EVE General Discussion

Personally I don't think the null empires are interested in becoming big exporters of finished goods, if they were they would probably pack up and move to highsec because it's much easier to do that there atm.

Personally what I, and I think a lot of other industrialsts who live in null, want is to able to be self sufficient. To be able to get a corp of say, 50, to mine and PI everything it needs and then manufacture those raw materials into all the ships and modules it needs, maybe with 2-3% of the materials imported and 2-3% exported for caaaash.

This makes a great target for other alliances and roaming gangs to attack, gives the corp an amazing sense of identity, as they really have built something, and is long term sustainable.

It would also help get people into null who are scared of it as such a corp would actively recruit and train industrial players to help with the day to day. I was scared of null when I joined, then OUCH taught me how to live there and now it's less stressful than highsec.

I forgot that ships and group sizes, whichever you are referring too, are fixed.

Excellent point. Thanks for that incisive contribution.

I feel like you're saying that owning a station in null is rewarding, so being a null industrialist is clearly rewarding.

I don't even understand the "social issue, not game design issue" part.

And what about everything else I wrote? You chose the least significant part of all that to address?

What about all the stuff about null industry NOT being "worse" than high sec industry, and how you couldn't really buff either area?

What about the whole being on par without having to assume any added risk or effort part? I felt that was actually the most significant thing I wrore, because it's basically my entire problem with the balance. I don't care if high and null offer the same rewards for industry, only that if both areas are going to offer the same level of reward that high sec industrialist assume some of the risk and effort everyone else does.

I realize I'm coming into this late (was on vacation), and I'm not going to read the 31 pages that followed the OP.

The OP is a lot of strawman mixed with red herring.

1) You use the term "hard work" like 3 times in the OP. Guess what. Not everyone wants to play this game in a way that is a lot of hard work. I want to log in, play the game the way I want to play it, whether that is for 15 mins or 15 hours, without having to worry whether my friends are online or not, or who else may be logged in and what they are doing.

As a casual gamer with job, house, wife, kids, even grand kids, etc, I'm just not interested in playing a game that is a lot of hard work.

2) The price of ABCs shows that null is no riskier than high sec, if you have the right "friends". I'd say the risk/reward is balanced as null is so safe that the ABCs are trading for virtually the same price as veld.

3) I've lived in Null, and found that I had to be "friends" with a lot of people that I truly despised. Foul mouthed punks, immature brats, losers that flood chat channels with text pen is es, and porn links.

My time in null caused me to drop from the game for 1.5 years from disgust.


4) 71% of players (your figure) live in high sec, not because the rewards are too high, but because the people that control null are giant douche bags. The politics, the people, the hassles... I'll quit before having to deal with that bunk.



And this is the bottom line!
5) You can't possibly nerf high sec enough to get me to move to low or null. The only result from a nerf of high sec would be for me to quit playing the game. Based on the huge % of people that live in high sec like me, combined with conversations with many people I've played with in high sec, I'm betting I'm far from alone in my disgust with null/low politics/players/hassles.




So, I'm forced to ask the OP: Why do you want the majority of EVE players to quit? How is the game improved for you if you nerf high sec, and high sec becomes as empty as low and null are because all the casual players that don't want to play a game that is "hard work" or forces you to be "friends" with total asshats that turn your stomach with disgust?

Why do you want to kill EVE?

Hey, thanks for the input, I read the last 31 pages and there's nothing to fundamentally alter the debate. There's a lot of agreement that some changes need to be made.

Can I ask, when you threaten to quit, how much of a nerf would make you quit? If missions paid 1 ISK less would you quit? If 1 Veld asteroid were removed from one of the belts in HighSec would you quit? If taxes were 1.501% rather than 1.5% would you quit?

I don't think anyone wants to remove activities from HighSec, thats in the post, it's just to make them a bit less profitable, if you're a casual gamer why would you mind if you made a bit less ISK? You don't really need it for anything apart from shiny, why not take longer to get that shiny, savour the process. It's not like you have space to hold or enemies to fend off or pirates to kill.

I support your right to play the game as a casual gamer, but what do you really need for that rewards wise? Would you like medals or accomplishments or badges as rewards for missions? I'd quite like that, I like game achievements.

I really don't want to force anyone to quit. I play this game because it is awesome, I want it to be more awesome. I really don't think people will quit in droves if HighSec get's nerfed.

Also I agree there are some unsavory characters who play this game, but if you don't like the people who play this game what is the point of playing an MMO? There are much better single player space games, whether you want 4X or combat piloting.

This game is great because of the other people.

1) Making null industry not suck is WAY different from nerfing high sec.

2) Reward comes from risk. If the reward is not there, then it must be because the risk is largely non-existent.


I have a friend that keeps trying to talk me into moving out to null to mine with him. He assures me that he mines for days without seeing any non-blues. It is so safe that he jet can mines.... with the giant spud rock and the ore hold on the mack, he can virtually AFK mine even rocks....


It is that safety that has crushed the price of the ABCs.

Most of this has been adressed I believe.

1) Null industry doesn't "suck" any more than high sec industry sucks. If you think it sucked in null, then you'll think it sucks in high; you shouldn't even be doing industry at that point.

2) as has been said many times before, the blues make it possible for your firend to mine safely, not CCP.

If it's so safe, why wouldn't you go mine with your buddy? It should be more than worth it right?
CCP decides the mineral requirements of all items in the game. We can make stuff use more morphite and less trit.

Edit: It "sucks" to do industry in null because you assume more risk and effort to do the same thing as a guy in an NPC corp in high sec; with no gain.

Sure, there is agreement among those that agree that there need to be changes, that there need to be changes. If you think that these forums represent a cross section of actual EVE players, then you are soooo wrong. The vast majority of players do not post here.





The answer is quite simple. If the nerf to high sec is sufficient to make me consider moving out of high sec, then that is the point where I quit the game.

I HAVE NO INTEREST IN LEAVING HIGH SEC... I've done it, and was disgusted by the players I found outside of high sec. Any nerf sufficient to make me want to leave high sec will simply result in me dropping the game instead.

Move L4s out of high sec, I'm gone. Lower the yield on mining to the point I can't pay for PLEX with about an hour a day of mining, I'm gone. Make it easier for people to pad their KB by killing me, I quit the game.





And for 2.4B a month in PLEX to pay for my 4 accounts.




As you point out, that depends on the size of the nerf. A 10% nerf? Probably not enough to force a lot of people out of game. Of course, it also wouldn't get anyone to move from high to null, and therefore, would not be sufficient to quell the calls of "nerf high sec".

A 50% nerf that would get people out of high sec and quell the "nerf high sec" cries? Watch the subscribed base crash.....




I play the game with other carebears, and like me, they have no desire to leave high sec. I enjoy playing the game with these other causal game playing, non-douche bags.

As long as CCP keeps the game as it is, where us carebear non-douche bags can enjoy playing the game with each other in high sec, we'll keep playing the game.

Nerf high sec to the point where people would consider leaving high sec, and they'll leave all right... by unsubscribing their accounts.

That is MY POINT!!!!


High sec is FULL of people that are not immature, giant douche bags. Attempts to try to get us to move to null where we have to be "friends" with giant douche-bags will simply result in us quitting the game. I know, I've seen me and many a friend drop after disillusionment with out attempts to move to null.


We're not cut out for null.. and we know it... and there is NOTHING you can do to make us move to null.

We'll quit before we move to null.



SO, I ask... how is the game improved for the OP, if all us "too sensitive" to play the game with a bunch of giant douche bags, drop the game?

I feel confident saying developers do indeed see prevailing concerns that are expressed on their forums as representing a significant cross section of their playerbase.

An abundance of posts about the same thing is generally a good indicator that a significant portion of the playerbase feels a certain way.

When pretty much every industrialist on the forums agrees that there's an imbalance, there is obviously an imbalance.

No one ever actually argues that "something" has to be done, everyone has an opinion on what that "something" is though.