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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#361 - 2012-12-18 14:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
WiS really has nothing to do the fact that people who play in the undeccable NPC corps, and use NPC stations that access can't be prevented to, are mose efficient industrialists in the game.

Industry balance is pretty much assbackwards in the way it's balanced as compared to most every other area of the game.

Lvl 1 missions do not pay more than level 5

High sec exploration sites are not more profitable than null ones.

NPC's in high sec pay lower bounties than any other area of the game.

The very fact that no one ever denies that this imbalance exits should be suffient evidence that high sec stations need to nerfed so that every other industrialists, those of us that join corps and play in player owned assets, is actually reward proper for assuming more risk and effort.

High sec, low sec, null sec, whatever. If you're an industrialist that actually takes part in the wider game, and assumes more risk and effort, you should want high sec NPC stations nerfed so that your effort is actually rewarded instead of being a penalty.


And to the guys that like to use the "if you raise prices too much" arguement. When everything stops getting sold at or below mineral value in high sec, you can start complaining about "what people can afford". NO ONE would have trouble paying more for anything in EVE; including the people who use Plex to pay for their subs.

PvE content pays out plenty of ISK for people to afford to spend more. If anything, NPC rats in hgh sec should get beefed up and their bounties incrased, just so that another viable high sec proffesion can exits as a means of generating more ISK. The rats should pose some sort of threat to barges and exhuamers, as well as be something other players don't just want to shoot at but should; instead of being the equivilent of a nat that you squash just because it's annoying the hell out of you.

There are plenty of miners in high sec, already supply more minerals than is actually needed in high sec. Reducing the refine rates in NPC stations is not going to cause them to quit, or have that huge an impact on mineral prices. It would however enourage them to join a player run corp, and work out of player owned structure in order to get 20-25% better refine rates.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#362 - 2012-12-18 15:42:40 UTC
Well, given the number of open slots in most parts of highsec, I'd say there is a net oversupply of manufacturing slots.

However, rather than cutting availability or raising cost of NPC slots, I'd prefer to see more improvements in player-owned factories.

The rumored POS refactoring is a good opportunity to make POS manufacturing competitive, by improving the interface and reducing the best-case line cost to below NPC base. If they think they need to raise the NPC cost to hit that target, I doubt it will really have much of an impact overall.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#363 - 2012-12-18 15:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Well, given the number of open slots in most parts of highsec, I'd say there is a net oversupply of manufacturing slots.

However, rather than cutting availability or raising cost of NPC slots, I'd prefer to see more improvements in player-owned factories.

The rumored POS refactoring is a good opportunity to make POS manufacturing competitive, by improving the interface and reducing the best-case line cost to below NPC base. If they think they need to raise the NPC cost to hit that target, I doubt it will really have much of an impact overall.

I disagree.

It should cost a guy in an NPC corp, working out of a high sec NPC station, 20k install and 5k per hour to build; not me in a player run station in null sec.

The cost to run jobs is backwards. Null stations, run by players, cost more than an NPC station that you will never lose access too.

You do not risk assets in a high sec NPC station. You should not get the best production costs when you're risking nothing.
It's entirely backwards in relation to every other frigging thing in the game.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#364 - 2012-12-18 16:19:45 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Well, given the number of open slots in most parts of highsec, I'd say there is a net oversupply of manufacturing slots.

However, rather than cutting availability or raising cost of NPC slots, I'd prefer to see more improvements in player-owned factories.

The rumored POS refactoring is a good opportunity to make POS manufacturing competitive, by improving the interface and reducing the best-case line cost to below NPC base. If they think they need to raise the NPC cost to hit that target, I doubt it will really have much of an impact overall.

I disagree.

It should cost a guy in an NPC corp, working out of a high sec NPC station, 20k install and 5k per hour to build; not me in a player run station in null sec.

The cost to run jobs is backwards. Null stations, run by players, cost more than an NPC station that you will never lose access too.

You do not risk assets in a high sec NPC station. You should not get the best production costs when you're risking nothing.
It's entirely backwards in relation to every other frigging thing in the game.

Honestly, given the supply of slots in highsec (tons and tons, rite) and how few you have in nullsec, it's only a consequence of the difference in amount of slots.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xavier Hasberin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2012-12-18 16:28:24 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Well, given the number of open slots in most parts of highsec, I'd say there is a net oversupply of manufacturing slots.

However, rather than cutting availability or raising cost of NPC slots, I'd prefer to see more improvements in player-owned factories.

The rumored POS refactoring is a good opportunity to make POS manufacturing competitive, by improving the interface and reducing the best-case line cost to below NPC base. If they think they need to raise the NPC cost to hit that target, I doubt it will really have much of an impact overall.

I disagree.

It should cost a guy in an NPC corp, working out of a high sec NPC station, 20k install and 5k per hour to build; not me in a player run station in null sec.

The cost to run jobs is backwards. Null stations, run by players, cost more than an NPC station that you will never lose access too.

You do not risk assets in a high sec NPC station. You should not get the best production costs when you're risking nothing.
It's entirely backwards in relation to every other frigging thing in the game.


But it's not backwards in relation to real life economics. Stick a high end factory in the middle of a country like the Congo, and even though you have tremendous access to high end resources you can't get just anywhere, you're not going to have anything but troubles and more troubles, forget about the fact that someone might come along and 'nationalize' your factory right into the ground. There's a reason you ship raw materials to a 'safe' country, they get turned into high end goods, and then those get shipped back out to the hinterlands.

The 'risk' about hisec industry involves transport to/from and demand/supply kicking the bejesus out of your profit margin. The way EVE works, #2 doesn't happen often.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#366 - 2012-12-18 16:37:03 UTC
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Well, given the number of open slots in most parts of highsec, I'd say there is a net oversupply of manufacturing slots.

However, rather than cutting availability or raising cost of NPC slots, I'd prefer to see more improvements in player-owned factories.

The rumored POS refactoring is a good opportunity to make POS manufacturing competitive, by improving the interface and reducing the best-case line cost to below NPC base. If they think they need to raise the NPC cost to hit that target, I doubt it will really have much of an impact overall.

I disagree.

It should cost a guy in an NPC corp, working out of a high sec NPC station, 20k install and 5k per hour to build; not me in a player run station in null sec.

The cost to run jobs is backwards. Null stations, run by players, cost more than an NPC station that you will never lose access too.

You do not risk assets in a high sec NPC station. You should not get the best production costs when you're risking nothing.
It's entirely backwards in relation to every other frigging thing in the game.


But it's not backwards in relation to real life economics. Stick a high end factory in the middle of a country like the Congo, and even though you have tremendous access to high end resources you can't get just anywhere, you're not going to have anything but troubles and more troubles, forget about the fact that someone might come along and 'nationalize' your factory right into the ground. There's a reason you ship raw materials to a 'safe' country, they get turned into high end goods, and then those get shipped back out to the hinterlands.

The 'risk' about hisec industry involves transport to/from and demand/supply kicking the bejesus out of your profit margin. The way EVE works, #2 doesn't happen often.



Very honestly, I don't give a **** what it's like in "the real world".

And frankly, I may be one of the worst people to argue "real world" balance to.

I play EVE to get the hell away from the real world, in which there's a very good chance that I'm terminally ill.

This is a game, and I play for fun. I want to leave the real world behind when I play EVE.
Just because something works like that in "the real world" doesn't mean it makes for more fun in EVE.


We are supposed to be rewarded for assuming more risk, taking on more effort, and for working with others to achieve something. People in NPC corps, using NPC stations, is completely backwards to the way everything else in EVE is balanced, and nothing in EVE is balanced based on the way the real world works.

Properly balancing industry will not mess up the economy, and the economy is the only thing in EVE deserving any kind of "real world" discussion.
Xavier Hasberin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#367 - 2012-12-18 16:47:10 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Xavier Hasberin wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Well, given the number of open slots in most parts of highsec, I'd say there is a net oversupply of manufacturing slots.

However, rather than cutting availability or raising cost of NPC slots, I'd prefer to see more improvements in player-owned factories.

The rumored POS refactoring is a good opportunity to make POS manufacturing competitive, by improving the interface and reducing the best-case line cost to below NPC base. If they think they need to raise the NPC cost to hit that target, I doubt it will really have much of an impact overall.

I disagree.

It should cost a guy in an NPC corp, working out of a high sec NPC station, 20k install and 5k per hour to build; not me in a player run station in null sec.

The cost to run jobs is backwards. Null stations, run by players, cost more than an NPC station that you will never lose access too.

You do not risk assets in a high sec NPC station. You should not get the best production costs when you're risking nothing.
It's entirely backwards in relation to every other frigging thing in the game.


But it's not backwards in relation to real life economics. Stick a high end factory in the middle of a country like the Congo, and even though you have tremendous access to high end resources you can't get just anywhere, you're not going to have anything but troubles and more troubles, forget about the fact that someone might come along and 'nationalize' your factory right into the ground. There's a reason you ship raw materials to a 'safe' country, they get turned into high end goods, and then those get shipped back out to the hinterlands.

The 'risk' about hisec industry involves transport to/from and demand/supply kicking the bejesus out of your profit margin. The way EVE works, #2 doesn't happen often.



Very honestly, I don't give a **** what it's like in "the real world".

And frankly, I may be one of the worst people to argue "real world" balance to.

I play EVE to get the hell away from the real world, in which there's a very good chance that I'm terminally ill.

This is a game, and I play for fun. I want to leave the real world behind when I play EVE.
Just because something works like that in "the real world" doesn't mean it makes for more fun in EVE.


We are supposed to be rewarded for assuming more risk, taking on more effort, and for working with others to achieve something. People in NPC corps, using NPC stations, is completely backwards to the way everything else in EVE is balanced, and nothing in EVE is balanced based on the way the real world works.

Properly balancing industry will not mess up the economy, and the economy is the only thing in EVE deserving any kind of "real world" discussion.


First, my sympathies, and hopefully you'll beat the odds.

Secondly, you ARE rewarded for assuming that risk and taking on that effort - you'll be doing things, seeing things, making things that casuals and mainly hiseccers like me can't do and never will. Now, you might not figure that's a good enough reward, but that's not anyone's fault but yours if you went in with eyes wide open.

And, gee, industry IS part of the economy, and therefore, by your definition,

Quote:
deserving any kind of "real world" discussion.


and I further disagree that your discussed changes of massive injections of slots to nullsec and nerfs to hisec will not 'mess up' the economy, because anything that makes null more self-sufficient MUST make null less reliant on hisec industry, and the consequent shifts in the economy will be negative to hisec players - which, as we know, form the large majority of the playerbase. (I believe the figure quoted was 71%.)

However, as you said - you don't give a ****, you just want what you want, and you want it now.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#368 - 2012-12-18 17:03:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Xavier Hasberin wrote:


First, my sympathies, and hopefully you'll beat the odds.

Secondly, you ARE rewarded for assuming that risk and taking on that effort - you'll be doing things, seeing things, making things that casuals and mainly hiseccers like me can't do and never will. Now, you might not figure that's a good enough reward, but that's not anyone's fault but yours if you went in with eyes wide open.

And, gee, industry IS part of the economy, and therefore, by your definition,

Quote:
deserving any kind of "real world" discussion.


and I further disagree that your discussed changes of massive injections of slots to nullsec and nerfs to hisec will not 'mess up' the economy, because anything that makes null more self-sufficient MUST make null less reliant on hisec industry, and the consequent shifts in the economy will be negative to hisec players - which, as we know, form the large majority of the playerbase. (I believe the figure quoted was 71%.)

However, as you said - you don't give a ****, you just want what you want, and you want it now.

That's what I keep saying though, you are NOT rewarded. No one who starts a corp and runs a player owned structure is rewarded.

They take on more risk and effort for no real gain.

I've never actually said anything about more slots.
Nor have I ever said anything about making null more self sufficient, nothing I've suggested would make null more self sufficient.

I've only suggested a nerf to a single group of players. People who do industrial work without ever leaving the NPC corps and only building in NPC stations. Being able to build capital ships and up isn't a "reward", it's just assuming more risk and effort given the way such production actually works.

Making NPC stations less efficient for those people in NPC corps is not going to have any impact on the economy, it would only make the least effieciant industrials instead of the most.

As an industrialist there is no benefit to joining a player run corp and working out of a player run structure. Buidlling caps and super caps is not a reward, it's not the same thing as building T2 items. Most industrialists, whether you're in a player corp or not, will never build a cap or super cap; just like most players will never do moon mining.

You're basically trying to boil it down to "fun". A guy in an NPC corp can't build a super, is not an excuse. Most peopel are never going to build one anyways, and no one lives in null just because they can build a titan.

You're talking about stuff that can take over a month to build, before you even factor in everythign else that needs to be build before you can even start building the ship itself. There's a reason people work together to guild those tings.

Those things do not justify the rest of industry benefiting the NPC corp industrialist.


PS: I keep saying that high sec player corps need to be reward, just as much as a null corp does when running your own structure.

Do not treat me like a null guy who's only championing changes for his own benefit. I'm clearly in favor of helping high sec indusrialist as much as null.

PPS: I also notice you keep posting with a guy in an NPC corp. Is it safe to assume that even if you're an alt, that your main is also a member of an NPC corp?

If so, for shame on you being a hypocrit. Seeing as the NPC corp industrialist is the only industrialist I want nerfed, you obviously disgree with me because you just want to remain the most efficient industrialist in the game.

Nor do I want it now. I want it with the PoS revamp, and the S & I UI overhaul.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#369 - 2012-12-18 17:09:51 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Most peopel are never going to build one anyways, and no one lives in null just because they can build a titan.


They live there to exercise power, including the ability to restrict access to the stations they've built. Anything exclusive costs more.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#370 - 2012-12-18 17:13:37 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Most peopel are never going to build one anyways, and no one lives in null just because they can build a titan.


They live there to exercise power, including the ability to restrict access to the stations they've built. Anything exclusive costs more.

No that is not why.

Few peopel make the decisions, the few do not reflect the many. Most of us are not there for those reason, the few that run things may be.

Nor does that have anything at all to do with anything I wrote.


NPC corp industrialist should not be the most efficient in the game. They need to be nerfed, for the benefit of every other industrialist in the game. High, low, and null, none of us should be at a disadvantage compared to the NPC corp guy.

It's working exactly that way.
You can not argue against it, nor can it be justified when the rest of the game is balanced against exactly that.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#371 - 2012-12-18 17:20:39 UTC
If nullsec industry is so bad, why do people make things there?

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#372 - 2012-12-18 17:24:09 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

High sec, low sec, null sec, whatever. If you're an industrialist that actually takes part in the wider game, and assumes more risk and effort, you should want high sec NPC stations nerfed so that your effort is actually rewarded instead of being a penalty.


Whatever cost you put on hi sec industry and research, it will ALWAYS be more worth doing than in null sec.
Hi sec is a broken square peg in a game of round holes, your and other guys approach at fixing it has NEVER worked in 10 years and will keep not working.

I would NEVER move 100B worth of BPOs over null sec, where all what will happen is to lose them earlier (gank) or later (station conquered). That would be an alliance sized effort but the thousands of players are not all in the top game alliance as far as I know.


Natsett Amuinn wrote:

And to the guys that like to use the "if you raise prices too much" arguement. When everything stops getting sold at or below mineral value in high sec, you can start complaining about "what people can afford".


This will NEVER happen, stuff will be ALWAYS be sold at or below mineral value, all it takes is a price swing to immediately make illiquid built commodies lag behind and drop in value compared to mineral value.


Natsett Amuinn wrote:

PvE content pays out plenty of ISK for people to afford to spend more. If anything, NPC rats in hgh sec should get beefed up and their bounties incrased, just so that another viable high sec proffesion can exits as a means of generating more ISK. The rats should pose some sort of threat to barges and exhuamers, as well as be something other players don't just want to shoot at but should; instead of being the equivilent of a nat that you squash just because it's annoying the hell out of you.


High value hi sec rats? Lol come give some! You know how much rat botters will rejoice? Safety AND high value rats, they will finally move their null sec bot ratters to hi sec.


Natsett Amuinn wrote:

There are plenty of miners in high sec, already supply more minerals than is actually needed in high sec.


Null seccers crying how mining in hi sec is more profitable than in null sec say the contrary.
It's all stuff whose value is entirely given by a supply vs demand chain, if hi sec minerals are worth a lot it's because there's a shortage of them.

Also, it's weeks most belts are super-stripped few hours past downtime (despite CCP reactivated daily respawn) that kind of contrasts with your supply idea.


Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Reducing the refine rates in NPC stations is not going to cause them to quit, or have that huge an impact on mineral prices. It would however enourage them to join a player run corp, and work out of player owned structure in order to get 20-25% better refine rates.


1) Most hi sec POSes are owned by 1 men corps, say goodbye to your "joining a player corp".
2) To get 20-25% better refine rates? Train some more skills, only new players will get the disadvantage.

There are already low refine rate stations in hi sec, I still get perfect refine, what are you going to do about that?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#373 - 2012-12-18 17:27:34 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


I've only suggested a nerf to a single group of players. People who do industrial work without ever leaving the NPC corps and only building in NPC stations. Being able to build capital ships and up isn't a "reward", it's just assuming more risk and effort given the way such production actually works.

Making NPC stations less efficient for those people in NPC corps is not going to have any impact on the economy, it would only make the least effieciant industrials instead of the most.

As an industrialist there is no benefit to joining a player run corp and working out of a player run structure. Buidlling caps and super caps is not a reward, it's not the same thing as building T2 items. Most industrialists, whether you're in a player corp or not, will never build a cap or super cap; just like most players will never do moon mining.


I know Goonswarm is the happy exception but let's talk about the rule: regardless of ANY structure, slots etc, the industrialist guys are seen as GAR BA GE by null sec corps and it's an ideology not an EvE shortcoming.

All you get told is that if they wanted to build / research something they'll just log in their alts and do it right there, you'll get told that POS fielding is forbidden, that you could be a spy and steal the stuff, whatever. In the end they just don't want the industrialist guy and that's it.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#374 - 2012-12-18 17:43:45 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
If nullsec industry is so bad, why do people make things there?

We don't make much stuff, except stuff that ~game mechanics~ don't allow to be built in highsec. Like titans, our favorite item that needs to have its production reduced.

If titans could be built in highsec, doubtless they would be cheaper, more plentiful, and used for scams in Jita 4-4

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#375 - 2012-12-18 17:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


I've only suggested a nerf to a single group of players. People who do industrial work without ever leaving the NPC corps and only building in NPC stations. Being able to build capital ships and up isn't a "reward", it's just assuming more risk and effort given the way such production actually works.

Making NPC stations less efficient for those people in NPC corps is not going to have any impact on the economy, it would only make the least effieciant industrials instead of the most.

As an industrialist there is no benefit to joining a player run corp and working out of a player run structure. Buidlling caps and super caps is not a reward, it's not the same thing as building T2 items. Most industrialists, whether you're in a player corp or not, will never build a cap or super cap; just like most players will never do moon mining.


I know Goonswarm is the happy exception but let's talk about the rule: regardless of ANY structure, slots etc, the industrialist guys are seen as GAR BA GE by null sec corps and it's an ideology not an EvE shortcoming.

All you get told is that if they wanted to build / research something they'll just log in their alts and do it right there, you'll get told that POS fielding is forbidden, that you could be a spy and steal the stuff, whatever. In the end they just don't want the industrialist guy and that's it.

Again, what the hell does any of that have to do with high sec industrial corps that actually work out of PoS's in high sec?

They are not being rewarded any more than any industrialist in null.


I am not making statements based solely on "where I play". I'm addressing industry as a whole in all areas of EVE.
Stop focusing on the words under my name.

It is not "just" a null issue.
Yet, it seems a bunch of guys in NPC corps keep responding as if that's all it is.

Coincidentally, not only is a goon saying buff high sec industrial corps, he's also saying nerf npc corp indusrialists. Who is it again that keeps trying to stear it back to being a problem with null. Oh look, guys posting with characters in NPC corps; go figure.

I'm not pointing out anything that every single industrialist in EVE can't plainly see.
Shylari Avada
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#376 - 2012-12-18 17:48:13 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Shylari Avada wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
WiS is the main thing killing EvE.


Walking in Station and Ambulation on a whole is such a minor complaint at this point, who really cares?

Most of the people complaining about WiS are the same people that log in, mine ice or do missions in their High Security safety blanket, in their little one man corp with 0% tax rate- doing their part in the choir of people singing "I don't overly enjoy EVE because I have no impact on the game" complaining about literally anything on the forums waiting for their next ice harvester cycle to finish.

The only thing 'killing EVE' is CCP actually listening to those mongoloids.


Glad you are so godlike to know who enjoys EvE or don't and who cares so much about having their penile impact on the game.


No sentence by sentence breakdown? Must have stepped on a nerve.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#377 - 2012-12-18 17:49:53 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


I've only suggested a nerf to a single group of players. People who do industrial work without ever leaving the NPC corps and only building in NPC stations. Being able to build capital ships and up isn't a "reward", it's just assuming more risk and effort given the way such production actually works.

Making NPC stations less efficient for those people in NPC corps is not going to have any impact on the economy, it would only make the least effieciant industrials instead of the most.

As an industrialist there is no benefit to joining a player run corp and working out of a player run structure. Buidlling caps and super caps is not a reward, it's not the same thing as building T2 items. Most industrialists, whether you're in a player corp or not, will never build a cap or super cap; just like most players will never do moon mining.


I know Goonswarm is the happy exception but let's talk about the rule: regardless of ANY structure, slots etc, the industrialist guys are seen as GAR BA GE by null sec corps and it's an ideology not an EvE shortcoming.


You seem like a smart person, but your preconceived notions are the road block to you seeing the truth.

You actually beleive their is some big bad ideology prevelent in null sec that advocates hate for people who GIVE other people things?

My corp doesn't pay rent or anyhting like that, we have a cooperative agreement where we builds ships for our Alliance and coalition. according to you we can expect our whole coaltion to turn on use any second for the sin of MAKING STUFF they use to shoot people with.....

Do you ever listen to yourself?
Quote:

All you get told is that if they wanted to build / research something they'll just log in their alts and do it right there, you'll get told that POS fielding is forbidden, that you could be a spy and steal the stuff, whatever. In the end they just don't want the industrialist guy and that's it.


I've been in Atlas, IT, -A-,Raiden, NCDot and INIT Mercs. I've been in null for 4 and a half years. None of what you just said is true. hell, I've got buddies in other null industrial corps like Ore Hogz (look em up). Back when i was in Raiden and then NCDot we actively recruited indy corps to come live in Vale and give us discounted stuff instead of cash.

You really think alliances are so full of hate they'd rather travel to jita than get free stuff at home.

Incredible.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#378 - 2012-12-18 17:55:40 UTC
Shylari Avada wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Shylari Avada wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
WiS is the main thing killing EvE.


Walking in Station and Ambulation on a whole is such a minor complaint at this point, who really cares?

Most of the people complaining about WiS are the same people that log in, mine ice or do missions in their High Security safety blanket, in their little one man corp with 0% tax rate- doing their part in the choir of people singing "I don't overly enjoy EVE because I have no impact on the game" complaining about literally anything on the forums waiting for their next ice harvester cycle to finish.

The only thing 'killing EVE' is CCP actually listening to those mongoloids.


Glad you are so godlike to know who enjoys EvE or don't and who cares so much about having their penile impact on the game.


No sentence by sentence breakdown? Must have stepped on a nerve.


No, that would require to be worth the time to do it.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#379 - 2012-12-18 17:57:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
If nullsec industry is so bad, why do people make things there?

We don't make much stuff, except stuff that ~game mechanics~ don't allow to be built in highsec. Like titans, our favorite item that needs to have its production reduced.

If titans could be built in highsec, doubtless they would be cheaper, more plentiful, and used for scams in Jita 4-4

And sovereign nullsec is more efficient than anyplace else at making Titans and Supercarriers.

How much more manufacturing capacity could you possibly devote to that purpose?

How much more manufacturing capacity would you need before that particular market was saturated?


Highsec is pre-nerfed there, you can't build capital ships in highsec.


The cost of manufacturing ammo in nullsec is obviously moot if all the manufacturing capacity is taken up with higher priority jobs, and if there is enough demand for those higher priority jobs to soak up considerably more manufacturing capacity then that is what any additional capacity will be used for.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#380 - 2012-12-18 17:59:35 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


No, that would require to be worth the time to do it.

May I ask,

Do you really thinkt he balance if fine?
If you run a PoS to build stuff in high sec, putting your possesion at risk of being taken from, for no actual added benefit?

Exactly what is the benefit of running a station in high sec, that can bel blown up, requires you to be in a corp that can be war decced, and requires you to fuel on a regular basis?

Do you really believe that you are being rewarded for all of that added effort and risk, as apposed to someone who is in an NPC corp and using NPC stations to build the same things you do?