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So that is it - Incarna is a bust.
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Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-10-06 18:48:44 UTC
Incarna isn't a bust - no way no how! CCP has invested WAAAAAAYYYYYY too much time and money into to let it die like this. From Hilmar's blog he clearly stated that Incarna in its current state should have been released as an OPTIONAL component to the game - at least until they flesh it out and add actual features to it.

As it currently stands, CCP is going to get back to basics and focus on FiS for an expansion to rep their PR before they go back to develop Incarna.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-10-06 18:50:05 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
So I take it from CCP Hellmar and CCP Zulu's blogs that is it. Incarna is a bust. We'll get the 4 CQ's and that will be that. No WiS. No player ran establishments(that we were told were actually almost ready for launch).

They will be grinding it in the background so you will get what you want eventually. It may take year or few, but it is coming. Enjoy the spaceships and world of forums meanwhile

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-10-06 19:04:55 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
I demand to be able to put this toon on a table in some Gallente bar, take off her top and generate tips from rl basement dwelling virgins!

Damn you whitetree. Damn you.

Forgo the 2nd life comments... Goons actually got banned there and ended up here. If anything, they should take their FiS CSM loving hippies and go back there. Bring on the true Incarna!

Yes as if it's a permanent ban. You are aware that Second Life is free to play, right? You make it sound like we're functionally ********. Well on the other hand there are some that are. Seriously, the OP should just stick to Second Life. He's mad he can't bring his furry fantasies from there.
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#24 - 2011-10-06 19:26:12 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
It's worthless because what purpose could it possibly have for selling avatar items if I the player of the avatar is the only one that can see the clothes?


A fool and his money are easily parted.

C.
Versuvius Marii
Browncoats of Persephone
Ironworks Coalition
#25 - 2011-10-06 19:28:24 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
No Wis and player establishments as we were promised means I no longer have any reason to keep playing. I was looking forward to WiS.

Contract me your items, if you'd be kind enough to move them to Jita or Amarr for me I'd be most appreciative.

Otherwise GTFO, obvious troll.

The Gaming MoD - retro to modern, console to MMO, I blog about it if it's a game and I'm interested in it. Yes, I play games other than Eve and I don't care if you think I'm wrong.
Alaizabel Bronstein
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-10-06 19:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaizabel Bronstein
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
No Wis and player establishments as we were promised means I no longer have any reason to keep playing. I was looking forward to WiS.

you vocal minority, you...

we have known all along that
- Establishments cause graphics problems - the transition from character creation graphics to CQ graphics was quite severe (characters that look fine in the creator look like **** inside the CQ) and even without several avatars the CQ is already a resource hog.
- There were issues with networking code that was just not able to handle the IO caused by several characters (FiS simulation runs at one tick a second, walking around is more "twitch" based) - leading to Carbon IO which hopefully helps to mitigate some of these problems. But Carbon IO is just a platform that allows you to write networking code with less overhead, it is no solution in itself.
- there has not been an actual plan for what you would be able to do in establishments, there were vague visions for the far future but nothing that could realistically be available in its first release (has been emphasized a lot by CSM 5 last year and FF & CSM6 brought along the same notion).

The Establishments I had been expecting for winter (naive, I know) were bland meeting rooms in which you could invite a low number of other players (maybe 5 or 10) to do whatever you like to do (yay, sandbox!).

I don't see how the lack of that "feature" would make anyone quit the game, but if you like to do so please go ahead!

I'd just ask you to re-read the devblogs and dev-posts and ask yourself whether your expectations were actually justified or wild extrapolations of some 3 year-old demo that has very little relevance to present-day Incarna.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#27 - 2011-10-07 16:10:17 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
No Wis and player establishments as we were promised means I no longer have any reason to keep playing. I was looking forward to WiS.


What is it exactly you were so looking forward to?

Was it the walking? Or the buying pretty clothes to show others?

If walking around selling things or buying clothes is your reason to play, try Second Life.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#28 - 2011-10-07 16:31:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
They are going to fix the spaceships portion first and give balance and make people happy, then they will come back to incarna.


Fixing and balancing things are neverending struggles in MMOs. Until every weapon does 1 damage, and every repper repairs 1 HP, there will be no even playing field. What companies do instead is allow each weapon or class a turn at being the most powerful. Hybrids are next i guess, but even though i have Gallente fully sub-cap trained i can't be excited about that.

If CCP should have learned anything from the last few years it's that they'll never please the people constantly complaining about space combat. They worked tirelessly to increase the amount of people who can be involved in fleet battles, neglecting many other aspects of the game, and what they got in return was floods of people insulting them about it not being able to handle 1000 more people. There's a very vocal minority who will just never be happy with space combat, and CCP might find this attempt to please them is yet another fruitless effort.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#29 - 2011-10-07 16:36:36 UTC
Ok, where is the part where they say "we're no longer doing WiS". Please link and/or point to it. Question

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#30 - 2011-10-07 16:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Wacktopia wrote:
Ok, where is the part where they say "we're no longer doing WiS". Please link and/or point to it. Question


Just look for the thread entitled "Establishments in Winter 2011 Expansion, yes or no? "

People are exaggerating by saying WiS will never be completed, but knowing CCPs development time it won't be expanded on anytime remotely soon.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Sekket
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-10-07 16:50:15 UTC
Author of this video here. I was hopeful when I read the latest dev blog. It seems they realize the issue is that while they delivered a great avatar system there was just no content for it. I remember seeing the fan fests where they demoed incarna multiple times and each time it looked promising but apparently those were all technology demo status, ie smoke and mirrors.

All the while they let several things slide that really detract from the EvE experience.

For instance, the dead horse thread has been going for quite some time. A POS could be like your little EvE homestead, your home away from home. However the POS itself is ugly as sin and the experience of setting one up and managing it is annoying as hell.

People could take pride and identify with their chosen ship type, but Gallente has been left languishing for too long.

Some easy things they could have done?

Weekly/monthly/quarterly balance review!

Once they got picture-in-picture and avatars they could have added animated conversations between you and your agent. You could be floating in your pod goo and the agent in their office. That would have increased immersion.

Have a news ticker where dynamic events nearby could be reported and a lot of emergent gameplay could result. Heck, that might be the fix for faction warfare, report X is doing Y when someone goes on a faction warfare mission for the opposing faction.

How about things happening around you while in the station view? It would make it seem less lonely and sterile. How about showing the ships of other docked pilots?

Just some stuff off the top of my head.
  • CQ isn't a refuge, it's a cage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu4iekX3WE
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-10-07 18:40:15 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
When it was released, it was and still is incomplete.

I totally admit PCU went down, but still seriously doubt EvE is dying. It was back up to 44-46k the last couple weekends, and A lot of days the PCU = that of 365 days earlier.

The truth is, its not over till the fat lady sings. If they put more of the content in before the winter expansion and subscriptions remain constant or better, its certainly no bust.


because they said ship spinning is coming back, along with a large number of things people hated about incarna being fixed.



-walking in stations will come... it was never going to come this winter anyways, there is no way they would have gotten it ready they if it took them this long for 1 closet to walk in, imagine a station.
-most players don't care about it, or rather have in game fixes over walking in stations
-a HUGE number of players cannot even run CQ, let alone walking in stations.
Jita Alt666
#33 - 2011-10-07 18:51:33 UTC
The most obvious indicator of the failure of the June Expansion (and especially the NeX Store) is the plex price shifts.
June 1st - June 23rd - price rises as speculators stock up.
June 23rd - July 10th - price drops as speculators realize demand for NeX items is going to be poor.
July10th - Oct 4th - very little price movement.
Oct 4th - Hilmer's blog/Zulu's blog come out. plex prices shift upward by close 100mil.
Jita Alt666
#34 - 2011-10-07 18:53:00 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
When it was released, it was and still is incomplete.

I totally admit PCU went down, but still seriously doubt EvE is dying. It was back up to 44-46k the last couple weekends, and A lot of days the PCU = that of 365 days earlier.

The truth is, its not over till the fat lady sings. If they put more of the content in before the winter expansion and subscriptions remain constant or better, its certainly no bust.


Incarna is a bust.
Eve Online [FIS] still has plenty of happy punters.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#35 - 2011-10-07 19:27:32 UTC
Alaizabel Bronstein wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
No Wis and player establishments as we were promised means I no longer have any reason to keep playing. I was looking forward to WiS.

you vocal minority, you...

we have known all along that
- Establishments cause graphics problems - the transition from character creation graphics to CQ graphics was quite severe (characters that look fine in the creator look like **** inside the CQ) and even without several avatars the CQ is already a resource hog.
- There were issues with networking code that was just not able to handle the IO caused by several characters (FiS simulation runs at one tick a second, walking around is more "twitch" based) - leading to Carbon IO which hopefully helps to mitigate some of these problems. But Carbon IO is just a platform that allows you to write networking code with less overhead, it is no solution in itself.
-


I love it when folks put on the "game developer hat" and spew.

CCP has two titles near launch that clearly enable MMO avatar play. So to somehow say that lack of WiS is due to those two issues is basically nonsense. The graphics problems with avatar quality were due to bugs in the lighting code and maybe some poor choices about level of detail not limitations in the underlying technology (the character creator and the CQ use the same rendering engine) and clearly CCP has to have networking solution for those other titles that would support MMO WiS.

The poor CQ experience is a result of rushing something out too early and with poor quality control and not an indication that CCP couldn't deliver a decent WiS experience with their current technology if they thought it was important enough to apply resources to. They just grossly overestimated how happy we would to be with some really crappy new shiny so they phoned it in.

Issler
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