These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Communication Center » EVE General Discussion » You CANT Nerf HighSec!

Topic is locked indefinitely.

First pagePrevious page1617181920Next pageLast page

You CANT Nerf HighSec! First post First post First post
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

Buzzy Warstl

Quantum Flux Foundry

Likes received: 602

#341 - 2012-12-17 20:35:20 UTC

Weaselior wrote:

Buzzy Warstl wrote:

So, because you want the ability to run Gallente towers in Caldari-ish space, and don't want to mine low ores locally, you *need* to trade with highsec to operate in nullsec?

I'll grant that it is more efficient and profitable to do so, but that supply line could get cut off tomorrow and your region-appropriate towers would still be fuelable, and you still could get all the minerals you needed (even if less efficiently).

It might not be efficient enough to hold the space against someone who did have a highsec supply line, but nullsec isn't actually *lacking* any necessary resource.

capital ships, t2 ships, is there is no end to your wrongitude (you cannot make racial t2 ships out of only your racial r32)

plus racial towers are deliberately designed to have specific bonuses for specific tasks and you are not intended to use one tower for all tower uses

basically were we to change 0.0 so t2 ships did not exist and you created uniracial empires at cap level and above and decided that you should not be able to use multiple tower types, in that game transportation would not be needed

fortunately we do not play that dumb game

Moon goo is weird and broken, yet all you need for that is nullsec trade. The same thing really for ice.

You don't *need* empire at all if you can work out trade arrangements with other nullsec entities.

And I know perfectly well that different towers are optimized for different tasks, that doesn't mean you can't use them "off-label", they are just less efficient.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Natsett Amuinn

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 2,232

#342 - 2012-12-17 20:35:26 UTC | Edited by: Natsett Amuinn

If you're in a high sec corp, you should want station services nerfed in NPC stations, and PoS's revamped so that you don't need to anchor to a moon.

Industrialists in corps that can not be war decced, and who minimize the risk their assets face by working out of NPC stations, should not be as efficient as every other industrialist.

Anyone that would argue against a high sec nerf is willfully ignoring the state of industry balance throughout the entire game.
It's not just null sec industrialists that are trivialized, high sec industry corps are as well.

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#343 - 2012-12-17 20:45:33 UTC

Buzzy Warstl wrote:

You don't *need* empire at all if you can work out trade arrangements with other nullsec entities.

So our blue lists are a good thing for EVE Online?

I thought agreements was the main thing killing eve

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Buzzy Warstl

Quantum Flux Foundry

Likes received: 602

#344 - 2012-12-17 20:50:08 UTC

Alavaria Fera wrote:

Buzzy Warstl wrote:

You don't *need* empire at all if you can work out trade arrangements with other nullsec entities.

So our blue lists are a good thing for EVE Online?

I thought agreements was the main thing killing eve

WiS is the main thing killing EvE.

There's plenty of fighting in nullsec last I looked, you just have to go to a contested region if you want a lot of it.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Antisocial Malkavian

Antisocial Malkavians

Likes received: 767

#345 - 2012-12-18 03:30:03 UTC | Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian

Why High sec could be nerfed and it wont matter

In a Mack in high sec:

1275m3/180s so 1275 per 3 min. there are 20 cycles then in an hour, so I should get 25500m3 per hour by the math. Yet, Im looking at 25004.9 in slightly less than a half hour - I think it doesnt count fleet bonuses

9 mil an hour or so depending on how much attention I pay when the strip miners stop running - with one account I have two.
I can PLEX one account in 64 hours (or 32 hours with both accounts). I could buy a freighter in 166.6666666666667 hours to buy a freighter or 83.5 hours

Theres about 720 hours in a month. Thats of course assuming 23/7 mining which I dont do due to work/sleep/IRL/etc

mining just veldspar.

So unless you removed all minerals from high sec I can still quite easily PLEX a second (or more actually) mining account living in high sec

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#346 - 2012-12-18 03:41:35 UTC

Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Big bonuses can be had from a skilled up Orca (in highsec) booster with mindlink. I believe you can get nearly up to 20mil, possibly less when you take into account switching crystals, warping about to drop off ore etc etc. Depending on where you are mining in highsec, constantly popping asteroids or even clearing whole belts might be an issue.

Antisocial Malkavian

Antisocial Malkavians

Likes received: 767

#347 - 2012-12-18 03:44:04 UTC | Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian

Alavaria Fera wrote:

Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Yeah Im not doing it really really hard core, IE said Orca, this is just 2 macks
but EVEN just 2 macks you can make this much. So they can nerf high sec, they can take the lvl 4s and move em to low/null. Youll just have the ppl mining instead unless you guys get back to full speed ganking and making miners scared again

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#348 - 2012-12-18 03:58:57 UTC

Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Yes, because the booster needs its own account, without enough miners, it might not be worthwhile to go through the expense and trouble of training that.

Thanks to CCP's buffs, it's pretty hard to make your mackinaw worthwhile to gank. Seems pretty working as intended. I don't know what sort of upper limit you might see on (contiguous) highsec's mineral output. I believe a bunch of outlying (far from Jita) systems are hardly mined, but I don't know, I checked out a few and they were pretty empty - when I was there -. Might have been just cherry picked though, I think not all the ores were there that could have been.

Malphilos

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 383

#349 - 2012-12-18 03:59:54 UTC

Weaselior wrote:

Malphilos wrote:

Specifically import from highsec, which you've weaseled (name source? naw, too easy) into "Well, you have to import from somewhere". Nonetheless it's looking more and more like it is too easy to import from high, especially when you say things like,

But that whole idea, in spite of the fact that you quite obviously agree, seems to have really set you off.

I'll say it again: because of the (now agreed at the very least relative) ease of transport from highsec, nerfing high will not achieve the ends you claim to desire, short of destroying highsec entirely.

the annoyance is that your entire arguing strategy is throw up chaff

The fact that you have to pull out the bit where you (in a moment of distraction I'm sure) actually agreed with my point, suggests you know it's not just chaff.

Import and transport is fine, the relative ease of import from highsec which you pointed out is what I'm driving at.

Nobody mines veld because there's more money to be made doing something else and importing from Jita or wherever is too easy to make a difference. Were it less easy, local production would be more valuable. That's basic.

Weaselior wrote:

...because a certain level transportation is an absolute necessity for a functional 0.0 it simply cannot be nerfed beyond a specific point, and that point makes certain parts of 0.0 industry still absolutely inferior to buying in jita and importing.

In much the same vein, it is not possible to nerf highsec to the point where it will have the desired impact on null. (see above) The meat robots (or whatever the cool kids are calling them this week) will still sit and stare a rocks. All day, everyday.

Antisocial Malkavian

Antisocial Malkavians

Likes received: 767

#350 - 2012-12-18 04:06:11 UTC | Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian

and my math was wrong because the mouse over info isnt taking my t2 crystals into account.

so 9,000,000 x 1.75 or 15,750,000 per hour

or something... stupid maths

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#351 - 2012-12-18 04:09:00 UTC

Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

and my math was wrong because the mouse over info isnt taking my t2 crystals into account.

so 9,000,000 x 1.75 or 15,750,000 per hour

or something... stupid maths

Ah, that's a lot closer to what I was seeing. That is without boosts, right?

Antisocial Malkavian

Antisocial Malkavians

Likes received: 767

#352 - 2012-12-18 04:25:07 UTC | Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian

Alavaria Fera wrote:

Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

and my math was wrong because the mouse over info isnt taking my t2 crystals into account.

so 9,000,000 x 1.75 or 15,750,000 per hour

or something... stupid maths

Ah, that's a lot closer to what I was seeing. That is without boosts, right?

Only boosts I have is mining foreman 5 and Director 3 but no mining links and no orca

so the volume might be slightly higher with the mining foreman boost as Im fleeted with the second account

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#353 - 2012-12-18 04:28:28 UTC | Edited by: Alavaria Fera

Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Alavaria Fera wrote:

Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

and my math was wrong because the mouse over info isnt taking my t2 crystals into account.

so 9,000,000 x 1.75 or 15,750,000 per hour

or something... stupid maths

Ah, that's a lot closer to what I was seeing. That is without boosts, right?

Only boosts I have is mining foreman 5 and Director 3 but no mining links and no orca

so the volume might be slightly higher with the mining foreman boost as Im fleeted with the second account

Yeah, I think if you add maxed out orca links, that will get you close to the 20mil I was seeing.

It's about 750mil for the orca, another 1 bil for the implant, and of course a good bit of time to get the booster all trained up to Mining Director V, Cybernetics V and Industrial Command Ships V. The Orca is pretty hard to gank as long as you also get Mechanics and Hull Upgrades up to fit DCII and reinforced bulkheads in the lows. At least you don't have to use it for anything else, you could train for pvp alt on the account afterwards.

With about four miners, the gains from the orca pays for its own plex a month. With 2, it won't. Of course, having fleet bonuses from just a miner with Foreman V is doable, though the links help a lot with yield, miner range and you can even help your tank via shield links.

Shylari Avada

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 300

#354 - 2012-12-18 08:39:25 UTC

Buzzy Warstl wrote:

WiS is the main thing killing EvE.

Walking in Station and Ambulation on a whole is such a minor complaint at this point, who really cares?

Most of the people complaining about WiS are the same people that log in, mine ice or do missions in their High Security safety blanket, in their little one man corp with 0% tax rate- doing their part in the choir of people singing "I don't overly enjoy EVE because I have no impact on the game" complaining about literally anything on the forums waiting for their next ice harvester cycle to finish.

The only thing 'killing EVE' is CCP actually listening to those mongoloids.

Mara Rinn

Cosmic Goo Convertor

Likes received: 6,095

#355 - 2012-12-18 09:12:55 UTC

Alavaria Fera wrote:

With about four miners, the gains from the orca pays for its own plex a month. With 2, it won't. Of course, having fleet bonuses from just a miner with Foreman V is doable, though the links help a lot with yield, miner range and you can even help your tank via shield links.

The simple convenience of the flying jetcan and 25km mining laser range makes the orca useful, yield be damned.

Day 0 Advice for New Players

Bump Truck

Doomheim

Likes received: 284

#356 - 2012-12-18 09:50:10 UTC

Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Firstly no one's trying to kill mining, I think as long as the game exists there'll be mining in High Sec.

Of course something your argument assumes is that, as now, there will be an abundance of asteroids in High Sec. If, for example, I'm not proposing this, the number of rocks were cut by 90% then you would fly round the belts and find then stripped and wouldn't be able to mine all the time like you can now.

Also I'm surprised you would do 64 hours of effort for a Plex, that sounds like too much to me, everyone values their time differently, but RL effort pays signifcantly more than that.

MR DEMOS

Pyke Syndicate

Solyaris Chtonium

Likes received: 24

#357 - 2012-12-18 12:38:48 UTC

i don't know if this has been mentioned before or not so i'll restate. If you nerf high sec to much. Those players who plex will have a harder time paying for the plex which in turn makes things less fun if you have to grind for a few weeks to pay for your account. Would you do it? The reason i stay in high sec now is for 2 reasons. 1st my real life is far to busy to be in Null sec becasue of the constant changing of the guard out there. 2nd i really don't like anyone out there... And the times i have been out there it seems there are far more assholes than cool people. I think these 2 points reprsent a larger populas than most relize. Being blobbed and stuck in a station and some of CCPs Massive Fails with PVP in the past have left most of us Skidish to say the least.

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#358 - 2012-12-18 13:32:00 UTC

Shylari Avada wrote:

Buzzy Warstl wrote:

WiS is the main thing killing EvE.

Glad you are so godlike to know who enjoys EvE or don't and who cares so much about having their penile impact on the game.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials

Buzzy Warstl

Quantum Flux Foundry

Likes received: 602

#359 - 2012-12-18 13:48:48 UTC

Shylari Avada wrote:

Buzzy Warstl wrote:

WiS is the main thing killing EvE.

Or perhaps people with horribly broken sarcasm detectors.

EvE has been doing just fine since they started getting serious about improving the whole game. I'm sure WiS will resurface once they think they can do it right and it won't be the abomination it was the first try (after all, sooner or later the Dust 514 graphics team will need a change of pace).

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Seleia O'Sinnor

Drop of Honey

Likes received: 513

#360 - 2012-12-18 14:02:16 UTC | Edited by: Seleia O'Sinnor

Instead of nerfing hisec, why not just boost low/null? Everything is relative, isn't it? So make it worthwhile while risking your butt in low/null. I guess the people have a point that it's not only reward that keeps people in hisec. If people are not moving and rewards a dropped heavily, everything could become just more expensive. Let's see. I won't ragequit and watch the show. Eventually I'll just die a slow death.

EDIT: Remove incursions from the game.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1, but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.

First pagePrevious page1617181920Next pageLast page