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Hi-sec as we know it has to come to an end ASAP, and here´s why.
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Nivyalon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-12-14 04:29:11 UTC
The reason that so much space is "dead" is that the average server population is 37,000 and there are ~5200 accessible k systems, so with a uniform population distribution you would have ~7 players per system. Because it would be absurdly boring if players were spread so thin, players naturally congregate to a handful of focal points. Also if you take into consideration that systems in EVE are just that, entire systems, you could potentially play EVE for years and never encounter another player. If you were really committed to the goal of "reviving" the majority of the systems in EVE then you would be petitioning for a few thousand systems to be removed. As you are not putting forth that suggestion you are either ignorant to the fact that implementing your plan would cause a large fraction of the player base to leave resulting in space being even more "dead", or you don't care about what is good for the game at all and are just trying to further your own aims.

Also having a DMZ in space is about realistic as ships having a max speed in spaces.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#82 - 2012-12-14 05:51:15 UTC
Gods and spirits did we really need yet another nerf high sec thread? Really?

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#83 - 2012-12-14 05:53:01 UTC
Don't fret, in six months someone else will come up with the unique and amazing idea to have lowsec moats between the hisec empires, and we get to go through all these arguments over again.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Domi Naytrix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-12-14 05:53:47 UTC
The whole sec system needs a rework imo. Why does Eve have sec status from +1 to -1, when really the only ratings people care about are .4 and 0? But heck, Im new, what do I know.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-12-14 05:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Nivyalon wrote:
The reason that so much space is "dead" is that the average server population is 37,000 and there are ~5200 accessible k systems, so with a uniform population distribution you would have ~7 players per system. Because it would be absurdly boring if players were spread so thin, players naturally congregate to a handful of focal points. Also if you take into consideration that systems in EVE are just that, entire systems, you could potentially play EVE for years and never encounter another player. If you were really committed to the goal of "reviving" the majority of the systems in EVE then you would be petitioning for a few thousand systems to be removed. As you are not putting forth that suggestion you are either ignorant to the fact that implementing your plan would cause a large fraction of the player base to leave resulting in space being even more "dead", or you don't care about what is good for the game at all and are just trying to further your own aims.

Also having a DMZ in space is about realistic as ships having a max speed in spaces.


Actually, theory of special relativity - the faster something moves, the more massive it becomes. The more massive something is, the more inertia it produces. Once you get something moving in space, it's tricky to slow it down because of inertia, but the more speed you pick up, the more massive you become, and the more inertia you have to overcome to pick up speed, hence why travelling faster than light is, according to the laws of physics, virtually impossible - as you approach higher and higher speeds, you start to approach higher and higher masses, and the actual calculation for say, a space shuttle, reaching the speed of light, has it's mass approaching infinity.

Even the space shuttle has a top speed. Albeit, it's about 28,000 km/h (which is ~24 times the speed of sound), it can't go any faster than that.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
TharOkha
0asis Group
#86 - 2012-12-14 06:05:09 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Phil Da Agony wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
OP wants the sandbox all to himself so everyone has to play his way. What a bully! Blink


Quote:
Nope im not, and I previously said that its a cool thing that everyone has his own place to do whatever they want, thats good.
But not the way things are distributed right now, its bad for the game and thats a fact not an opinion, what percentage of the space is dead, unused or completely abandoned at the moment? A lot, in hi, low, and null sec.


Just re-sayin.


Isnt that problem caused by low/null dwellers themselves and not by game mechanics?

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#87 - 2012-12-14 06:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Anabella Rella wrote:
Gods and spirits did we really need yet another nerf high sec thread? Really?



Yeah. Nerfs my listening to Eno's Ambient stuff (and after Mastodon no less) Big smile


Ambient 4: On Land



edit: Been really a weird experience on these Forums reading for YEARS the same nonsense yammered about uselessly over and over and over.....like a sweater someone keeps knitting, and knitting, and knitting, and knitting, and knitting , and knitting, WHACK! {*}

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
pussnheels
Viziam
#88 - 2012-12-14 07:20:01 UTC
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Ok guise, lets seriously talk about it. What Hi-sec has brought to us?

Breeds and breeds of people who sits down, take their brains off and wait for the drones till they hear the DING from the microwave so they could pick up another 4 and now, theyre unable to pull the drones back into the bay twice per mission. People who sells the ships they build under production cost because the ore they mine "it´s free". People who has been in the game for years and doesnt know what the d-scan is, or how it works.

This aberration is against the hearth and soul of this game, promoting single-player-esque behaviour in a harmful and dangerous way. We, people, have failed has a community.

Hi-sec should stop being a big fat island, and become an archipelage, as easy as that. A handful of small islands interconnected by low-sec and null-sec systems.

Think about it for a second and you´ll realize it, its a full-of-win idea.

Decentralizated market, hauling as a dignified profession, manufacturing accesible and profitable for the newbros, no more blue powerblock seas, everyone gettin involved into everything, in a truly, new and exciting single shard universe, harsh and dangerous as it was meant to be.

I know everyone needs his place, and hi-sec-only fellas would still be able to do their thing if they want to, even they will get benefits from this, as the faction and corp standings will become even more important.

only thing i read in your posr is a demand for more free easytargets without concord intervention

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#89 - 2012-12-14 07:38:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Quote:
Hi-sec as we know it has to come to an end ASAP


And I bet from the perspective of most hi-sec players, the opposite is true, null sec is the one that needs fixing. No, wait, null sec people say that too, my bad :D

Quote:
Hi-sec should stop being a big fat island, and become an archipelage, as easy as that. A handful of small islands interconnected by low-sec and null-sec systems.

Think about it for a second and you´ll realize it, its a full-of-win idea.


Here's what would happen: people that currently occupy hi-sec would keep to their little island, any communication between them would be limited to jump freighters.

When will you people learn that you can't FORCE a player to go against what he thinks is right for him? You need to encourage him, convince him that acting differently is in his best interests. You don't force a player into low/null/WH, you encourage him to get there. Imagine a small corp of, say, 50 players, with 6 hour coverage per day. What good will such a corp do in null, controlled by powers ranging hundreds or even thousands of players? Be slaves in glorified mining operations, paying their rent for just the right to be there? They can do that in hi-sec too, with no self-centered arrogant overlords and far less strings attached.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
Even the space shuttle has a top speed. Albeit, it's about 28,000 km/h (which is ~24 times the speed of sound), it can't go any faster than that.


It can, just not with currently used technology, because rocket fuel doesn't have enough force to push it faster. Projected achievable speeds with today's technology are around 8% c, using nuclear pulse drive (Project Orion). Of course, microdust would become a serious issue at those speeds.

Then again, that would hardly be a space shuttle and it's also not the point of your post, I just like geeking out :p
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#90 - 2012-12-14 07:44:49 UTC
Another thread about this ShockedLolRoll

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Kehro Urgus
Dark Nebula Academy
O X I D E
#91 - 2012-12-14 07:46:52 UTC
EVE should be all hi sec. :troll face:

Yeeee! 
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#92 - 2012-12-14 08:01:48 UTC
...and CCP will wave good bye to yet another 20k players or so ...sure, that'll happen. Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#93 - 2012-12-14 08:12:08 UTC
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Sarmea Moon wrote:
Got 4 baking right now. You know if you leave Jita there are slots available with only a short wait, right?

Obviously not.



Define short wait please, are 10 days a short wait? or even 5? No, thats not a short wait.

Anyway I didnt opened this thread to argue with some "industrial minded" individual about whether is profitable or what is not


with all due respect you opened this thread altogether, trying to push your ideals as written truth and undeniable fact. You set yourself up the instant you began to type that first post for retaliation. And now you cannot handle it?

Im guessing you got blown up by someone, got upset, and think everyone else should blow up to atone for whatever you did wrong.

Regarding your first post. There already are highsec pockets they rarely have incursions in them - Not surprisingly they are rarely touched by the highsec fleets. If all of highsec was fragmented then the majority of high seccers would either, stay put and try to make do where they were the instant of fragmentation, or quit. Sure some might take on the low/null dream but it wouldnt be the massive target rich wet dream of low/null pvpers
Enilonee
#94 - 2012-12-14 09:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Enilonee
This will never happen with the way lowsec works today. I really like the idea, but lowsec would have to change to enable this.

The way we play EvE is the following:

1) Look for a System that suits your need.
- lots of L4 agents within 1 jump for mission runners
- lots of asteroid/ice belts for miners and industrialists
- lots of industry slots, or a moon with no POS and not too far from the next hub for industrialists
- close to lowsec for casual pvpers

2) Settle down and never need to visit more than a couple of neigboring systems, the nearby tradehub and Jita

Alternatively look for a corp that is located somewhere according to a mixture of these requirements and settle in their home system.

People only relocate when being harassed constantly or changing corps. A few do it to see something new.

Making highsec an archipelago just cannot change this. Except going to Jita everything will still be same old.
If you distribute ressources in a "clever" manner people will just congregate again in a much more confined space. Islands that are not considered good in comparison will be nearly deserted.

As long as people fear being gatecamped when lowsec traveling NOTHING will change. As long as they need to avoid lowsec in order to avoid getting their hauler/mission ship exploded in lowsec they will just do so. And only ever enter lowsec to pvp.

And seeing how PVP is centered at exactly these choke-points that will not change either. You only can PVP when there are players, right? And station-games are no fun. So the only place left to consistently find PVP outside FW are the gates. That or finding a mission runner or miner to kill.


As for me - the only solution I see to get non-highsec space more densely populated is to cut down on the number of systems. One can't complain that people are too spread out and at the same time demand more space for people to be spread over.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#95 - 2012-12-14 09:29:25 UTC
Enilonee wrote:
As for me - the only solution I see to get non-highsec space more densely populated is to cut down on the number of systems. One can't complain that people are too spread out and at the same time demand more space for people to be spread over.


But there aren't enough people in the game to make that happen, not anymore... nothing can be done about that at this point aside from reducing the amount of highsec systems as a whole, wich CCP will not do.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Harland White
Adventurer's Guild
#96 - 2012-12-14 10:53:24 UTC
Phil Da Agony wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
So the solution to null being one big NAP-fest is to balkanize hi-sec?



The solution to pretty much everything is to balkanize hi-sec.

Have you ever introduced a friend to EVE? have your friend ever told you "I want to transport **** for a living", "I wanna get into industry"?

What will you tell him? Would you encourage him? would you tell him "ok, its fine, youll do good", we all know that aint true.


Sorry, but you aren't going to force your gameplay style on me. I have a real job, in real life, that I'm at pretty darn often. I come home to play some EVE occasionally, and I don't come home and log in just to work at a 2nd job after my first one (more stress). I venture into lowsec occasionally when I actually feel like some PvP and feel like losing a ship maybe, but otherwise, I don't play this game for it to begin dictating my IRL schedule and just become another source of stress.

If your style of gameplay (low and nullsec) is forced on me by CCP, I will simply unsub, as will I'm sure many, many other people. This will result in layoffs at CCP, which will result in less work being done on EVE, DUST, etc, and will result in less of your "I have a wonderful game-destroying idea" threads actually coming true. So in actuality, you are harming yourself and the rest of your gamestyle. Your own idea will **** up your game.

I think this whole thing must be a troll anyway though, surely you're not really this stupid.

By their fruit you will recognize them.
Harland White
Adventurer's Guild
#97 - 2012-12-14 10:58:38 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Honestly, this is just starting to come across as a "make more low sec so I can kill more noobs" thread.


This, 100%.

By their fruit you will recognize them.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#98 - 2012-12-14 11:04:08 UTC
Harland White wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Honestly, this is just starting to come across as a "make more low sec so I can kill more noobs" thread.


This, 100%.


It not that.

Its just very badly thought out.
Spurty
#99 - 2012-12-14 13:54:09 UTC
Posting in a "I live in null under the rainbow nap umbrella, get me the hell out of this boredom CCP" stealth thread ... Perhaps?

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#100 - 2012-12-14 14:17:06 UTC
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Ok guise, lets seriously talk about it. What Hi-sec has brought to us?

Breeds and breeds of people who sits down, take their brains off and wait for the drones till they hear the DING from the microwave so they could pick up another 4 and now, theyre unable to pull the drones back into the bay twice per mission. People who sells the ships they build under production cost because the ore they mine "it´s free". People who has been in the game for years and doesnt know what the d-scan is, or how it works.

This aberration is against the hearth and soul of this game, promoting single-player-esque behaviour in a harmful and dangerous way. We, people, have failed has a community.

Hi-sec should stop being a big fat island, and become an archipelage, as easy as that. A handful of small islands interconnected by low-sec and null-sec systems.

Think about it for a second and you´ll realize it, its a full-of-win idea.

Decentralizated market, hauling as a dignified profession, manufacturing accesible and profitable for the newbros, no more blue powerblock seas, everyone gettin involved into everything, in a truly, new and exciting single shard universe, harsh and dangerous as it was meant to be.

I know everyone needs his place, and hi-sec-only fellas would still be able to do their thing if they want to, even they will get benefits from this, as the faction and corp standings will become even more important.


Don't know about the details, but +1 to the general idea.

In my friendly (lol) discussions with high sec only players, I've noticed a few things.

The big one is that they don't know nearly as much about the actual flying space ships part of the game as everyone else (meaning low sec, null sec and wormhole people). Of all, probably the wormhole people have the deepest grasp of EVE's inner workings, with low and null tied for 2nd and high sec dead last.

I know about then prohibition on talking real life stuff on here, but I'll just say that High Sec is the Welfare State of EVE, and must of us know what happens to people's brains when they get coddled by the state too much. they end up floating through life because someone else is handling some key aspect of it that they now don't have to worry about.

The (non-wardecced) High sec player can go afk at a moment's notice to retrieve his hot pockets and grape drank without a single care in the world. No one else in any part of EVE can do that without a cloak, pos or station ie things other people had to make. The high sec player only has to concern himself with not doing the few things that can get him concorded, made much easier now by "safeties".

As a pretty libertarian "live and let live" guy I'm all for a player doing what he wants to do, and if living in high sec playing a fraction of EVE is what they want to do, as long as their actions are within the eula rules and they pay their sub or plex, it's all good....so long as they understand that they are still in a non-consensual pvp sandbox MMO and there are consequences for that choice.

It's when they cry foul and ask for more protection from the consequences of that choice that they start to fail. To be fair, i think the majority of High Sec dwellers accpet the consequences of their play choices (screw the term "play style") very well, it's a minority of weak minded crybabies that can't handle ganking and bumping and the like.





While they will scream "you just want me to play your way", I think for their own good, and for the good of the game it would be great if they actually had to deal with some of the realities low, null and WH players HAVE to deal with, even if it's just how to get from point A to point B safely. Those that can't Handel even that much needing to pay attention to the video game they are playing will leave of course, but then they weren't real EVE players to begin with.