EVE General Discussion

the first question is nonsensical

the second is that risk is a cost and when i don't have to pay the cost naturally i will not; in this case i won't mine for trit anywhere but if i chose to do so i would mine it in a 1.0 system since i'm invulnerable and get the same payment

basically your point boils down to "people in 0.0 should be dumber", while i'm arguing that the game should be structured assuming normal behavior


this is useless filibustering nonsense

Industrialist that don't leave the npc corps and only work out of high sec npc stations shouldn't be receiving all benefits, while every other industrial gains nothing for assuming more risk and effort.

There's no argument against that.

"those goons are being so unreasonable by demanding if they make the effort to source facts i don't handwave away facts"

in any case the figures are derived from diagoras tweets and QENs which allow you to work out what percent of minerals get used on what ships, given that Dinsdale Pirannha will ignore them i will point him to diagoras and let him reason out the numbers and wash my hands of him

you're poorly weaseling around things again

this came from a discussion on transport costs. each region must import 3/4ths of its fuel even if it mines all of the "on-race" fuel locally, and 3/4ths of its r8s/r32s

for transport costs it is utterly irrelevant if you import from other null regions (where you have theoretically conquered parts of each quadrant): they must be laborously moved from across the map (and it will be significantly harder/more expensive to do this than from jita). therefore my original point re: minimum necessary transport capability remains untouched and you are still wrong: 0.0 absolutely requires a specific amount of transport capability. period. end of discussion, even if we pretend that mining trit in 0.0 is a thing someone might do. we have conclusively demonstrated you are wrong, and that you cannot avoid the need to import things for 0.0 to function.

basically you are being a dumb trying to avoid actual facts through adding spurious, irrelevant requirements and hoping i cannot recall the actual discussion which is over the absolute necessity of transport capability

best of luck in your future endeavors and i hope they are more successful than this

please see above re: spurious useless requirements you add in to try and disguise the fact you are clearly wrong



transporting minerals from highsec isn't easy. if it was made impossible nobody would produce in 0.0 because you would need astronomical trit prices to make people mine the stuff, and people would simply base out of empire-0.0 gates or use t2 ships exclusively

if you make it impossible to import ships and compressed mins to vfk we will cease living in vfk and live in torrinos/ec- instead or just use t2 and nothing else in dek because it will make it cost-prohibitive to live in 0.0 and use t1 ships compared to all other options

You should know from useless.

On the other hand, I personally watched a fine game die because the game designers didn't deal with the question "what do you play while you are waiting for your team to come together so you can play this one?"

The point of the game is in the playing of it.

If you want to blow other people's ships up, anything that gets more targets where you can find them quickly is convenient. You get your reward (blowing ships up) with very little risk of not being able to find a target. The busier portions of nullsec are very nice for this.

Highsec mission running is very nearly risk free in this respect (log in, talk to agent, go to mission location, blow up red +'s). You might get in over your head if you are doing missions that you aren't fully prepared for, or if another player comes in and decides to shoot you, but those risks are manageable and rarely result in any long term disruption. The fundamental risk of logging in and not being able to play the game in the way you had planned is very low.

In nullsec the corresponding risk is *much* greater. You can log in to discover that your POS was reinforced while you were sleeping, or you had to go away for the weekend and log in to an unfamiliar highsec station when you get back. These things can totally mess up your access to the parts of the game you want to play.

If you couldn't understand this from the more concise version you quoted above, that's your problem.

Specifically import from highsec, which you've weaseled (name source? naw, too easy) into "Well, you have to import from somewhere". Nonetheless it's looking more and more like it is too easy to import from high, especially when you say things like,

emphasis added.

But that whole idea, in spite of the fact that you quite obviously agree, seems to have really set you off.

I'll say it again: because of the (now agreed at the very least relative) ease of transport from highsec, nerfing high will not achieve the ends you claim to desire, short of destroying highsec entirely.

the annoyance is that your entire arguing strategy is throw up chaff

transport costs are important for a very specific reason. i elaborated on that reason and how it affected 0.0. from there, after you challenged it and were proven wrong, you have attempted to insert random new require you attempted to pretend they were not through claiming you could get them elsewhere in 0.0, ignoring that you would have to transport it there

this is not the complete argument which I have laid out in full elsewhere I am merely crushing your claims that you can deal with this through transport costs. you cannot and i have completely disproven that, because you cannot have 0.0 without a specific minimum ability to import things. you have gone "but you could import from elsewhere in 0.0!" and this is dumb and irrelevant. it's still transportation cost. because a certain level transportation is an absolute necessity for a functional 0.0 it simply cannot be nerfed beyond a specific point, and that point makes certain parts of 0.0 industry still absolutely inferior to buying in jita and importing. as a result, your "nerf transportation" solution is not viable and must be discarded.

now, there are further reasons why highsec needs to be nerfed that play into this but given your difficulty with the simple concept of transportation it seems pointless to get into those. suffice to say your lack of understanding on transportation is merely one of the stars in the constellation of your wrongness, and it alone is not intended to complete the shining WRONG message written in the heavens to mark your wrongitude. should you wish the complete picture you need merely read some of the articles written on it

also once we're at the level of saying "well we could make each 0.0 region an autarky where you cannot import anything ever" we have basically thrown out everything good about the economic side of the game so if you're reduced to that in order to defend not nerfing highsec, case closed

well anyone who was expecting them to be in that post