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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Pretty GuyYeah
#181 - 2012-12-17 14:15:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Pretty GuyYeah
Highsec offers citizenship.

These bad nullsec alliances do not. They are simply a large group of pirates. If they would actually use their 'empire' for something and create content maybe people would be more easily persuaded into venturing out there.



But no. Conquer all of nullsec. Do absolutely nothing with it. Cry about nerfing hisec.

Stay classy, nullbears Pirate

Post with your main.

A legend walks among us, a genius so significant he so dares to degrade himself as camouflage when you dispute.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#182 - 2012-12-17 14:37:07 UTC
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Highsec offers citizenship.

These bad nullsec alliances do not.


Rubbish. I am much more a "citizen" of the region I helped finance, build, organize and actively patrol and defend every day than someone who logs in to high sec.

High sec offers single-player EVE, and that's it. In nullsec multi-player interaction is mandatory. Your alliance must have diplomatic ties. Your alliance members must participate in the alliance. Your corp CEO's must come together and work as a team on a single plan of action. And "single-player I'm in it for myself and screw the rest of you" people are weeded out and destroyed because they are the death of nullsec alliances.

It's more about playstyle than "citizenship".
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#183 - 2012-12-17 14:51:53 UTC
You can't nerf highsec because any payout level for highsec that allows play room for people who haven't reached perfect skills will be abusable by people who have.

Period.

I'm not saying "nerfing highsec is bad", I'm saying "nerfing highsec is impossible".

If 2 or 3 people with less than perfect skills and fits made from rat droppings can run L4 missions, the player with perfect skills and knowledge about how the missions run will be able to multi-box 2 or 3 L4's at a time.

Missions being scalable content, you can have tens of thousands of people doing this at once.

It doesn't matter at that point what the individual rewards of nullsec play are, highsec mission runner income can swamp it out by sheer force of numbers.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#184 - 2012-12-17 15:00:35 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
You can't nerf highsec because any payout level for highsec that allows play room for people who haven't reached perfect skills will be abusable by people who have.

Period.

I'm not saying "nerfing highsec is bad", I'm saying "nerfing highsec is impossible".

If 2 or 3 people with less than perfect skills and fits made from rat droppings can run L4 missions, the player with perfect skills and knowledge about how the missions run will be able to multi-box 2 or 3 L4's at a time.

Missions being scalable content, you can have tens of thousands of people doing this at once.

It doesn't matter at that point what the individual rewards of nullsec play are, highsec mission runner income can swamp it out by sheer force of numbers.

Ok, I get it.

What peopel are already doing in high sec, is why it would be impossible to "nerf" high sec, because they would do what they're already doing?


Yeah, that looks like extremely sound logic there.


So people don't grind the hell out of high sec lvl 4 missions in rediculously expensive ships because it's the equivilent of using an ATM machine that broke and keeps spitting out hundred dollar bills.

That's obviously not happening in high sec.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#185 - 2012-12-17 15:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Malcanis wrote:

Can you name 2 countries in the world that allow unrestricted, royalty-free resource extraction?
Because I'm pretty sure that you don't live in one of them.


As far as i know, i was talking about nullsec attitude.... ("1:What are you doing here?..2:oh just passing by... 1:booom).

According your "free resources".. You can sell mining/manufacturing/whatever permisions... for example XXX isk a day (oh look, another profit opportunity).

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Pretty GuyYeah
#186 - 2012-12-17 15:04:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Pretty GuyYeah
Ptraci wrote:
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Highsec offers citizenship.

These bad nullsec alliances do not.


Rubbish. I am much more a "citizen" of the region I helped finance, build, organize and actively patrol and defend every day than someone who logs in to high sec.

High sec offers single-player EVE, and that's it. In nullsec multi-player interaction is mandatory. Your alliance must have diplomatic ties. Your alliance members must participate in the alliance. Your corp CEO's must come together and work as a team on a single plan of action. And "single-player I'm in it for myself and screw the rest of you" people are weeded out and destroyed because they are the death of nullsec alliances.

It's more about playstyle than "citizenship".



Wrong. I'm sorry, but.. wrong.

In hisec you have four empires of which you're a 'citizen'.

In nullsec you have hige alliances of pirates who kill you as soon they have the option to do so. This is not an empire. An empire doesn't do that. It's a clutch of priates and nothing else. If they actually want people to live in their empire they should provide the content for it; not kill everyone.

You wouldn't find many people living in high sec either if CONCORD consistently tried to kill you, rendering everything you do in hisec impossible.

Same goes for nullsec alliances.

Your logic is flawed and bad, and you should feel bad.

Post with your main.

A legend walks among us, a genius so significant he so dares to degrade himself as camouflage when you dispute.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#187 - 2012-12-17 15:11:12 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

Can you name 2 countries in the world that allow unrestricted, royalty-free resource extraction?
Because I'm pretty sure that you don't live in one of them.


As far as i know, i was talking about nullsecers attitude.... ("1:What are you doing here?..2:oh just passing by... 1:booom).

According your "free resources".. You can sell mining/manufacturing/whatever permisions... for example XXX isk a day (oh look, another profit opportunity).

Why do you guys keep using that as an "excuse"?

If I can't trust the guy next to me in high sec, why in the world would I trust that lone guy "who just wants to pass through" more?

Oh, he's deffinately not scouting our space? He can't possibly be looking for stations that produce super caps, or what system might mining OP's be working in today.


YOU are not the person we want to come to null sec, because you obviously have an issue with PvP. People who don't mind PvP don't complain that they flew through someone elses space, that they need to keep secure and as free of apposing intel as possible, and got shot. Those people understand that if you're not blue your probably not a friend, and your presence is a threat.

It doesn't matter what they do, you'll never leave high sec, and that's fine.
It's totally undertandable if someone doesn't enjoy playing someplace that allows everyone to shoot them with no consequence.

It is not acceptable that the places that have that added risk don't pay out any better, and in some cases actually worse than, high sec.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#188 - 2012-12-17 15:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:



Wrong. I'm sorry, but.. wrong.

In hisec you have four empires of which you're a 'citizen'.

In nullsec you have hige alliances of pirates who kill you as soon they have the option to do so. This is not an empire. An empire doesn't do that. It's a clutch of priates and nothing else. If they actually want people to live in their empire they should provide the content for it; not kill everyone.

You wouldn't find many people living in high sec either if CONCORD consistently tried to kill you, rendering everything you do in hisec impossible.

Same goes for nullsec alliances.

Your logic is flawed and bad, and you should feel bad.

You're just ranting about why you won't go to null, and it's entirely because someone can shoot you.

You're not the kind of person null isn't supposed to be attracting, you're obviously afraid of the risks inolved.

In fact, you're exactly the kind of person that needs to be ganked repeatedly in high sec.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#189 - 2012-12-17 15:19:39 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
You can't nerf highsec because any payout level for highsec that allows play room for people who haven't reached perfect skills will be abusable by people who have.

Period.

I'm not saying "nerfing highsec is bad", I'm saying "nerfing highsec is impossible".

If 2 or 3 people with less than perfect skills and fits made from rat droppings can run L4 missions, the player with perfect skills and knowledge about how the missions run will be able to multi-box 2 or 3 L4's at a time.

Missions being scalable content, you can have tens of thousands of people doing this at once.

It doesn't matter at that point what the individual rewards of nullsec play are, highsec mission runner income can swamp it out by sheer force of numbers.

Ok, I get it.

What peopel are already doing in high sec, is why it would be impossible to "nerf" high sec, because they would do what they're already doing?


Yeah, that looks like extremely sound logic there.


So people don't grind the hell out of high sec lvl 4 missions in rediculously expensive ships because it's the equivilent of using an ATM machine that broke and keeps spitting out hundred dollar bills.

That's obviously not happening in high sec.

It doesn't matter what it is. If it is profitable at all for people who haven't been playing for the months to years needed to get perfect skills, and it is scalable so that nobody is excluded from playing the game just because someone else logged in first, then it will be abusable by people with better character skills and superior player knowledge.

Period.

It doesn't matter how it is structured unless people get locked out of the content when their skill level gets too high.

"I'm sorry, you've to 20M skill points, you aren't allowed to run L1 missions any more. Go find a nice Gallente girl."

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#190 - 2012-12-17 15:24:18 UTC
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Highsec offers citizenship.

These bad nullsec alliances do not.


Rubbish. I am much more a "citizen" of the region I helped finance, build, organize and actively patrol and defend every day than someone who logs in to high sec.

High sec offers single-player EVE, and that's it. In nullsec multi-player interaction is mandatory. Your alliance must have diplomatic ties. Your alliance members must participate in the alliance. Your corp CEO's must come together and work as a team on a single plan of action. And "single-player I'm in it for myself and screw the rest of you" people are weeded out and destroyed because they are the death of nullsec alliances.

It's more about playstyle than "citizenship".



Wrong. I'm sorry, but.. wrong.

In hisec you have four empires of which you're a 'citizen'.



In what sense are you a "citizen" of a hi-sec empire? Do you have any obligations? Any penalty for disloyalty? Do you serve them in any way?

No. At best, you're a mercenary who can uproot and work for a different master at any time with no consequences whatsoever.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#191 - 2012-12-17 15:24:43 UTC
Bump Truck wrote:
Secondly people subscribe to EVE because it is awesome, and it’s gameplay makes it into the gaming press because of it’s awesomeness and then unsub because of the learning curve and elite jerks who take but dont give* (I fixed that for you)*. This is what CCP need to protect for the long term health of the game and overall profitability, not pandering to an irrational few.




You mean pandering to a few pilots who want high sec nerfed right.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#192 - 2012-12-17 15:26:16 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

Can you name 2 countries in the world that allow unrestricted, royalty-free resource extraction?
Because I'm pretty sure that you don't live in one of them.


As far as i know, i was talking about nullsec attitude.... ("1:What are you doing here?..2:oh just passing by... 1:booom).

According your "free resources".. You can sell mining/manufacturing/whatever permisions... for example XXX isk a day (oh look, another profit opportunity).



As far as I know, I was replying to your assertion that only "getto" African countries restrict and control their resources.

I was asking you to cite 2 examples out of the 140 so countries in the word that aren't African that don't restrict and control resources within their sovereign territory, because I know full well that there aren't any and that you're 100% wrong.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#193 - 2012-12-17 15:27:31 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:

It doesn't matter what it is. If it is profitable at all for people who haven't been playing for the months to years needed to get perfect skills, and it is scalable so that nobody is excluded from playing the game just because someone else logged in first, then it will be abusable by people with better character skills and superior player knowledge.

Period.

It doesn't matter how it is structured unless people get locked out of the content when their skill level gets too high.

"I'm sorry, you've to 20M skill points, you aren't allowed to run L1 missions any more. Go find a nice Gallente girl."

What?

When did anyone ever say anything about increasing mission difficulty?
What does reducing the amount missions pay, or thining NPC drops in high sec, or incrasing the taxes in high sec, have to do with anyone being able to do a mission?
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#194 - 2012-12-17 15:30:55 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
You can't nerf highsec because any payout level for highsec that allows play room for people who haven't reached perfect skills will be abusable by people who have.

Period.

I'm not saying "nerfing highsec is bad", I'm saying "nerfing highsec is impossible".

If 2 or 3 people with less than perfect skills and fits made from rat droppings can run L4 missions, the player with perfect skills and knowledge about how the missions run will be able to multi-box 2 or 3 L4's at a time.

Missions being scalable content, you can have tens of thousands of people doing this at once.

It doesn't matter at that point what the individual rewards of nullsec play are, highsec mission runner income can swamp it out by sheer force of numbers.

Ok, I get it.

What peopel are already doing in high sec, is why it would be impossible to "nerf" high sec, because they would do what they're already doing?


Yeah, that looks like extremely sound logic there.


So people don't grind the hell out of high sec lvl 4 missions in rediculously expensive ships because it's the equivilent of using an ATM machine that broke and keeps spitting out hundred dollar bills.

That's obviously not happening in high sec.



Somebody is really jealous they didnt get that red rider pellet gun huh? Dude we get it. You sound like my 10yr old daughter "Its not Fair" damn you cry more than my toddlers.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#195 - 2012-12-17 15:31:35 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:

It doesn't matter what it is. If it is profitable at all for people who haven't been playing for the months to years needed to get perfect skills, and it is scalable so that nobody is excluded from playing the game just because someone else logged in first, then it will be abusable by people with better character skills and superior player knowledge.

Period.

It doesn't matter how it is structured unless people get locked out of the content when their skill level gets too high.

"I'm sorry, you've to 20M skill points, you aren't allowed to run L1 missions any more. Go find a nice Gallente girl."

What?

When did anyone ever say anything about increasing mission difficulty?
What does reducing the amount missions pay, or thining NPC drops in high sec, or incrasing the taxes in high sec, have to do with anyone being able to do a mission?




Has no one ever told you how rude it is to interfere when a dude is fighting a strawman?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#196 - 2012-12-17 15:32:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Malcanis wrote:
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
Highsec offers citizenship.

These bad nullsec alliances do not.


Rubbish. I am much more a "citizen" of the region I helped finance, build, organize and actively patrol and defend every day than someone who logs in to high sec.

High sec offers single-player EVE, and that's it. In nullsec multi-player interaction is mandatory. Your alliance must have diplomatic ties. Your alliance members must participate in the alliance. Your corp CEO's must come together and work as a team on a single plan of action. And "single-player I'm in it for myself and screw the rest of you" people are weeded out and destroyed because they are the death of nullsec alliances.

It's more about playstyle than "citizenship".



Wrong. I'm sorry, but.. wrong.

In hisec you have four empires of which you're a 'citizen'.



In what sense are you a "citizen" of a hi-sec empire? Do you have any obligations? Any penalty for disloyalty? Do you serve them in any way?

No. At best, you're a mercenary who can uproot and work for a different master at any time with no consequences whatsoever.

Stop it. He's just trying to bait people into pointless arguements that eventually result in these type of threads getting locked.

CCP doesnt' listen to people like him. He's just one of the anit-pvp guys. There's rarely any logic in the kinds of posts you see from guys like this. It's not about a discussion for them, but trying to spew as much vitriol at "evil PvPers" as they can.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#197 - 2012-12-17 15:33:10 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

As far as I know, I was replying to your assertion that only "getto" African countries restrict and control their resources.


My original post: "This is the problem of gheto-thinking of low/null dwellers (shoot anything that moves) , not by the game mechanic."

Now show me where im speaking about free resources? Why are you so desperatedly trying to put words to my mouth that i never told?

Quote:
I was asking you to cite 2 examples out of the 140 so countries in the word that aren't African that don't restrict and control resources within their sovereign territory, because I know full well that there aren't any and that you're 100% wrong.


Why should i cite anything that i wasnt pointing at? Please dont use this "creationist style" fallacy aggain. This debate is pointless

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#198 - 2012-12-17 15:34:27 UTC
Sit and argue all you want, waste of time. CCP do as they wish as well as the little goon lemon party they have going on.

Highsec is not actually as profitable as nullsec tech moons/mining.

I think the OP is basically stating that the risk is close to non existent in highsec for a even the most brain dead player, for whatever reason all the production costs in highsec stations are still the same price they have been since they were introduced, really shows how blind CCP are to the amount of ISK flowing in and out of the gate.

What is it? Like 3k ISK installation fee and 100isk per hour so some ******** shite?

Highsec is broken, it does not need nerfed. It needs balanced, huge difference between the two.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#199 - 2012-12-17 15:38:01 UTC
Gibbo5771 wrote:
Sit and argue all you want, waste of time. CCP do as they wish as well as the little goon lemon party they have going on.

Highsec is not actually as profitable as nullsec tech moons/mining.

I think the OP is basically stating that the risk is close to non existent in highsec for a even the most brain dead player, for whatever reason all the production costs in highsec stations are still the same price they have been since they were introduced, really shows how blind CCP are to the amount of ISK flowing in and out of the gate.

What is it? Like 3k ISK installation fee and 100isk per hour so some ******** shite?

Highsec is broken, it does not need nerfed. It needs balanced, huge difference between the two.

Moons mining has not a damn thing to do with the vast majority of individuals in null.

No one person goes to null to do moon mining. It doesn't work that way.

And every single ore calculater says you're wrong. Mining in null is NOT the most profitable place to mine, because you can mine more scordite, faster in high sec, and make more than you can mining high ends in null. And you can do SOLO, where as you must work with people in null.


The mechanics in the game are not made by the player, and they do not make null the best place to do industry.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#200 - 2012-12-17 15:42:11 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Stop it. He's just trying to bait people into pointless arguements that eventually result in these type of threads getting locked.

CCP doesnt' listen to people like him. He's just one of the anit-pvp guys. There's rarely any logic in the kinds of posts you see from guys like this. It's not about a discussion for them, but trying to spew as much vitriol at "evil PvPers" as they can.

Yes, evil PvPers must suffer. Blobbers, the worst of the worst, go to EVE hell - nullsec.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?