Out of Pod Experience

Due to an unexpected and very loud >POP< in my machine the other week I am having to replace some items. The PSU has been replaced for a half kilowatt heater and I am looking at a choice of graphics cards.

The only game that I play at the moment is EVE. Though there are some old DVD games which I may pick up in future but they're not important.

It has to drive three monitors and I am seriously thinking of the GeForce GTX 670 2GB.

I need to get my order in around Downtime tomorrow if I am going to have it before the weekend (Real Life stuff getting in the way and all that). So, what are the pros and cons of such a card to play Eve across three monitors? Or, is this such a poor choice and what, perhaps, could be better?

- Myfanwy

Thanks for that pointer as the 7770 is about 40% of the cost of the 670. My budget stretches to a 670 with a bit of a pinch. Or, rather it will add up to an expensive present for the missus for Christmas.

Thanks for this and I have pored over everthing that I can get my hands on. I have taken on board what you say and since the 670 i can use in an SLI format, I think that I will try it with one card and then, if need me, get a second.

I don't think that Eve takes as much oomph as some of these other games and so I may just get away with it. And besides, it may be a few momths before I get the three new screens anyway...

But, thanks for the feedback. I am half condiering a 680 and perhaps I may -- if I can convince myself that is the way to go. It is about another £80 of our Welsh Pounds so whether I can justify this or not, I will have to think.

It will be the 670 or the 680. Let's see how I feel tomorrow.

Thanks again. Yours and Grimpak's time and effort is most appreciated.

- Myfanwy

Okay, that's a good reply. Can one update the RAM on the cards?

The last time I did this was on an old Matrox back somewhen in the last century and I could get a piggy-back card which doubled the RAM to something like 128MB or something.

It seems that Eve doesn't cater for SLI (that is if I am reading the Nvidia pages right) so going for SLI just for Eve is going to be a waste of time and money (but do corrent me if I am wrong).

So, if I can get more RAM on the card, you're saying that this ought to be an improvement. Right, something else to look into...

Thanks for your reply. It may have sent me down a whole new avenue.

- Myfanwy

Oh wow, thanks. I must have looked on the wrong site.

So, I need to discuss this with the PC bod. Do I go for one card with 4GB or start with one card aith 2GB and then SLI it if it can't handle three monitors?

I need to check the motherboard; that would be the first port of call. But if the 4GB version of the card isn't much more than the 2GB version then that would be the way to go. And then if I can SLI I shall.

Thanks ever so much for this. I think that because of Real Life I will have to make a decision on the road (more hosptal runs and such, sigh.)

Thanks again for your help and for taking the time to answer.

- Myfanwy

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions.

I can't go for the SLI option because the motherboard doesn't cater for it. But that's not a problem as this machine will be moved to be a back-up or database server next year sometime. The next machine will have SLI capability but whether I use it is something to be considered later on.

The idea is that next machine will use this new card and if I need SLI then I will get a second card and, of course, I will get a crufty old card for the then older machine.

I've gone for the GeForce 670 and have decided to push to boat out and have gone for the 4GB version. At the end of the day I don't think that I could have improved on it and having read the reviews of different flavours of the 670 I decided that the Asus offering was perhaps the least worst.

Now. For the time being I will just use the two mismatched monitors and early next year I will get three new monitors. Monitor choice looks like being simple since the specs are much the same but it all boils down to what has the smallest bezel.

Thanks again to everyone for the assistance. At least I can fly in New Eden shortly again and not on the laptop.

Hwyl
Myfanwy

The following assumes all you intend to play is EVE, and you prefer NVIDIA because of that.
If you have an ATI//AMD preference, choices are fairly similar overall anyway.

...

A single 1GB GTX 650 (non-Ti) would be sufficient for near-monitor-refresh FPS for three simultaneous EVE instances in high-ish graphic detail, each on a separate fullHD monitor.
You might get additional occasional slowdowns if you have a lot of scenes heavy on textures on several instances due to the "small" 1GB video memory size, but generally it should be ok if you DO NOT want to max out stuff.
It's the cheapest (~100 USD) and least power-hungry (64 W TDP) option out there right now, and should be considered the baseline IMO.

EDIT - note :
Performance-wise, a Radeon HD 7770 is somewhere in between a 650 and a 650 Ti, but closer to the "regular" 650.
Its TDP is about 80W, it only comes in 1GB versions AFAIK, and you can get the cheapest ones for a bit over 100 USD.
If you don't mind going AMD, it's the purchase I'd probably recommend for most people
-- end edit

A single 2GB GTX 650 Ti would just about give you above-monitor-refresh FPS in nearly maxed graphic detail for three fullHD EVE instances on separate monitors.
There should be very little (if any) issues due to video memory size, 2GB should suffice for 3 fullHD monitors even if you're using maxed out texture options in EVE. Any issues would happen if you're in a fleet-fight-like situation with countless different textures and you insist on using high AA settings while NOT using variable LOD. And even then, the performance degradation due to the CPU bottlenecking will most likely be worse than that due to the video RAM size either way, so getting a 3GB version would not do much overall.
Prices for that type of card start at around 160 USD, and they have a 110 W TDP.
I would say this is a decent price/performance compromise, and would be my recommended buy for an EVE player on a reasonable budget.

EDIT - note :
Performance-wise, a Radeon HD 7850 is somewhere in between a 650 Ti and a 660, but a lot closer to the 660.
Its TDP is about 130W, and it comes in 1GB and 2GB versions. The 2GB versions start at a bit under 190 USD.
If you don't mind going AMD and like overprovisioning, this one would probably be best for you instead.
-- end edit

A single 3GB GTX 660 (non-Ti) would already be complete overkill (from all possible viewpoints, especially RAM size) for three EVE instances on regular FullHD monitors, unless you happen to have 120Hz monitors, but even then it would be quite sufficient FPS-wise.
Those things cost from 260 USD upwards and have a 140 W TDP.

That's pretty much the upper limit of what's WORTH spending for a video card for EVE nowadays.
You really DO NOT need anything more expensive if the most graphics-intensive game you play is EVE, you're just spending money on something you're unlikely to ever utilize at full power.
You most certainly DO NOT need a 4GB GTX 670, that's completely superfluous for the setup you want to play EVE in the near future on, not to speak of its completely ludicrous 450-ish USD price.
Heck, it's probably way overkill for many other games too.
If you haven't already ordered, don't.
If you ordered it, go see if it already shipped or you can still cancel it.
Or maybe see if they can fully refund it if you don't unpack it when it arrives.
Seriously, it's a waste of cash for EVE right now, and an overall BAD long-term investment either way, since in two years, cards with a similar performance and memory size will cost less than half of that.

...

P.S.
Fleet fight and other such FPS-poor situations happen mainly because of CPU bottlenecking, not because of the video card.
EVE does not do "spaceship submarine physics" on the video card, it does it exclusively on the CPU. The only place where the CUDA functions are being utilized is in the realistic simulation of avatar hair and clothing.
If you suffer from pathetic fleet fight FPS (but station-spinning works fine, as it should) then it's highly unlikely to see ANY noteworthy FPS improvement by just getting a much more powerful video card. You're just wasting cash needlessly.
And a DX11 graphics-intensive EVE version is at least one year, probably more than two years away. It's pointless to buy a card that can play that EVE now, since you could get a cheaper and better new card then, when it would actually be needed instead.

...

P.P.S.
2-card SLI mode is just not worth all the hassle overall, IMO.
I would advise to try to avoid as much as possible, especially if you decide to go ATI//AMD, since Crossfire mode suffers from microstutters significantly more than NVIDIA's SLI mode (both do suffer, it's just somewhat less bad for NVIDIA).
From configuration issues, to performance issues (most obviously being the microstutters, but also imperfect scaling and other such things), to power, heat and noise issues deriving from multiple video cards in close proximity, not to speak of mobo-to-cards and card-to-other-manufacturer-card issues, SLI mode is really too bothersome to intentionally go for, at least as far as I am concerned.
There are legitimate and valid uses for SLI mode, but if you do need something like that (NOT for EVE anyway, at least not for EVE in its current public incarnation anyway), I would strongly recommend 3+ card SLI or Crossfire mode, which almost completely eliminates microstutters. But then, the power/heat/noise issues get worse, and there's not many CPU/mobo combos that can properly handle three or more video cards (if they all step down to x1 PCI-E speed that totally sucks, you want at least x4 on each, and x8 would be ideal ; very few older CPU/mobos can support 3+ x8 = 24+ PCI-E lanes, most current ones can handle at most 16, for 2-way x8 ones).

if I'm not mistaken, there are 2GB versions of the 7770. think Asus does them, and the price bump vs 1gb versions isn't that big.

Quite possible, but offer seems to be pretty limited in range. I haven't seen any on sites in my country nor on newegg. Yet.


I have an aging 1GB "v1" GTX 460 since more than 2 years ago. That exact model first came out in July 2010, I got it two months later.
It can drive two fullHD EVE instances in maxed out graphic detail AND maximum antialiasing setting ALSO WITH all driver options set on highest image quality just fine - not always capping at the 60 FPS monitor refresh rate, but pretty damn close, with those settings.
Fiddling with driver options to push for max performance instead of max quality, options that barely even register as far as image quality goes, and turning off antialiasing (which is more noticeable, but really not that much of a big deal either) more than doubles FPS (of course, after testing, I step back to interval one and FPS gets capped at the monitor refresh rate either way).
That's an actual and practical test I've made, not second-hand knowledge.
Too bad it can only drive two monitors, because otherwise three EVE instances on three monitors would be a cakewalk, heck, even four instances would be no big problem. It's not like adding a monitor eats up THAT much out of the video RAM anyway (triple-buffered 32bit fullHD is only about 25MB ; and station-spinning single windowed EVE instance only uses about 110 MB of video RAM over the idle OS video RAM usage).

A 1 GB "v1" GTX 460 is also slightly slower than a 1GB GTX 650 Ti.
So, yeah, to your truncated objections I just quoted, I sort of would, and I'm fairly sure.
Rough ballpark, plus minus 10% FPS or thereabouts anyway.


No, not an "infected" thing... just not a very good price/performance ratio "thing".
And more than you can have an use for right now.
Also, performance aside, I don't know about your financial situation, but 430 USD for a video card, even 370 USD, that sounds way too steep for my tastes.


Top line cards seldom drop in price that fast, maybe if you are ok with either refurbished or second-hand you can get it that cheap in two years. That is, if you can even find one like that at all. You'd have a lot more lick with mid-range cards.
Moreover, even HALF of the current price already is a lot of cash for a graphics card to be used solo, let alone as a second card in a SLI setup.



The first from the 700-line might already start to come out in March or April 2013 - that is 3-4 months from now.
It will see at least a 15% performance hike over the similar 600-line models, and most likely a reduction in power use too.
Who cares if it's a refinement of old tech or brand new tech ? The end result is all that really matters.

Maxwell 800-series cards will most likely start to come out in early 2014, or maybe even late 2013, and will most likely see at least a 15% additional performance boost (but more likely over 25%) over the 700-series (so that's nearly 45% over the 600-series at best, and at least 33% better), with more video RAM at price points of current-gen lower-RAM-count cards. That's a year and a half from now at most, probably even earlier.

The "small" 60 bucks difference is more than half of the price of the least expensive card you NEED to actually barely satisfy the listed needs of the OP.
Half of the full price is more than you should actually spend to get everything the OP actually wanted to be able to do.