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Why does nullsec care so much about what highsec is doing?

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Frying Doom
#281 - 2012-12-12 21:34:20 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Also, don't give me that "no miners no minerals" crap. You see, I operate under a personal directive to purge the Galaxy of all carebears. Also Gallente, but that's a different forum. Anyway, did I say I actually expect to achieve these things? No, but I'm going to try my damnedest, and I have to admit I would be pretty proud of myself if you actually let us "purge the galaxy of your kind", and that is exactly why such a thing ever actually would happen, because the carebears let us, and never stood up for themselves.

In conclusion, DEATH TO CAREBEARS! Also, DEATH TO GALLENTE!
(Gallente miners especially.)

Oh look I am Gallente and I mine. You better come hunt me down... No I am not in hi-sec so you need to stop hiding behind concord protection and come out and find me.

You could start off easy by looking in lo-sec

Oh sorry I forgot, you like to hide behind the protection of concord so you dont get ganked and have to actually be involved in PvP.

So here is an idea put a mirror next to your computer, that way everytime you undock you can point at the mirror and yell "Carebear" and self destruct so your genocide of carebears racks up some good numbers.

Or you can leave the Hi-sec Cowards Association and do some real PvP, rather than trying to justify hiding behind concord while accusing others of hiding behind concord.


Obviously, ganking in high sec affords you CONCORD protection.

I don't believe for a minute you play anyplace other than high sec.


Haha, man it is conclusive. He gets waaaaaaaayyy too mad about this stuff to be anything but a 0.7 space 7-mackinaw runnin' hyper-defensive alpha-carebear. Frying Doom dude, go back to WoW...

Ahhh the cowards of EvE to scared to go out from Hi-sec.

Why is it because I don't like cowards I must therefore be from hi-sec. Also no I don't get mad I just believe in mocking cowards. Cowards should always be mocked, otherwise they might start believing that they are doing the place some kind of service and lets be blunt cowards are not doing anyone any service, other than hiding the fact that they are cowards from them selves.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#282 - 2012-12-12 21:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You're still doing this?


You are the one who replied earlier and not the one I asked this second question to.


Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You tell us then.


My question is exactly made to make think how stupid is to demand a nerf when comparing apples and oranges.

Hi sec cannot be related to low / null sec at all, there's no nerf EVER that could factor in the lack of risk.

So how can you nerf something that is just *alien* to EvE like hi sec is? You either remove it or you put features outside of it that cannot be achieved in there, whatever you do.
I.e. in hi sec you can't do reactions nor fly caps nor make supercaps nor mine high ends. That was the path CCP should have persisted but no, they implemented PI and then incursions both in hi sec and low / null.

Now, create 2-3-4 expansions where everything is only added in low / null (plus also add refineries and production slots) and this is the worst nerf for hi sec, because all the new shiny goodies will be forever out of hi sec grasp.

This way you enrich low and null sec - the ticket is called "risk" - while hi sec remains stagnant, a "demo mode" where indeed newbies and "fell out of grace" guys kicked out of their space can revert to.

Any other approach is just illogical, both on the apples vs oranges side and on the CCP bottom line.

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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#283 - 2012-12-12 21:43:12 UTC
Also Mr. Frying Doom, could you somehow explain to me how bringing your main character down to -10 making you a target to any player and a fast-responding omnipotent police-force, while handing out kill-rights like breath-mints is somehow hiding behind concord? Believe me bud, in the age of crimewatch 2.0 and with a -10 sec status, concord is the least of my concerns.
Also, when have I ever accused anyone of "hiding behind concord", what is it with you and the strawmen?

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Robertina Bering
Doomheim
#284 - 2012-12-12 21:44:08 UTC
Some of my alts live in nullsec, some in highsec... so it's a bit confusing for me to hate myself :)
Robertina Bering
Doomheim
#285 - 2012-12-12 21:47:03 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Also, when have I ever accused anyone of "hiding behind concord", what is it with you and the strawmen?


He's hiding behind nullsec safety :)
Frying Doom
#286 - 2012-12-12 21:52:34 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Also Mr. Frying Doom, could you somehow explain to me how bringing your main character down to -10 making you a target to any player and a fast-responding omnipotent police-force, while handing out kill-rights like breath-mints is somehow hiding behind concord? Believe me bud, in the age of crimewatch 2.0 and with a -10 sec status, concord is the least of my concerns.
Also, when have I ever accused anyone of "hiding behind concord", what is it with you and the strawmen?

Calling people Hi-sec carebears is implying they are hiding behind Concord to prevent them from just getting ganked or making it unprofitable to gank them?

Also I did not say Concord was your problem but I stand corrected. You are -9.3 so does that mean people can just gank you now in hi-sec for the fun of it? sorry crime watch does not really effect me so I have not paid that much attention.

If so good change, ganking cowards that just go after people that cannot shoot back should be everyone's priority.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Roosevelt Coltrane
Rupakaya
#287 - 2012-12-12 21:55:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosevelt Coltrane
Jenn aSide wrote:
Roosevelt Coltrane wrote:
Truth:

Most people don't care.

Most people think E-uni is a good idea, even if they would never be a member

Most people think mining is fine, even if they find it mind numbingly boring

Most people think running missions is fine, even if they find it lacking challenge, dull and repetitive

Maybe they will come and harass you... but its all in fun

But some people have low self esteem and look to a video game for their self worth

You can identify them because they will put down the way another chooses to play

Hisec putting down null.... null hating hisec. Both have low self esteem. Truth.


Sorry, that's just not true, you fell of the rails just as soon as you went to that "because they will put down the way another chooses to play" stuff. I honest to God don't know where this stuff comes from, are people actually sending you EVE mails or convo'ing you and saying "the way you play is wrong, you should play like me"?



Seriously? Have you not read this thread?

Or maybe i just hit too close to home Blink
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#288 - 2012-12-12 21:56:52 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You're still doing this?


You are the one who replied earlier and not the one I asked this second question to.


Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You tell us then.


My question is exactly made to make think how stupid is to demand a nerf when comparing apples and oranges.

Hi sec cannot be related to low / null sec at all, there's no nerf EVER that could factor in the lack of risk.

So how can you nerf something that is just *alien* to EvE like hi sec is? You either remove it or you put features outside of it that cannot be achieved in there, whatever you do.
I.e. in hi sec you can't do reactions nor fly caps nor make supercaps nor mine high ends. That was the path CCP should have persisted but no, they implemented PI and then incursions both in hi sec and low / null.

Now, create 2-3-4 expansions where everything is only added in low / null (plus also add refineries and production slots) and this is the worst nerf for hi sec, because all the new shiny goodies will be forever out of hi sec grasp.

This way you enrich low and null sec - the ticket is called "risk" - while hi sec remains stagnant, a "demo mode" where indeed newbies and "fell out of grace" guys kicked out of their space can revert to.

Any other approach is just illogical, both on the apples vs oranges side and on the CCP bottom line.

You ever go to the S&i forums?

Everyone and there mother seems to have a mining ISK calculater that will tell you what the best ore to mine is for ISK per hour.

Care to explain why all those calculators say the same thing? Mining low end ores in high sec is the best ISK per hour for mining.


But it appears your entire arguement is based on the ideas that high sec is some sort of indipendent area of the game that isn't connected to Null, and that's just wrong. it's all one world. What happens in high sec has impact in null.

And you shouldn't be able to make equivilent ISK for considerably less effort in high sec. It trivializes all other areas of the game, and actually discourages people from leaving.

Why would you leave high sec as an industrialist? You can make considerably more ISK than if you live in null. It's a fact.
And that's not even remotely balanced. And it's not just industry.

And given that there are something like 75% more people in high sec, the ratio of people flying there to those getting blown up are WAY lower compared to other areas of EVE.

What do you need to make as much isk in high sec for, when you guys aren't replacing as much stuff as guys in other areas of the game?

It seems like to me, for an awful lot of people it's so that they can pimp out billion dollar mission ships and pitch a fit that someone blew it up and made a profit.
Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
#289 - 2012-12-12 22:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeko Rena
Quote:

Seriously? Have you not read this thread?

Or maybe i just hit too close to home Blink


Trust me, Jenn has read this thread, after all 70% of the posts are Jenn's Smile
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#290 - 2012-12-12 22:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You ever go to the S&i forums?

Everyone and there mother seems to have a mining ISK calculater that will tell you what the best ore to mine is for ISK per hour.

Care to explain why all those calculators say the same thing? Mining low end ores in high sec is the best ISK per hour for mining.


But it appears your entire arguement is based on the ideas that high sec is some sort of indipendent area of the game that isn't connected to Null, and that's just wrong. it's all one world. What happens in high sec has impact in null.

And you shouldn't be able to make equivilent ISK for considerably less effort in high sec. It trivializes all other areas of the game, and actually discourages people from leaving.


You should make *relevant* arguments. Relevant means i.e. ISK faucets, the fact null lacks of efficient refineries and so on.

Minerals is not an ISK faucet. Minerals are exactly like moon goo, people pay what they *feel* they are worth.

In this particular moment, some low ends are in demand and thus get paid a lot. Other stuff like ices, is extremely depressed.

In this particular moment, some high ends are not in demand and thus get paid little.


You could completely remove every hi sec mission, anom, factory, POS and still those minerals would be priced high.
How do you nerf demand vs supply?

The only way would be to bottleneck high ends, that is nerf null sec ability to create roid sites (WHs too).

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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#291 - 2012-12-12 22:11:42 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Also Mr. Frying Doom, could you somehow explain to me how bringing your main character down to -10 making you a target to any player and a fast-responding omnipotent police-force, while handing out kill-rights like breath-mints is somehow hiding behind concord? Believe me bud, in the age of crimewatch 2.0 and with a -10 sec status, concord is the least of my concerns.
Also, when have I ever accused anyone of "hiding behind concord", what is it with you and the strawmen?

Calling people Hi-sec carebears is implying they are hiding behind Concord to prevent them from just getting ganked or making it unprofitable to gank them?

Also I did not say Concord was your problem but I stand corrected. You are -9.3 so does that mean people can just gank you now in hi-sec for the fun of it? sorry crime watch does not really effect me so I have not paid that much attention.

If so good change, ganking cowards that just go after people that cannot shoot back should be everyone's priority.


It's not a change... What happened man, I thought you had this whole situation figured out right down to our individual personality disorders?

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Jantunen the Infernal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#292 - 2012-12-12 22:12:01 UTC
Because highsec publords are the cancer that is killing eve. And soon instead of being the cold harsh universe with risk and destruction around every corner it used to be, eve will become yet another static themepark MMO catered to carebears where you can sit alone in your mining barge cheerily chipping away at space rocks with your PvP flag turned off without any real risk or point in it. Only by rising up against the horde and making a stand can we, the free people of nullsec, save eve.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#293 - 2012-12-12 22:18:49 UTC
Jantunen the Infernal wrote:
Because highsec publords are the cancer that is killing eve. And soon instead of being the cold harsh universe with risk and destruction around every corner it used to be, eve will become yet another static themepark MMO catered to carebears where you can sit alone in your mining barge cheerily chipping away at space rocks with your PvP flag turned off without any real risk or point in it. Only by rising up against the horde and making a stand can we, the free people of nullsec, save eve.


Then do it.

Bat Country has acted in game, not on the forums.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Roosevelt Coltrane
Rupakaya
#294 - 2012-12-12 22:23:09 UTC
Jantunen the Infernal wrote:
Because highsec publords are the cancer that is killing eve. And soon instead of being the cold harsh universe with risk and destruction around every corner it used to be, eve will become yet another static themepark MMO catered to carebears where you can sit alone in your mining barge cheerily chipping away at space rocks with your PvP flag turned off without any real risk or point in it. Only by rising up against the horde and making a stand can we, the free people of nullsec, save eve.


people who role play on the forums are cute! Big smile
Nytak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#295 - 2012-12-12 22:29:32 UTC
As someone who's played very much on/off for a good 5 years it's still pretty easy for me to see both sides of the argument (as I'm not particularly attached to any certain playstyle yet).

I will say this, high sec feels different now than it did a few years back. Low/Null still make my heart race until I finish what I'm doing there and leave, or take the fast trip back to my home station.

Maybe that's why I like how they've eased up on sentry guns and made killrights activatable for somewhat hassle free encounters in high sec.. Add a bit of the danger back.

Personally I don't think that's enough. The difference between .5 and .4 sure seems a lot larger than than the .1 it is. Restated, I can't recall a time I lost a ship to a player in high sec. Each time I make it out of null/low w/ my ship in tact, I consider it a victory.

I'm perfectly fine with high sec rewards being changed to coincide with risk. I mean, if a high sec player is that hard up for ISK, then they are left with some choices. Extend your timeframe for your goals based on your high sec income.. Take a stab at making profits in low/null (bring friends maybe).. Or PLEX it.

Of course you still have to consider other things... Like players who might only have a very short time to play on weekdays who use that time to run high sec missions in order to fund a weekend of losing ships in low/null... (I do this a lot)...
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#296 - 2012-12-12 22:31:37 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I still don't understand why some people think a 'buff' here instead of a 'nerf' there is different? Referring to risk and reward that is.

I don't undersand why people get so wrapped up in risk vs reward in a game where risk is supposed to be assumed by EVERYONE, but effort is not.

I think a solid portion has to do with the first few days in EVE.
Jantunen the Infernal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#297 - 2012-12-12 22:34:49 UTC
Roosevelt Coltrane wrote:
Jantunen the Infernal wrote:
Because highsec publords are the cancer that is killing eve. And soon instead of being the cold harsh universe with risk and destruction around every corner it used to be, eve will become yet another static themepark MMO catered to carebears where you can sit alone in your mining barge cheerily chipping away at space rocks with your PvP flag turned off without any real risk or point in it. Only by rising up against the horde and making a stand can we, the free people of nullsec, save eve.


people who role play on the forums are cute! Big smile


I don't actually roleplay, it's just that all my posts somehow automatically turn into dramatic speeches when I'm tired or drunk. It's a blessing and a curse, truly. Ironically enough my posts are actually shittier when I'm rested or sober.
Tesal
#298 - 2012-12-12 22:37:36 UTC
The idea that risk vs. reward should be fair makes me chuckle. Life is unfair. EvE Online gameplay is often unfair. CCP has been making things more fair for miners and its been a big nerf to hi-sec pvp. Anything they do to make risk vs. reward more balanced will likely be a nerf in one way or another. Unfortunately, CCP has a different idea of what is fair from many people in this forum. I would rather have things be a bit unbalanced than to have the game nerfed even more.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#299 - 2012-12-12 22:40:57 UTC
Tesal wrote:
The idea that risk vs. reward should be fair makes me chuckle. Life is unfair.

Eve isn't life.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Zoctrine
Doomheim
#300 - 2012-12-12 22:48:34 UTC
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Because this game works in a single shard world and everything that any player does will have impact in the game. Kinda simple actually..

Economy!



Single Shard yes, however, its not a Sand Box game, in fact its leaps and bounds off being a sand box...