasnt trying to be hostile and apologize if thats how it sounded. Im just tired of the black cloud hanging around waiting to drop its next batch of rain. Not all of us have a bazillion skill points and we do what we can. We also understand that no matter how we try to plug ourselves into someone elses organization that in the end we are just puppets on a string. We like our Empire. You give us a way to get into something better and Ill listen, but I dont think CCP needs to bring the hammer to make that happen.


You are playing the wrong thing then, because CCP's vision of nullsec was always about large teams building empires, not about your real life friends having fun.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1087 - 2012-12-25 04:41:54 UTC
Tesal wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Answer: They don't, they're just reaching for any sort of justification to make sure their precious highsec doesn't get nerfed.


The HBC and the CFC have enough power already. To give them more would only make a broken situation even worse. What is being proposed is bad for the game. I hope CCP doesn't listen to you.

Yeah, because as it stands nobody gives enough of a **** to take our space. The only reason SOLAR does fine when it's spread as thin as it is is because their space is absolutely worthless. Maybe the buff to null we're proposing is actually what nullsec needs for conflict drivers. It may even help to break up the big coalitions we have now. So your opposition is frankly alarmist and nonsensical.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1088 - 2012-12-25 04:47:15 UTC
POKER ALICE wrote:
Well if thats the best solution anyone can come up with then lets get it rolling. If they nerf hi sec, then you will see the mass exodus from the game everyones talking about. Its not about ISK for most of these hi sec folks. Its about taking away how they like to play the game. I personally dont care.I think it would be a huge mistake followed quickly by the biggest rollback in EVE's history, but Id kinda like to see that to tell you the truth. Then perhaps they will begin to look at whats really wrong with the game. If something has to be nerfed to make something else more appealing, it will never work my friend.


Oh look, another "if they nerf highsec lots of people will unsub." Someone didn't read the OP:

16) I’ll quit if you nerf High Sec, so will many others, the game will crash and CCP will go bankrupt!

- Firstly if you are a person who will rage quit when they don’t get what they want how long will you stay in the game for anyway? You’re probably not a legacy player.

- Secondly people subscribe to EVE because it is awesome, and it’s gameplay makes it into the gaming press because of it’s awesomeness. This is what CCP need to protect for the long term health of the game and overall profitability, not pandering to an irrational few.

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POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#1089 - 2012-12-25 04:49:05 UTC
Quote:

You are playing the wrong thing then, because CCP's vision of nullsec was always about large teams building empires, not about your real life friends having fun.




You may be right. I do hear quite often that because I choose to do my own thing in a game the devs themselves call a sandbox that I am in fact rowing against the current. But the funny thing is that when i look around, I see so many people rowing in the same direction I am going. Yes, we have fun. Yes we do mine, do missions and build. But what "small holdings" we have are ours. Im not mindlessly following someone else telling me what I can and cant do. So yeah, I probably am doing it wrong...but Im not alone and we are having fun.

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1090 - 2012-12-25 04:50:03 UTC
Tesal wrote:
I think my post was pretty clear.


Now include the logic where nullsec players make highsec industrial alts to do less profitable industry in highsec (assuming highsec industry nerf and nullsec industry buff) instead of doing more profitable industry in nullsec.

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POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#1091 - 2012-12-25 04:51:24 UTC
Quote:

Oh look, another "if they nerf highsec lots of people will unsub." Someone didn't read the OP:
\



Wasnt it the Goons that stated their sole purpose was to ruin the game?

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1092 - 2012-12-25 04:53:46 UTC
POKER ALICE wrote:
Quote:

Oh look, another "if they nerf highsec lots of people will unsub." Someone didn't read the OP:
\



Wasnt it the Goons that stated their sole purpose was to ruin the game?

No.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#1093 - 2012-12-25 04:54:16 UTC
POKER ALICE wrote:
Quote:

You are playing the wrong thing then, because CCP's vision of nullsec was always about large teams building empires, not about your real life friends having fun.




You may be right. I do hear quite often that because I choose to do my own thing in a game the devs themselves call a sandbox that I am in fact rowing against the current. But the funny thing is that when i look around, I see so many people rowing in the same direction I am going. Yes, we have fun. Yes we do mine, do missions and build. But what "small holdings" we have are ours. Im not mindlessly following someone else telling me what I can and cant do. So yeah, I probably am doing it wrong...but Im not alone and we are having fun.


Why does your small group deserve anything? Just because it is a sandbox doesn't guarantee equal access.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1094 - 2012-12-25 04:54:20 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Quite frankly. You are WRONG with your second need.

Your first need I fully support, Null should be capable of supporting a proper industrial infrastructure that makes building your own empire viable.

But Null Industry does not NEED to be 'better' than High Sec Industry. It doesn't even need to be the same cost as long as it is close. People are out there because they WANT to be. Make it capable for them to do so, and give them similar costs to high sec industry, and they will do so because it is what they WANT to be. There is no need for it to be better, just similar and those that WANT to build an empire will use the capability to do so.

There is nothing wrong with High having 100% refining, Null just should also be able to have 100% refining at the same skill level of refining. Now if this means dropping NPC stations from 50%-40% so that only pilots with the top refining skills can get to 100% in High or Null, then so be it. But lets get rid of this idea that if High is 100% Null is dead, thats just rubbish, plain and simple. All that is needed is basic similarity. Not a superior Null and a Nerfed High Sec.

N.B. I don't mind high sec industry cost going up, providing that there are similar costs for null sec. I.e. Remove the cost of 'hiring' manufacturing lines in high sec, but make all lines, Null, Low & High require fuel (in the same amounts) of some kind to run instead. This fuel can be acquired anywhere, because really, the existing Empires would have settled on sources of whatever fuel is required to run machinery. This puts the cost of manufacturing into the hands of players as to the cost of the fuel, so if a Null Sec alliance can source it at half the cost it sells for in Jita, they then have cheaper manufacturing costs via their own efforts sourcing the fuel.


Why am I wrong with my second need? Risk:reward regarding industry is horribly out of wack, the safest space in the game (lowest risk) is the most profitable (highest reward). As an example one system in highsec, Sobaseki, has more slots available than an entire region in nullsec. The idea is not rubbish if highsec is perfect you cannot get better than perfect hence the warranted nerf to highsec industry to make it far less than perfect. That nerf couple with nullsec industry buffs are what is needed and warranted.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1095 - 2012-12-25 04:56:49 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Some folks seem to be doing a pretty good job of it. You hadn't noticed?


Sobaseki has more slots than entire regions of nullsec, hadn't you noticed? We can only have one station per system and all of the ones we can put down are terrible, hadn't you noticed? We can't profitably do industry in nullsec, hadn't you noticed? We can't get an industrial capacity even comparable to highsec, hadn't you noticed?

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masternerdguy
Doomheim
#1096 - 2012-12-25 04:58:06 UTC
Oh, by the way. Until you spend 16 hours on a titan bridge in a CTA waiting to defend your space from invaders you don't deserve to talk about nullsec.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#1097 - 2012-12-25 04:58:47 UTC
Quote:
Why does your small group deserve anything? Just because it is a sandbox doesn't guarantee equal access.




That door swings both ways

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#1098 - 2012-12-25 05:00:08 UTC  |  Edited by: POKER ALICE
Quote:
Oh, by the way. Until you spend 16 hours on a titan bridge in a CTA waiting to defend your space from invaders you don't deserve to talk about nullsec.



Yep, I agree. Sounds like loads of fun. And the problem with null is what again? Oh yeah...hi sec industry.



16hrs...wow. You play EVE for 16hrs? One day? I dont get that much time in a week to play EVE.

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1099 - 2012-12-25 05:02:23 UTC
POKER ALICE wrote:
That door swings both ways


I'd agree with you, if you build whatever it is you want to build and protect it you should get some benefit from it. You can do things like these as a small group or a large alliance. The thing that should not happen is it should not all be handed to you like it is currently in highsec.

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masternerdguy
Doomheim
#1100 - 2012-12-25 05:02:58 UTC
POKER ALICE wrote:
Quote:
Oh, by the way. Until you spend 16 hours on a titan bridge in a CTA waiting to defend your space from invaders you don't deserve to talk about nullsec.



Yep, I agree. Sounds like loads of fun. And the problem with null is what again? Oh yeah...hi sec industry.


You assume nullsec is about fun. It isn't, it is about work and commitment. Fun is a side effect.

And having to import your entire war machine from Jita sucks.

Things are only impossible until they are not.