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Why does nullsec care so much about what highsec is doing?

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#501 - 2012-12-15 16:39:00 UTC
Yep La Nariz, even as someone who mines I agree. I'm a huge advocate of freewil and consequences. If something needs to be changed because of progression or what not, fine, I'm all for it.

Catering to whining not so much.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#502 - 2012-12-15 16:42:08 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


yeah cause we all know Goons dont have an agenda

the Goon is strong in this thread lol

I should probably start attending our weekly agenda meetings so I to know as much as you.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#503 - 2012-12-15 16:49:37 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
yeah cause we all know Goons dont have an agenda

the Goon is strong in this thread lol

I should probably start attending our weekly agenda meetings so I to know as much as you.

Yeah, I mean, you've been out of the loop ...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#504 - 2012-12-15 16:57:49 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
yeah cause we all know Goons dont have an agenda

the Goon is strong in this thread lol

I should probably start attending our weekly agenda meetings so I to know as much as you.

Yeah, I mean, you've been out of the loop ...


I wonder when someone will start a rumor about you guys having a NKVD like arm in the corp to watch over the level of endoctrinement of all members. It's bound to happen right?
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#505 - 2012-12-15 17:17:34 UTC
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Players in Highsec cant have 100% risk free game and cant make ISK as they want.


You're assuming null sec is more dangerous than high sec. That's not necessarily true. It should be, but it's not.

There was a blog last year listing pretty much everything that's wrong with Null Sec and the list still holds true today. Go read it:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=944
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#506 - 2012-12-15 17:53:47 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
I should probably start attending our weekly agenda meetings so I to know as much as you.

Yeah, I mean, you've been out of the loop ...

I wonder when someone will start a rumor about you guys having a NKVD like arm in the corp to watch over the level of endoctrinement of all members. It's bound to happen right?

You haven't heard of it? They're terrifying, catching the subversives and spais.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#507 - 2012-12-15 17:58:55 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
I should probably start attending our weekly agenda meetings so I to know as much as you.

Yeah, I mean, you've been out of the loop ...

I wonder when someone will start a rumor about you guys having a NKVD like arm in the corp to watch over the level of endoctrinement of all members. It's bound to happen right?

You haven't heard of it? They're terrifying, catching the subversives and spais.


Whats the point of spais? There is publicity over pretty much everything you do. Well the content creation at least.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#508 - 2012-12-15 18:16:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Whats the point of spais? There is publicity over pretty much everything you do. Well the content creation at least.

Things like what's the fleet coming out, what's in it, who is FCing (so you can primary them), what route are they taking (so you can bomb on gates), where are the titans ...

And also, if there are too many blobs, don't undock.


In Tenal, we caught a spy telling the enemy how many people we had undocked. Hilariously, it meant that they turned around and redocked...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Imports Plus
Doomheim
#509 - 2012-12-15 18:29:33 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Whats the point of spais? There is publicity over pretty much everything you do. Well the content creation at least.


Knowing your enemies fleetcomp and fittings can be the difference between victory and defeat.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#510 - 2012-12-15 18:57:47 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Players in Highsec cant have 100% risk free game and cant make ISK as they want.


You're assuming null sec is more dangerous than high sec. That's not necessarily true. It should be, but it's not.

There was a blog last year listing pretty much everything that's wrong with Null Sec and the list still holds true today. Go read it:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=944

I'm sorry, no.

No, you can not draw a comparison of realative safety between safety created entirely by us, and safety that is entirely governed by mechanics.

If people did the same things in high sec that we did in null, you wouldn't need CONCORD.

You can not drop a warp bubble between two gates in high sec.
God doesn't kill you if you shoot a ship in null.
Developers do not impose safety measures in null, we the playrs make it safer.

You can not compare the two.
Yes null sec is more dangerous. Just because it's safer for me to fly in Deklein than it is for you doesn't make it "safe".

Driving your car down the road while texting with your eyes closed is always going to be more dangerous than simply paying attention to what you're doing. That's why it's safer for some of us in null than some of you in high. It's your own fault, not the game.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#511 - 2012-12-15 22:40:14 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Players in Highsec cant have 100% risk free game and cant make ISK as they want.


You're assuming null sec is more dangerous than high sec. That's not necessarily true. It should be, but it's not.

There was a blog last year listing pretty much everything that's wrong with Null Sec and the list still holds true today. Go read it:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=944

You didn't read that blog did you, or if you did you only retained what YOU wanted to.

Here is a little quote from that blog that you kinda overlooked:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Nullsec features can (and often should) allow players to mitigate the inherent danger of Nullsec with effort, teamwork and organization, but they should never make a player feel safe while in space, or secure in their investments from month to month: every organization should have a discoverable weakness, and anything that can be built up in should be possible to tear down again


They [nullsecers] made it safe, so stop complaining that it is to safe in null.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#512 - 2012-12-15 22:45:36 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Players in Highsec cant have 100% risk free game and cant make ISK as they want.


You're assuming null sec is more dangerous than high sec. That's not necessarily true. It should be, but it's not.

There was a blog last year listing pretty much everything that's wrong with Null Sec and the list still holds true today. Go read it:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=944

You didn't read that blog did you, or if you did you only retained what YOU wanted to.

Here is a little quote from that blog that you kinda overlooked:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Nullsec features can (and often should) allow players to mitigate the inherent danger of Nullsec with effort, teamwork and organization, but they should never make a player feel safe while in space, or secure in their investments from month to month: every organization should have a discoverable weakness, and anything that can be built up in should be possible to tear down again


They [nullsecers] made it safe, so stop complaining that it is to safe in null.



Interesting quote from Greyscale.

Too bad it is anything but true because there are several mechanics which does exactly the opposite of what he wants to see. He talks about organizational weaknesses, players should never feel safe whilst being in space etc etc, yet null-sec in it's current form does EXACTLY that.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#513 - 2012-12-15 22:57:42 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Interesting quote from Greyscale.

Too bad it is anything but true because there are several mechanics which does exactly the opposite of what he wants to see. He talks about organizational weaknesses, players should never feel safe whilst being in space etc etc, yet null-sec in it's current form does EXACTLY that.

And how many threads about, cloakie capmers, hotdrop whines, and the "failurecascade" of an alliance, are on these forums? They aren't "safe", they've just made it "safer".

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#514 - 2012-12-15 23:08:24 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Interesting quote from Greyscale.

Too bad it is anything but true because there are several mechanics which does exactly the opposite of what he wants to see. He talks about organizational weaknesses, players should never feel safe whilst being in space etc etc, yet null-sec in it's current form does EXACTLY that.

And how many threads about, cloakie capmers, hotdrop whines, and the "failurecascade" of an alliance, are on these forums? They aren't "safe", they've just made it "safer".


You know what I mean. Because null-sec is controlled space you generally always have buddies nearby. You know it and whatever opponent knows that as well.

Combine that with some omni-local love and somewhat awake corp mates and everyone can scurry to the nearest PoS shield the second any outsider enters their turf.

Obviously the situation may every now and then favour whoever is on the offensive and succeed with a hotdrop or some such but overall, null is a heck of a lot safer than low-sec.

Greyscale talks about "discoverable weaknesses" and I wonder what kind of weaknesses he is talking about? Exposed supply chains? Sorry, they don't exist. Exposed industrial pockets? Again, look at local. A lone PoS at the outskirts of someone's territory? Sorry, need a blob to deal with that and with the ever-lovely cyno, the bigger the alliance you face off against, the higher the odds that they can jump in and defend from half a galaxy away.

It's really amazing how powerful the power of information can be, and praise be EVE who provides it to everyone for free in an instant.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2012-12-15 23:20:45 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:

Interesting quote from Greyscale.

Too bad it is anything but true because there are several mechanics which does exactly the opposite of what he wants to see. He talks about organizational weaknesses, players should never feel safe whilst being in space etc etc, yet null-sec in it's current form does EXACTLY that.


I guess that quote about suicide ganking is also untrue then as well right?

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#516 - 2012-12-15 23:24:56 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:

Interesting quote from Greyscale.

Too bad it is anything but true because there are several mechanics which does exactly the opposite of what he wants to see. He talks about organizational weaknesses, players should never feel safe whilst being in space etc etc, yet null-sec in it's current form does EXACTLY that.


I guess that quote about suicide ganking is also untrue then as well right?


We shall truct the high-sec publords over the devs. That way we will understand the game. How could the devs even pretend to know better?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#517 - 2012-12-15 23:25:46 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Interesting quote from Greyscale.

Too bad it is anything but true because there are several mechanics which does exactly the opposite of what he wants to see. He talks about organizational weaknesses, players should never feel safe whilst being in space etc etc, yet null-sec in it's current form does EXACTLY that.

And how many threads about, cloakie capmers, hotdrop whines, and the "failurecascade" of an alliance, are on these forums? They aren't "safe", they've just made it "safer".


You know what I mean. Because null-sec is controlled space you generally always have buddies nearby. You know it and whatever opponent knows that as well.

Combine that with some omni-local love and somewhat awake corp mates and everyone can scurry to the nearest PoS shield the second any outsider enters their turf.

Obviously the situation may every now and then favour whoever is on the offensive and succeed with a hotdrop or some such but overall, null is a heck of a lot safer than low-sec.

Greyscale talks about "discoverable weaknesses" and I wonder what kind of weaknesses he is talking about? Exposed supply chains? Sorry, they don't exist. Exposed industrial pockets? Again, look at local. A lone PoS at the outskirts of someone's territory? Sorry, need a blob to deal with that and with the ever-lovely cyno, the bigger the alliance you face off against, the higher the odds that they can jump in and defend from half a galaxy away.

It's really amazing how powerful the power of information can be, and praise be EVE who provides it to everyone for free in an instant.


"discoverable weaknesses" maybe you should try discovering them instead of whining about local, intel channels and good diplomacy.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#518 - 2012-12-15 23:29:43 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:

Interesting quote from Greyscale.

Too bad it is anything but true because there are several mechanics which does exactly the opposite of what he wants to see. He talks about organizational weaknesses, players should never feel safe whilst being in space etc etc, yet null-sec in it's current form does EXACTLY that.


I guess that quote about suicide ganking is also untrue then as well right?


Suicide ganking should just disappear already - omnipotent CONCORD is an outdated concept. The way I see it it's less than a step required for that to happen anyway considering how the new crimewatch is set up. On the other hand certain restrictions for criminals must be set in place such as denial of docking in high-sec stations (maybe have bribes or some such as a feature to temporarily gain access, you know, shady stuff)

It should be felt when you are a criminal but as far as CONCORD is concerned, it is just a restriction.

Do that and high-sec will be just that, high-sec. It's safe but only so much. Criminals, pirates may invade at any given time and the only thing that fend them off are local police and other players, not some insta-popping entity.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#519 - 2012-12-15 23:31:34 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Interesting quote from Greyscale.

Too bad it is anything but true because there are several mechanics which does exactly the opposite of what he wants to see. He talks about organizational weaknesses, players should never feel safe whilst being in space etc etc, yet null-sec in it's current form does EXACTLY that.

And how many threads about, cloakie capmers, hotdrop whines, and the "failurecascade" of an alliance, are on these forums? They aren't "safe", they've just made it "safer".


You know what I mean. Because null-sec is controlled space you generally always have buddies nearby. You know it and whatever opponent knows that as well.

Combine that with some omni-local love and somewhat awake corp mates and everyone can scurry to the nearest PoS shield the second any outsider enters their turf.

Obviously the situation may every now and then favour whoever is on the offensive and succeed with a hotdrop or some such but overall, null is a heck of a lot safer than low-sec.

Greyscale talks about "discoverable weaknesses" and I wonder what kind of weaknesses he is talking about? Exposed supply chains? Sorry, they don't exist. Exposed industrial pockets? Again, look at local. A lone PoS at the outskirts of someone's territory? Sorry, need a blob to deal with that and with the ever-lovely cyno, the bigger the alliance you face off against, the higher the odds that they can jump in and defend from half a galaxy away.

It's really amazing how powerful the power of information can be, and praise be EVE who provides it to everyone for free in an instant.


"discoverable weaknesses" maybe you should try discovering them instead of whining about local, intel channels and good diplomacy.


Well then oh wise one. Do tell me what weaknesses can be exploited if you face the biggest alliances? Anything that can cause serious economic damage over time.

Anything apart from having a huge blob fleet of your own that takes out PoS's that is.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#520 - 2012-12-15 23:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Gillia Winddancer wrote:

Suicide ganking should just disappear already - omnipotent CONCORD is an outdated concept. The way I see it it's less than a step required for that to happen anyway considering how the new crimewatch is set up. On the other hand certain restrictions for criminals must be set in place such as denial of docking in high-sec stations (maybe have bribes or some such as a feature to temporarily gain access, you know, shady stuff)

It should be felt when you are a criminal but as far as CONCORD is concerned, it is just a restriction.

Do that and high-sec will be just that, high-sec. It's safe but only so much. Criminals, pirates may invade at any given time and the only thing that fend them off are local police and other players, not some insta-popping entity.


That sounds like a good idea, CONCORD/faction police are completely removed but criminals can no longer dock in highsec. That would be an actual increase in risk for highsec to compensate for all of these reward buffs it has received.

Gillia Winddancer wrote:

Well then oh wise one. Do tell me what weaknesses can be exploited if you face the biggest alliances? Anything that can cause serious economic damage over time.

Anything apart from having a huge blob fleet of your own that takes out PoS's that is.


Send us all of the bittcoins and we might be too distracted to do anything else.

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