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Capital Jump Drive Modification

Author
Mag's
Azn Empire
#21 - 2012-12-20 23:27:10 UTC
While I do like Nikk's idea post 3, I have another.

Basically all cynos have a built in 1 minute jump activation delay. Certain ships get a bonus per level to reduce this delay.
This would mean the following.

All none specialized ships, would have to fire the cyno and have the capital ships wait for 1 minute till they could jump.
All specialized ships would have a bonus to reduce this. This bonus could either be 20% per level, meaning no delay at level 5, or 10 seconds per level, leaving 10 seconds delay at level 5.

This would create a more situational and tactical use for cynos. But at the same time, not remove the use of throw away alts in noob ships. Let's face it, not all capital jumps are into battle. But I do believe that if you want to hot drop, then you need to use dedicated ships for that purpose.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Anthar Thebess
#22 - 2012-12-21 08:10:47 UTC
Lets face it now - you can have fleet in multiple regions, and still can drop all possible units in one time.
You can have "ONE" (super)capital and in one day fight it in all corners of the eve... few times.
With the TD you can bring reinforcements from other edge of the universe.
Using jumpbridges you can skip the whole "eve"...


What is the point of the "BIG" universe, when we have so many ways of making it so small.
Currently the biggest space is 0.5+ as you have to fly all the way to the destination.

Eve will be grate game, when not all reaches of space will be reachable in the blink of the jumpdrive (and all the variations)

Still all those ships cannot be simply deleted - so give them this "fly time"

Moving shield carrier to the battle 2LY/min and moving armor mothership 0.5LY/min will change most tactics in the game ... and what is most important - increase the importance of those ships.

Capital armor ships - Defense, and big , planed invasions.
Shield ships - fast "strike" groups.
etc.



Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-12-21 08:51:25 UTC
My idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=184770&find=unread

Remove cynos, kinda.

Leave covert cynos and jump freighters as is. In sovereignty space combat capitals would be unable to use their jump drives.

Titans would retain jump bridges, however I would buff them, a titan would become a mobile jump bridge that can be jumped to and from, only sub capitals may use the titan, however this would be balanced by actually having to move the titan to the spot in question.

Low security and NPC null would be exactly the same as they are now. Combat capitals can jump into sovereignty space from low and back, BUT this would only be possible at an anchored cyno beacon that requires you control an outpost and have certain upgrades to the system making an alliance only capable of having a couple of specific jump points.

Supers and Titans would be balanced by the fact that you actually have to travel to the location of combat, large alliances would probably have to strategically spread out their capital fleets (forcing you to hold only the space you need or can occupy), and attacking alliances would have to leave their space semi vulnerable to attack if they invade someone else's space, making war something you can only do within your local area opening up more space for weaker alliances to move in without fearing being crushed instantly, populating empty null systems with non blue pilots to shoot. Titans would have a very good reason to setup in enemy space and stay their being vulnerable since they would be the beachhead for an invasion, the true flagship that the entire fleet depends on. No matter how powerful supers are if they can't instantly teleport away the chances of them dying are far greater.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Anthar Thebess
#24 - 2012-12-21 10:10:26 UTC
Maybe in the future - my proposal is less "offensive" , i want to add only a fly time connected to the mass of the ship ;)
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-12-21 20:15:39 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Maybe in the future - my proposal is less "offensive" , i want to add only a fly time connected to the mass of the ship ;)

not sure your proposal would change anything except annoy people.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2012-12-22 06:07:46 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Maybe in the future - my proposal is less "offensive" , i want to add only a fly time connected to the mass of the ship ;)



Nerf armour erryday?
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-12-22 09:04:45 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Maybe in the future - my proposal is less "offensive" , i want to add only a fly time connected to the mass of the ship ;)



Nerf armour erryday?



armor capitals are already vastly superior to shield in fleets due to slave implants.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#28 - 2012-12-22 19:32:34 UTC
so with the concept, armor capitals have a large upperhand even though they are now left as a defensive force, while shield capitals are more offensive.

Where the science gets done

Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#29 - 2012-12-23 00:45:04 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
I liked the part about 2 LY/min thing. Still possible to hotdrop but requires fleet to be closer.

I would not touch the covert cyno, keeping the regular cyno mechanics seems right to me.

I don't like the 16/64 AU ranges as it does make it a bit too random. 50 km (as long as it is on grid) seems to me would still "fix" the issue without breaking a fleet apart. Cyno V + another cyno skill V could help reduce this to 5-10 km. Gives value to skilled pilots lightning cynos as opposed to what we have now.


I think "breaking a fleet apart" is good. If you have all ships landing on the grid then they can jump from different points, have a different mass etc.
As long as there is a fleet on grid nothing bad can happen.
But if you give this "wide" spread you will have to make sure that your ships will jump from one point, and have similar mass.

Covert cyno could be differenced, and as for the cyno skills - their main purpose is to reduce "fuel" needs - and that will be the same.

With the addiction 20s delay to "lock" the cyno we will have specialized ships for killing a cyno.
Tengu with proper mods and rigs will be grate for this ;)


I would like to support your idea more, but why exactly is "breaking a fleet apart" good? Why can't the underlying reason be solved by something a bit less far-fetched/arbitrary?

Here is my take on it: capitals should have a way to travel without cynos, as long as they essentially jump to the only object their drives can lock outside a star system; the sun (this ain't originally my idea, but I liked it). This creates a field known to everyone inside a system where capitals can arrive, just like a cyno. There is no POS or station for the capital to hide either, so this advanced way of travelling comes at a higher risk. Just thrown in a 30 secs "re-calibration" where cloaks/warp drives can't be activated and we have a balanced system. Maybe add-in a meteor-like line coming from the star the capital is coming from; make it subtle so it can be easily missed unless paying attention.
If a cyno is used, then at skills 1 the arrival area would be quite huge (50-100km), especially if not using a recon. Recons and other cyno-specific ships, coupled with high skills should re-create the cyno efficiency we have today, which would make it quite safe for the capitals at the expense of the cyno'er. Again, balanced, since you have to choose between playing it safe for your capital or your cyno. If cyno is destroyed while "jumping", following your idea of 2LY/min, then the capital lands at the sun, without the "re-calibration" timer.

I think a system similar to what I described above will make lightning cynos less boring for both parties and involve a bit more micro without necessarily nerfing any role to the ground.

Travelling in empty systems or with a large fleet backing you up? Inexpensive cyno.
Travelling alone and/or without backup? Shorter/safer cyno, at the cost of a more expensive cyno loss if killed.
Anthar Thebess
#30 - 2012-12-28 11:58:12 UTC
The main issue is with the numbers of super capitals, and the speed you can move them from one place to another.
Now one alliance have much, much more super capitals than CCP expected to be ever in the game.

As simple as it can be - you can fight a bloob of suppers only with a bloob of supers - obvious, but not when time needed to call support from the other side of the eve universe ( not even talking about ships present in a neighbor region ) is shorter than time needed to kill one or two supers on one of the sides.

Eve just reached a situation when one faction block - yes HBC , and their allies - have more supers than all other alliances.

I will be fine with that , but not until when those ships can fight in one part of eve, and a hour later they can be in the on the other side of the eve universe.

With current sov and pos mechanic you will be always on time.

So limit the speed, if you have a (super) capital- let the time moving it to the other side of the eve universe will be so long that you will have only those options :
- have another one there ( why not)
- waste 8 hours to move your carrier/dread to the other side of eve
- waste at least a day to move your super capital in a new location.

Current cyno - bloob mechanics are broken - you win if you have more "blue" allies that you can call ... and the distance how fare they are have no matter 2 - 3 titans, or jump bridges ... and they can be on site within few minutes.


Let the eve be big again.





L'Acuto
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-12-28 19:33:29 UTC
I disagree with most of the ideas presented in this thread. The only idea that has potential is a jump cool down timer which I understand as: any ship that jumps or travels through a bridge has a 5 or 10 minute cool down timer before they can jump again or travel through another jump portal - I would exempt blops, covops, and force recon from such a timer.

The only reason to implement this is to mitigate force projection.

Other than that the propositions here in this thread are fairly hair brained and ill conceived. Die, thread, die!
Anthar Thebess
#32 - 2013-01-03 08:39:59 UTC
Check todays killboard PL killing FA supers/capitals - to be honest this kind , and so fast force projection should never happen at this speed.
Supers are important but doing a super capital roams - this is a nonsense.

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-01-03 09:33:49 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Check todays killboard PL killing FA supers/capitals - to be honest this kind , and so fast force projection should never happen at this speed.
Supers are important but doing a super capital roams - this is a nonsense.


Supers don't roam, one guy roams looks for targets while they all wait in jump range for something to happen. Thats what we pay 15 bucks a month for guys.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Anthar Thebess
#34 - 2013-01-03 12:42:34 UTC
Suppers are not roaming?
For me there are 2 types of roam:
1st : take a group of drunk mates and fly a random sectors, searching for random target or a booting sip
2nd : send cyno ships in every direction to find a random fleet and hot drop it.

In both types the main thing making it a roam is this "random target", target that was not meant to be attacked - it just happen to be in range.

And in case of Super(capitals) - they cannot use a gate so the only option is a hotdrop.
In this situation - FA super(capitals) just happened ... they where in rage of PL Fleet - so for me this was a roam.

And ... yes if you have a super(capital) fleet hotdropping targets is fun - but this is killing this game now ; and it will kill
eventually all fun of eve.

One of the biggest nonsenses in this game is that this kind of force projection is possible especially at this speed.
Now one super capital fleet can block whole eve - and the process have already begun.

What is the perspective for a eve (new/old) player for the upcoming times in eve - join a "blue null!" or sit in a High Sec!

What will my suggestion change ("fly to dest" for a super'capitals') nothing much in case of the "killing power of those ships" - those ships will be still in game, they will be still as deadly as now, but be honest - the super "hotdrops" will be limited.
You cannot relocate them all in the "big op" to the new location as - one spy - can inform your enemies that your space is without a supercapital cover- and before you will bring them back - to much damage can be done , or even you can lost a sov.

The big blue null nonsense will be over.

If you want to know why this is so big issue please read this:
http://evenews24.com/2012/12/30/the-honey-botter-coalition-an-expose-on-botting-within-eve-onlines-biggest-coalition/

This is your future in eve.


Anthar Thebess
#35 - 2013-01-11 12:02:46 UTC
Any other ideas how to brake instant super(cap) bloobing?
Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions
#36 - 2013-01-11 13:19:04 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:

THe main idea is to change the "instant jump" to fly to destination.
Speed will be connected to the mass of the ship - the fastest possible will be for shield capitals - 2LY/min
Next thing the cyno.
It will be only used as a vector not a destination point. After reaching destination capital ships will be randomly dropped 16AU from the cyno location.

so basically you want to have the jump drive modified to a clay-pidgeon-shooter, having the weakest capitals spawn at random points first, so you can simply hit them by probe when they are alone and cant repair eachother..

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Anthar Thebess
#37 - 2013-01-11 14:59:47 UTC
Nope - if not under the combat conditions you simply jump, activate cloak - and you are safer than ever.
If you move in to the battle - you got to have support.

Still every thing is open to discussion.
j0vius
tango alfa tango
#38 - 2013-01-21 08:58:20 UTC
Good idea , up!
Launch Control
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-01-21 09:35:11 UTC
Remove cyno's - create laser designator module for a high or low slot - add the jump drive 2-3ly/min or spooling option. problem fixed.
Mascha Tzash
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-01-21 09:40:41 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Any other ideas how to brake instant super(cap) bloobing?


Not really. The other day I had a thought about giving regional gates the possibillity to handle all ships (up to titans) and therefore remove the option to jump to a cyno outside of your current region.

This would create choke points and would favor defenders resulting in an even more solid sov for the holders. On the other hand, you could not dodge bastions with an invading force.

I'm not a 0.0 dweller. So i dropped this. I just don't know enough about capital warfare and the inclinations involved.
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