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Active Armor tanking sucks
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Jackson Steely
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-12-12 01:43:18 UTC
Basically
Revman Zim
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2012-12-12 01:45:06 UTC
I will agree with you that it is not the optimal way to fit a ship for PvP, however, for PvE it is the best way to go in an Amarr ship.

Armor tanking is necessary for some extended high level missions.

IMHO
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-12-12 01:45:35 UTC
No ****, got some content?

CCP has no sense of humour.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-12-12 01:49:57 UTC
It really depends on the ship.
Active armour tanking is very good on the right ship.

Hell, i'd say it's more effective than active shield tanking (not using an ASB) since ASBs made that totally obsolete.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-12-12 01:54:18 UTC
ibtl for rant

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#6 - 2012-12-12 01:54:36 UTC
Active armor tanking fleets need to be done remote to escape the game breaking cycle times. That requires high slots and a lot of Cap so yes, Active armor tanking is off the doctrine for most people. The additional logistics in fleet take from would be dps and it doesn't work out as an end benefit.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-12-12 01:56:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Jack Miton wrote:
It really depends on the ship.
Active armour tanking is very good on the right ship.

Hell, i'd say it's more effective than active shield tanking (not using an ASB) since ASBs made that totally obsolete.

How so? Even before the ASB active shield boosting was more effective than armor tanking in my opinion. The ASB only seemed to exasperate the issue further. The only time Armor tanking appears to be beneficial to me would be when the hull bonuses enhance it and mids are in short supply.
Transmaritanus
Exergy.
#8 - 2012-12-12 02:08:39 UTC
You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378

Check that EHP.

And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy.

Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub.
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#9 - 2012-12-12 02:09:53 UTC
Transmaritanus wrote:
You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378

Check that EHP.

And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy.

Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub.


Double Rep Incursus would like to talk to you as well.

Now with 100% less Troll.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#10 - 2012-12-12 02:13:40 UTC
Transmaritanus wrote:
You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378

Check that EHP.

And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy.

Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub.


T1 frigate kills active armor T2 frigate.
What side of this debate are you on again?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-12 02:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Ocih wrote:
Transmaritanus wrote:
You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378

Check that EHP.

And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy.

Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub.


T1 frigate kills active armor T2 frigate.
What side of this debate are you on again?


er... they're both T1 frigates. The fact that an Incursus managed to take over 35000 damage before it died is what he's talking about. And an active-tanked Incursus with a cap booster will almost always outperform (depending on the pilot) a passive tanked Incursus. It definitely depends on the ship.

What makes it even more epic is that it was only a 10-mil loss. At 10 mil, you can get 35,000 ehp by active-tanking an Incursus.

Gallente FTW!!

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#12 - 2012-12-12 02:21:49 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Transmaritanus wrote:
You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378

Check that EHP.

And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy.

Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub.


T1 frigate kills active armor T2 frigate.
What side of this debate are you on again?


er... they're both T1 frigates. The fact that an Incursus managed to take of 35000 damage before it died is what he's talking about.


Corrected. Not sure why I saw Ishkur.
It's still difficult to convince me the ship you just blew up was well fit.
Jackson Steely
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-12-12 02:38:42 UTC
Transmaritanus wrote:
Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm?



So in order to effectively active armor tank I need three repairers on a ship with a repair bonus?

Thank you for confirming my OP.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#14 - 2012-12-12 02:46:28 UTC
Jackson Steely wrote:
Transmaritanus wrote:
Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm?



So in order to effectively active armor tank I need three repairers on a ship with a repair bonus?

Thank you for confirming my OP.


To make this a little closer to relevant in EVE Online, you could change the title as well.

Active Armor Ganking Sucks.

Gank beats tank. EVE is EVE. It will never change.
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-12-12 02:47:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Shinzhi Xadi
How about a hypothetical tanking comparison here, just to illustrate how fail active armor tanking is:
This is from a omni tanked mission perspective. Yes I know that many missions only do 2 types of damage, but thats not the point, the point is to see how much tank can be done as omni with these ships.

Take the 4 marauders, designed for active tanks, designed for missions.

Allow them to have 2 damage mods in the lows, rest is tank. Golem gets 1 TP in mid.
Tanking modules can be anything up to A-type. No X-type, and no officer, and no ASB.
Must be cap stable or stably running on cap boosters.
Use any implants you want.
Do not overheat any modules

Golem: HG crystal implants, and A-type tank, with 2 BCS, and 1 target painter, EFT shows cap stable 2249 dps OMNI tank. Rigs are not used for tank.

Vargur: HG crystal implants, similar tank to the golem, 2 gyro's, cap stable 2211 dps OMNI tank. Rigs not used for tank.

Paladin: A-type tank, 2 heat sink, cap stable 868 dps OMNI tank, Rigs used for cap.

Kronos: sorry, don't fly them, so skipping, but I suspect its similar to the Paladin.

Just for fun, how about a nightmare fit for extreme heavy tanking in missions, must be cap stable, 2 damage mods like above?

Nightmare: HG crystal implants, A-type tank, 2 heat sink, cap stable 1772 dps OMNI tank, Rigs used for cap.

What does this show? with high end modules, active shield tanking is very strong for PVE. Armor tank sucks no matter how much you spend. All these fits can be easily checked in EFT. I'm not saying shield tanking is overpowered, I think its working as intended. Armor tanking needs to be fixed badly.

I invite anybody to figure out a paladin or kronos tank that can approach the tanks of the golem, vargur, or even the nightmare using up to a-type modules while keeping at least 2 damage mods in low.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-12-12 02:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Jackson Steely wrote:
Transmaritanus wrote:
Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm?



So in order to effectively active armor tank I need three repairers on a ship with a repair bonus?

Thank you for confirming my OP.

Double rep is also effective and your a scrub if you don't know how powerful a triple rep myrm is in average pvp.

Also your whole argument utterly destroyed by this link HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (did i mention its on a ship with no hull bonuses to armor?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-12-12 03:01:44 UTC
Jackson Steely wrote:
Basically


Your Joking .... you must be

The Dominix has an Awesome active tank
The Typhoon is built like a brick, and it shield-reps squishy ravens like a Boss at the same time.


EFT/Pfya ... play with fits
see what is possible with good skills
because yes as a noob you will suck, royally.
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#18 - 2012-12-12 03:03:27 UTC
Dual Rep Hyperion FTW.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#19 - 2012-12-12 04:23:58 UTC
I watched 10secondrule's Megathron sit and tank alot of abuse for quite awhile last night in Rens...before he misclicked and got WTFPWNOMGBBQD right on the undock. Was quite hilarious, and he did quite well until he died.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-12-12 05:04:00 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The only time Armor tanking appears to be beneficial to me would be when the hull bonuses enhance it and mids are in short supply.


that's about the same as saying that lasers are only good on ships with a laser bonus... (No sh*t sherlock)

as for armour tanking, it's actually not true.
vindicators, domis even buffer fit proteus and legion without the rep bonus sub work very well with armour reppers.
and im talking just PVP here since man many unbonused hulls get armour tanked for PVE.

in any case, the exact same thing can be said of active shield tanking where the only ship without a boost or resist bonus that i can think of that works (or worked, more realistically) well with a non ASB active shield tank is the nightmare.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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