These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why does nullsec care so much about what highsec is doing?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#421 - 2012-12-14 16:09:34 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Eh, people are going to play that have serious problems with getting shot at. When they inevitably get shot at they will ragequit, some will whine on the forums as part of that process.

Some portion of those people will HTFU and come back as better players, some won't.

I don't see any reason to be concerned with them at all.


Because they shout very loudly, and their shouts are directed at CCP, demanding changes to the mechanics to facilitate their playstyle and their playstyle only.

That's why everyone hates them
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#422 - 2012-12-14 16:11:50 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Just to be really clear, Jenn aSide, why do you care if there are people playing EvE that don't want to get shot at by other players?

As long as they recognize and accept the risk that they might be, they really are nothing to your playstyle but occasional targets of opportunity (to paraphrase your own post).

Yes, there will be odd bits of forum whining, but that's part of what the forums are for.

EvE's strength is variety, and wimps are part of any decent gaming ecosystem.


A player who does their best not to get shot at is a good player.

A player who does their best to get the game changed so they can't be shot at is a bad player.

The latter group doesn't have much staying power in EvE, in case you haven't noticed, and even less leverage with CCP.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#423 - 2012-12-14 16:18:16 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Eh, people are going to play that have serious problems with getting shot at. When they inevitably get shot at they will ragequit, some will whine on the forums as part of that process.

Some portion of those people will HTFU and come back as better players, some won't.

I don't see any reason to be concerned with them at all.



Then don't be.

I'm not "concerned" about them, I'm telling those of them who rage on the forums that they have every right to speak so long as ccp gives us that right here, I choose to exercise that right by point at them and laughing hysterically because they were dumb enough to be surprised at getting shot in a video game.

You really are excessively dense. This is what I said to the poster:
Quote:
Did you really come into a game with guns on space ships and expect to not get shot at?


I avoid being shot as much as i can, as others have said, that's not the problem. but when people in a space ship game where the ships have guns shoot me, I don't fall on the floor crying while screaming "why did you shoot me, i was just trying to make some isk and/or mine"!
Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#424 - 2012-12-14 16:20:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bud Austrene wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
Bud Austrene wrote:
I am having fun mining, doing missions and manufacturing.

All of which inject ISK, materials, or finished goods into the economy, unless you're one of those people who never touch the market. Thus, you affect other players.

Bud Austrene wrote:
I do not see that i have to have fun at the expense of others.

You affect other players, thus you are having fun at their expense. Your goods and ISK factor into the equation, thus you should be free game for all.


I did not realize that i was having fun and anyone's expense.
I thought it was a win-win situation.
I am not complaining about being a target i am just curious what evil i am doing that causes you to think you are justified in making me a target.
If you do the same things i do you can have the same things i have.
I am beginning to think that the justification that you and others like you are using is basically that I am not like you and don't think like you.


I'm going to ask you high sec people (not just you Bud), Why in hell you keep coming back to this? Why do you think it's personal?

You are nobody to me, you might as well by a Guristas NPC Battleship as far as I care.

The difference between you and a Guristas NPC Battleship is that the Guristas never ask me why I don't like their playstyle when i slaughter them by the tens of thousand and take the loot + bounty. I kill them because they are there and ccp gave me guns for my space ship.

Did you really come into a game with guns on space ships and expect to not get shot at? WTF are they teaching in public schools these days?


You totally misunderstand.
I am a businessman.
I need customers to stay in business.
I would like to understand what motivates my customers so i can anticipate their needs.
I am not worried about CCP allowing the PVP's to run amok in High-sec .
Their past actions has shown that they understand the economics of the situation.
If not for my (and others like me) mining and manufacturing there would be no explosions.
Unless you and your victims are self-sufficient and make your own stuff you need carebears in the game to keep you in toys.
CCP understands that there is a balance that needs to be kept in order to make the game work.
But i can not understand why some feel that they should be allowed to come disrupt my business.
It makes no sense to me and i would like to understand.
If you disrupt what i am doing then you will have less to destroy.
There is a chance that at some time in the past year that some of the tritanium components of your toys and your victim's toys were mined by me.
I want the PVPers to have more explosions, more violence. It is good for business.
If you really want to hurt the Carebears, reduce your violence so you do not need the products that High-sec provides.
Do you truly not understand the "supply and demand" component of the Eve economy.
Hulkathon was good for business, mineral prices went up.
If You and those like you make it more risky to mine and manufacture, the additional cost will be passed on to the end customer.
And in this game the end customer is the PVPers (You).
Do you really think that if every time you run out of ammo or lose a ship that you then had to go mine for awhile and then wait for a manufacturing slot to get the replacements made would increase your fun.
And lets say that you don't get blown up, will if be fun for you to wait for your opponent to go mine and manufacture replacements (provided he can be motivated to do so) so you can blow him up again.

Carebears provide relative cheap replacements and make the game more fun for everyone.
And I would like to understand why they are not appreciate more.

I like playing this MMO solo because the game provides customers.
I would like to understand why there seems to be such a desire for Carebears to share the risk.
I would think that the Carebears would be cared for and pampered because to the value they bring to the game.





Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#425 - 2012-12-14 16:21:10 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Just to be really clear, Jenn aSide, why do you care if there are people playing EvE that don't want to get shot at by other players?

As long as they recognize and accept the risk that they might be, they really are nothing to your playstyle but occasional targets of opportunity (to paraphrase your own post).

Yes, there will be odd bits of forum whining, but that's part of what the forums are for.

EvE's strength is variety, and wimps are part of any decent gaming ecosystem.


A player who does their best not to get shot at is a good player.

A player who does their best to get the game changed so they can't be shot at is a bad player.

The latter group doesn't have much staying power in EvE, in case you haven't noticed, and even less leverage with CCP.

And it's ok for the community to stand up and tell them they're wrong when they do that.

Just as it's ok to stand up and tell people who suggest removing high sec that they're wrong.


Minority groups like that tend to end up having impact when theirs is the only voice being heard.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#426 - 2012-12-14 16:24:32 UTC
Yet you care enough to come on the forums and rant at them.

CCP knows that it is the risk that makes so many players loyal to the game, you don't really believe a few crybabies on the forums will make them change the fundamentals of the game in that respect, do you?

Heck, if it weren't for the risk and the planning necessary to deal with that risk I'd have gotten bored and wandered off long ago, and odds are you would have also. Without the risk of getting shot at by other players anywhere in space this would just be ProgressQuest with extra spreadsheet action.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#427 - 2012-12-14 16:29:51 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:

You totally misunderstand.
I am a businessman.
I need customers to stay in business.
I would like to understand what motivates my customers so i can anticipate their needs.
I am not worried about CCP allowing the PVP's to run amok in High-sec .
Their past actions has shown that they understand the economics of the situation.
If not for my (and others like me) mining and manufacturing there would be no explosions.
Unless you and your victims are self-sufficient and make your own stuff you need carebears in the game to keep you in toys.
CCP understands that there is a balance that needs to be kept in order to make the game work.
But i can not understand why some feel that they should be allowed to come disrupt my business.
It makes no sense to me and i would like to understand.
If you disrupt what i am doing then you will have less to destroy.
There is a chance that at some time in the past year that some of the tritanium components of your toys and your victim's toys were mined by me.
I want the PVPers to have more explosions, more violence. It is good for business.
If you really want to hurt the Carebears, reduce your violence so you do not need the products that High-sec provides.
Do you truly not understand the "supply and demand" component of the Eve economy.
Hulkathon was good for business, mineral prices went up.
If You and those like you make it more risky to mine and manufacture, the additional cost will be passed on to the end customer.
And in this game the end customer is the PVPers (You).
Do you really think that if every time you run out of ammo or lose a ship that you then had to go mine for awhile and then wait for a manufacturing slot to get the replacements made would increase your fun.
And lets say that you don't get blown up, will if be fun for you to wait for your opponent to go mine and manufacture replacements (provided he can be motivated to do so) so you can blow him up again.

Carebears provide relative cheap replacements and make the game more fun for everyone.
And I would like to understand why they are not appreciate more.

I like playing this MMO solo because the game provides customers.
I would like to understand why there seems to be such a desire for Carebears to share the risk.
I would think that the Carebears would be cared for and pampered because to the value they bring to the game.

You seem to be under the impression that the same people who want to blow up the industrials in high sec, aren't benefiting from increasing the price of minerals and goods.

As a null sec industrialists, low prices in high sec is the OPPOSITE of what I want.
You're trying to simplify everything down to a simple "supply and demand" as if it's the only factor within the economy, and that higher demand and lower prices is the "best" situation in EVE.

You're very, very wrong.
The guy in a merlin getting blown up isn't as benefitial to me as the guy in the freighter or exhumer getting blown up.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#428 - 2012-12-14 16:30:53 UTC
Bud Austrene wrote:


You totally misunderstand.
I am a businessman.
I need customers to stay in business.
I would like to understand what motivates my customers so i can anticipate their needs.
I am not worried about CCP allowing the PVP's to run amok in High-sec .
Their past actions has shown that they understand the economics of the situation.
If not for my (and others like me) mining and manufacturing there would be no explosions.
Unless you and your victims are self-sufficient and make your own stuff you need carebears in the game to keep you in toys.
CCP understands that there is a balance that needs to be kept in order to make the game work.
But i can not understand why some feel that they should be allowed to come disrupt my business.
It makes no sense to me and i would like to understand.
If you disrupt what i am doing then you will have less to destroy.
There is a chance that at some time in the past year that some of the tritanium components of your toys and your victim's toys were mined by me.
I want the PVPers to have more explosions, more violence. It is good for business.
If you really want to hurt the Carebears, reduce your violence so you do not need the products that High-sec provides.
Do you truly not understand the "supply and demand" component of the Eve economy.
Hulkathon was good for business, mineral prices went up.
If You and those like you make it more risky to mine and manufacture, the additional cost will be passed on to the end customer.
And in this game the end customer is the PVPers (You).
Do you really think that if every time you run out of ammo or lose a ship that you then had to go mine for awhile and then wait for a manufacturing slot to get the replacements made would increase your fun.
And lets say that you don't get blown up, will if be fun for you to wait for your opponent to go mine and manufacture replacements (provided he can be motivated to do so) so you can blow him up again.

Carebears provide relative cheap replacements and make the game more fun for everyone.
And I would like to understand why they are not appreciate more.

I like playing this MMO solo because the game provides customers.
I would like to understand why there seems to be such a desire for Carebears to share the risk.
I would think that the Carebears would be cared for and pampered because to the value they bring to the game.



None of that has anything to do with anything I've said, it's jsut a bunch of excuse making about how you don't want people to mess with you or your business. You chose to log in to EVE onlie, If I choose to mess with you I will, your options are put up with it, fight back or log off.

You keep talking about pvp'rs. I am a mostly pve player. I, unlike you, understand that even though I tend to choose to shoot npcs, I'm still part of EVE and subject to negative interaction with others.
Silath Slyver Silverpine
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#429 - 2012-12-14 16:31:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Silath Slyver Silverpine
Bud Austrene wrote:


You totally misunderstand.
I am a businessman.
I need customers to stay in business.
. . .

If You and those like you make it more risky to mine and manufacture, the additional cost will be passed on to the end customer.
And in this game the end customer is the PVPers (You).
Do you really think that if every time you run out of ammo or lose a ship that you then had to go mine for awhile and then wait for a manufacturing slot to get the replacements made would increase your fun.
And lets say that you don't get blown up, will if be fun for you to wait for your opponent to go mine and manufacture replacements (provided he can be motivated to do so) so you can blow him up again.

Carebears provide relative cheap replacements and make the game more fun for everyone.
And I would like to understand why they are not appreciate more.

I like playing this MMO solo because the game provides customers.
I would like to understand why there seems to be such a desire for Carebears to share the risk.
I would think that the Carebears would be cared for and pampered because to the value they bring to the game.





Your problem is you're attempting to apply logic to a group of people that act only on immediate emotions and desires, without thought to long term consequences.
It's like trying to understand why a sociopathic killer murders someone.

And no, before someone decides to set up a straw man argument, I am not equating suicide gankers to sociopathic murderers.

Sometimes there is logic, as in the case of gate camps for example. They won't kill you unless it's profitable to do so. That's an entirely different case.

*edit* and as Natset Amuinn stated, there's often an economic reason for aggressive actions that isn't immediately apparent. When I speak of people not using logic, I mean only those relative few who gank for lulz.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#430 - 2012-12-14 16:33:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


None of that has anything to do with anything I've said, it's jsut a bunch of excuse making about how you don't want people to mess with you or your business. You chose to log in to EVE onlie, If I choose to mess with you I will, your options are put up with it, fight back or log off.

You keep talking about pvp'rs. I am a mostly pve player. I, unlike you, understand that even though I tend to choose to shoot npcs, I'm still part of EVE and subject to negative interaction with others.

You'd think your sig would be a hint.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#431 - 2012-12-14 16:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Yet you care enough to come on the forums and rant at them.


Yes, because stupidity that guys unchallenged festers and grows. I'm against stupid people who make choices and then don't want consequences. The consequence of logging into EVE online and undocking may include getting shot at, getting bumbped, getting scammed or screwed with etc. Don't like it, play WOW.

Read my signature.

Quote:

CCP knows that it is the risk that makes so many players loyal to the game, you don't really believe a few crybabies on the forums will make them change the fundamentals of the game in that respect, do you?


They already have. You must not have played EVE for very long.

Quote:

Heck, if it weren't for the risk and the planning necessary to deal with that risk I'd have gotten bored and wandered off long ago, and odds are you would have also. Without the risk of getting shot at by other players anywhere in space this would just be ProgressQuest with extra spreadsheet action.


It's much like that already, I don't even had to glance at local or take any precautions when i'm doing high sec pve stuff.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#432 - 2012-12-14 16:35:29 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


None of that has anything to do with anything I've said, it's jsut a bunch of excuse making about how you don't want people to mess with you or your business. You chose to log in to EVE onlie, If I choose to mess with you I will, your options are put up with it, fight back or log off.

You keep talking about pvp'rs. I am a mostly pve player. I, unlike you, understand that even though I tend to choose to shoot npcs, I'm still part of EVE and subject to negative interaction with others.

You'd think your sig would be a hint.


you'd think, but nothing surprises me here any more.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#433 - 2012-12-14 16:35:37 UTC
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:



Your problem is you're attempting to apply logic to a group of people that act only on immediate emotions and desires, without thought to long term consequences.
It's like trying to understand why a sociopathic killer murders someone.

And no, before someone decides to set up a straw man argument, I am not equating suicide gankers to sociopathic murderers.

Sometimes there is logic, as in the case of gate camps for example. They won't kill you unless it's profitable to do so. That's an entirely different case.

*edit* and as Natset Amuinn stated, there's often an economic reason for aggressive actions that isn't immediately apparent. When I speak of people not using logic, I mean only those relative few who gank for lulz.

You're obviously not equating ganking to being a sociopathic killer.

You only use it as a comparetive example to talk about people that gank.


I think CCP should ban people from the forums who do that.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#434 - 2012-12-14 16:38:12 UTC
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:


Your problem is you're attempting to apply logic to a group of people that act only on immediate emotions and desires, without thought to long term consequences.
It's like trying to understand why a sociopathic killer murders someone.

And no, before someone decides to set up a straw man argument, I am not equating suicide gankers to sociopathic murderers.

Sometimes there is logic, as in the case of gate camps for example. They won't kill you unless it's profitable to do so. That's an entirely different case.

*edit* and as Natset Amuinn stated, there's often an economic reason for aggressive actions that isn't immediately apparent. When I speak of people not using logic, I mean only those relative few who gank for lulz.


We're playing a game where most of the ships have guns, you think people need a reason other than logging into a space ship with guns game to shoot people?

Un-freaking-believable.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#435 - 2012-12-14 16:42:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Quote:

CCP knows that it is the risk that makes so many players loyal to the game, you don't really believe a few crybabies on the forums will make them change the fundamentals of the game in that respect, do you?


They already have. You must not have played EVE for very long.

An example please? If you are talking about the mining barge changes, they took away my favorite lowsec hauler when they did those :(
Quote:

Quote:

Heck, if it weren't for the risk and the planning necessary to deal with that risk I'd have gotten bored and wandered off long ago, and odds are you would have also. Without the risk of getting shot at by other players anywhere in space this would just be ProgressQuest with extra spreadsheet action.


It's much like that already, I don't even had to glance at local or take any precautions when i'm doing high sec pve stuff.

Not that looking at local in highsec ever did anyone any good. Too much noise to pick a decent signal out of.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Silath Slyver Silverpine
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#436 - 2012-12-14 16:42:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Silath Slyver Silverpine
Jenn aSide wrote:


We're playing a game where most of the ships have guns, you think people need a reason other than logging into a space ship with guns game to shoot people?

Un-freaking-believable.


I specifically stated that some people don't need a reason (Do it for the lulz and because of emotions). Your reading comprehension skills could use some work. I don't think anyone needs a reason for anything. If you want to do it, do it. Be aware of and willing to accept the consequences of your actions.

Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You're obviously not equating ganking to being a sociopathic killer.

You only use it as a comparetive example to talk about people that gank.


I think CCP should ban people from the forums who do that.


The mindset is similar, in the sense of a child seeking to satisfy emotional desires without regard for consequences. I make no claims that blowing up a spaceship in EvE is in any way similar to murdering someone IRL.

However, you seem keen and quick to jump on the assumption that I was indeed trying to claim that.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#437 - 2012-12-14 16:48:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:


The mindset is similar, in the sense of a child seeking to satisfy emotional desires without regard for consequences. I make no claims that blowing up a spaceship in EvE is in any way similar to murdering someone IRL.

However, you seem keen and quick to jump on the assumption that I was indeed trying to claim that..



You're right.

You only used it as a comparative example to talk about people that gank in EVE.

You obviously weren't attempting to call them sociopathic killers because they gank, only use it as an example to talk about people that do such a thing.

You obviously have no problem with high sec pvp. Your OP and every follow up responce clearly indicates you have no problem with high sec pvp.

You didn't complain once.

Obviously.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#438 - 2012-12-14 16:53:39 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:


The mindset is similar, in the sense of a child seeking to satisfy emotional desires without regard for consequences. I make no claims that blowing up a spaceship in EvE is in any way similar to murdering someone IRL.

However, you seem keen and quick to jump on the assumption that I was indeed trying to claim that..



You're right.

You only used it as a comparative example to talk about people that gank in EVE.

You obviously weren't attempting to call them sociopathic killers because they gank, only use it as an example to talk about people that do such a thing.

You obviously have no problem with high sec pvp. Your OP and every follow up responce clearly indicates you have no problem with high sec pvp.

You didn't complain once.

Obviously.


lulz

You broke my sarcasm meter.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#439 - 2012-12-14 16:58:05 UTC
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


We're playing a game where most of the ships have guns, you think people need a reason other than logging into a space ship with guns game to shoot people?

Un-freaking-believable.


I specifically stated that some people don't need a reason (Do it for the lulz and because of emotions). Your reading comprehension skills could use some work. I don't think anyone needs a reason for anything. If you want to do it, do it. Be aware of and willing to accept the consequences of your actions.
to claim that.


So I just imagined you wrote
Quote:
When I speak of people not using logic, I mean only those relative few who gank for lulz.


Which would suggest to anyone who speaks English that people who "gank for the Lulz" are not using logic.

Simply because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not logical. It's perfectly logical to shoot someone for no reason at all in a video game that features space ships with guns... It's you who are illogical.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#440 - 2012-12-14 17:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
Bud Austrene wrote:


You totally misunderstand.
I am a businessman.
I need customers to stay in business.
I would like to understand what motivates my customers so i can anticipate their needs.
I am not worried about CCP allowing the PVP's to run amok in High-sec .
Their past actions has shown that they understand the economics of the situation.
If not for my (and others like me) mining and manufacturing there would be no explosions.
Unless you and your victims are self-sufficient and make your own stuff you need carebears in the game to keep you in toys.
CCP understands that there is a balance that needs to be kept in order to make the game work.
But i can not understand why some feel that they should be allowed to come disrupt my business.
It makes no sense to me and i would like to understand.
If you disrupt what i am doing then you will have less to destroy.
There is a chance that at some time in the past year that some of the tritanium components of your toys and your victim's toys were mined by me.
I want the PVPers to have more explosions, more violence. It is good for business.
If you really want to hurt the Carebears, reduce your violence so you do not need the products that High-sec provides.
Do you truly not understand the "supply and demand" component of the Eve economy.
Hulkathon was good for business, mineral prices went up.
If You and those like you make it more risky to mine and manufacture, the additional cost will be passed on to the end customer.
And in this game the end customer is the PVPers (You).
Do you really think that if every time you run out of ammo or lose a ship that you then had to go mine for awhile and then wait for a manufacturing slot to get the replacements made would increase your fun.
And lets say that you don't get blown up, will if be fun for you to wait for your opponent to go mine and manufacture replacements (provided he can be motivated to do so) so you can blow him up again.

Carebears provide relative cheap replacements and make the game more fun for everyone.
And I would like to understand why they are not appreciate more.

I like playing this MMO solo because the game provides customers.
I would like to understand why there seems to be such a desire for Carebears to share the risk.
I would think that the Carebears would be cared for and pampered because to the value they bring to the game.







I see this type of self aggrandising crap too often from carebears. Talking about the "economical" benefit to CCP of pandering to them, and how utterly vital they are to EVE (with the implication that shooting them will ruin the game for everyone), etc.

You claim that carebears bring value to the game, but by themselves they don't. That's the truth of it. Without the people killing them (and other people) carebears would contribute nothing except stockpiles of useless isk and materials.

You see, it's a two way street.

And the reason they're not appreciated is because many of them demonstrate extreme misunderstanding of what this game is or how it works. The ones who mine or mission or whatever and accept the pvp aspects of the game without stomping their foot and demanding to be exempt from types of play they don't like are fine and ARE appreciated. It's the selfish greedy shortsighted ones that aren't, because there's nothing to respect or appreciate there