EVE General Discussion

Wrong, EVE is one game, everything you do can affect everyone else clear across the star map. The isk I make in incursions is the same kind of thing as the isk I make in null sec anomalies, it affects YOU the same way (by making every isk in your wallet worth a bit less).

High Sec Only folks generally can't understand that, which is why many of them keep saying "just buff null". Not only do they not get the idea that it's been done before and was bad, they don't get home much THEY themselves would be screwed if that were to happen (on a scale where null sec minded people could live only there and pull all their high sec alts out of high sec).

They fact that some of you people need to fall back on the "you're just evil null sec people who want me to move there so you can shoot me" fallacy says a lot about the positions you hold and the way you think. No one much gives a damn where you play.

So now were waffling from the old agenda of making highsec so good the economy becomes larger to "I want more subs." You are worse than conservative pundits like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. I like how you are hinting at a conspiracy here, its as if our financial team didn't call for a nerf to technetium. It's as if our financial team didn't see the FW problems and call for a nerf. Technetium benefits us directly yet we wanted it nerfed. FW benefited us directly yet we wanted it nerfed. There are problems in this game that those of us who play in those areas want fixed. One of those problems is the focus of this thread, the disparity in industry between the sec statuses. What it is currently is high > low > null > WH. What it should be is Null > WH > low > high.

"Why should it be like that, I like highsec being the best?" It should be like that because it is more difficult to do industrial tasks in the lower sec areas. It should be like that because operating in the lower sec areas takes a group effort. It should be like that because operating in the lower sec areas requires social interaction (diplomacy). It should be like that because logistics are far more difficult in the lower sec areas. It should be like that because there is no CONCORD safety net in the lower sec areas.

"But, but, but.... SOLO PLAYERS!" Solo content should exist and it should be fun/entertaining but it should not ever be more rewarding than group content.

"But, but, but.... THINK OF THE NEWBIES!" Newbies don't run massive industrial chains or do much more than produce from one blueprint. Nerfing highsec industrial capacity will not hurt them. If anything it will disabuse them of the notion that solo play is preferable to group play and they'll more actively seek a corporation they like.

I think that kills the worst of the arguments, now why don't you try to bring something to the thread other than railing against our "evil space empire that only seeks to destroy all that is good."

No offence, but this is exactly one of the most visible ways of thinking that will ALWAYS keep a large number of people out of EvE but also out of null sec.
RL time / constraints are not an excuse, they are a reality, and people WILL have to deal with them and CCP WILL keep such an ever increasing kind of players. Even more so now with the crysis.

I was there too, in 2003-2005, playing 14 hours a day with other hard core guys and I thought exactly like that.
Then life happened and I learned that it's not all black and white and simple like that.




Yes and it's why I can still play WH or GW2 any time, for any length of time, those games allow fast paced and quick to get PvP of all kinds. Want to blob? Join a roaming blob. Want to ~elite~? Join a tournament. Have but 5 minutes? Join a "quick start scenario".

In EvE the only thing remotely like that is to wardec an hi sec indy corp and go gank some of them.




It's not an evil mantra, it's "accessible game play", something EvE lacks of. The closest thing is small roams but even those still take their long time. I remember taking 1h+ in a group of 10 just to see a neut in enemy sov. space.
It was better in NPC null but there was less choice, in the sense it was harder to i.e. bubble a station (lots of people in there, many with caps) or camp a missioning system (that was equal to kicking an hornets' nest).

Also, in the beginning sov holders would just send you a 10-30 men fleet against your of 10, these days they won't even care or they would just cyno in some stormsh!t to blow you to dust.

A 2 months old character can do L4 missions, training labs and mass industry takes less than that.
In a long term game like EvE, 2 months old is a newborn baby.

I did not invent high sec though, if you bothered reading my other posts you'd know my public stance is that high sec should not exist. Because I know that hi sec *can* convince people to never leave it.
But CCP put in hi sec and no nerfing will convince those those who WILL stay in hi sec to move out.
Imo the only viable hi sec nerf is to remove it and it would cost TONS of subscriptions so I can see why CCP does not do that.




Citation needed, and won't be found.

What? By saying someone is getting too much for their minimal effort, we're saying that what they're doing is wrong?
How does that make any sense?

It's no problem, under the portrait there's a "hide posts" button which will certainly ease out your pain.




I also looked up at my country's constitution, which should be somewhat more serious than a game intent. It says it's a Republic based on work.
Imagine this, the 2nd contry with the most unemployment and everything crumbling down.

We don't live inside a timeless crystal, we live in a dynamic and ever changing reality where moving goals are the norm.




I almost never reply to just one person. I understand a forum is a facility used by the thousands, who can't care the least about a "you and / vs me" post. So I post for many.
It's probably a most awful approach, whose immediate cure is that "hide posts" button I mentioned above.

As a turbonerd, i take offense to that, despite the fact that it is spot on and yet the hi-sec crowd is too damn narrow-minded to see it.



Because they need to have their cake and eat it too. You're right, some of them aren't casual the dude in the high sec ice belt with 14 Mackinaw alts is NOT a casual player lol).

A true casual wouldn't care about isk and other things, they'd be on some kind of test server screwing around with stuff. No, it only works for them if they can do things that affect the game like make isk or mine or build, they just don't want anyone to be able to affect THEM.

1. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence anyone can tell you that try again. A good example of why you are wrong, look at WoW its economy is not healthy and it has far more subscriptions than EVE does. I'll go find sources for you as soon as you stop acting like a :foxnews: reporter spouting talking points.

2. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence anyone can tell you that try again.

3. You missed the point entirely, your point was that "ebil goonies have an agenda against the health of EVE" my counter point is that we have found plenty of malignant things and attempted to bring them to the light.

4. You do not have a grasp of what happened here either. Aryth and co. warned CCP that there was a problem with FW. CCP implemented it with the problem they discovered. Aryth and co. exploited the problem, showed CCP a mountain of evidence that they should have listened and fixed it before it was implemented. Aryth and co. were punished for pulling off a scam using the current game mechanics and were punished even though they were ignored when they had spoken to CCP about the problem before it was introduced. So any "laughing" you care to whine about is as warranted as laughing at a person who touches a non-lethal electric fence after you have told them not to and what will happen if they do.

5. This is a wonderful red herring you placed what is the difference in risk between a WH and a highsec system? What is the reward for the industrialist in a highsec system and a WH? I can answer that for you, the highsec industrialist is rewarded far more than the WH industrialist. I can spot the problem for you as well. The WH industrialist has more risk yet less reward than the highsec industrialist.

6. This is some ideal of yours that is also another red herring, try again this time with empirical evidence.

E: I'll add to this. You still refuse to counter my argument that highsec is warranted a nerf because the other sec status areas require social interaction (diploamcy) in order to operate. You still refuse to explain why solo play should be more rewarding than group play.

If you undock anywhere you can be shot, even in highsec. Even if you play by the rules.

If you pay attention to the rules and intel sources appropriate to the portion of the game you are playing in you are unlikely to be a victim there, and are likely to be able to find nice targets.

Perhaps you just don't understand how the rules work in highsec well enough?

Or perhaps you think that too many people you would like to be easy targets do understand the rules?

It boggles my mind how much of a non-sequitur this post is. Is english not your first language?