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Why does nullsec care so much about what highsec is doing?

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Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#261 - 2012-12-12 20:08:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Galaxy Pig wrote:

No, actually I'm not screwing with them, just being honest. I mentioned the James 315 writing for those who are legitimately curious about how carebears threaten EVE, because James does a pretty good job explaining the feedback-loop theory and highlighting the evidence.

Personally though, I've been dedicated to the genocide of the carebears since long before James 315 outlined a bunch of legitimate reasons to kill them.

I kill them because they are phytoplankton, and I'm a krill, it's the natural order of things. Also, I mean, someone has to shoot them right? They're in EVE and they undocked, so someone should be trying to kill them, I humbly adopt this responsibility.

The one way out is following the code, join the New Order or accept the destruction of your exhumer.




^^ Nice example of "The Other"

Edit
Edward's take on it
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#262 - 2012-12-12 20:08:37 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
I kill them because they are phytoplankton, and I'm a krill, it's the natural order of things. Also, I mean, someone has to shoot them right?

Not if ~certain people~ can help it, it won't be.

Look that lion is ganking the AFK deer. :ohdear:

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
#263 - 2012-12-12 20:37:16 UTC
I feel the need to contribute

"MINES BIGGER"


Attention
Frying Doom
#264 - 2012-12-12 20:45:41 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
For clarification on the many ways carebears affect null players and the threat they pose to ALL of EVE, see the manifestos and themittani.com articles of James 315

I don't hate them, I merely recognize that they must be purged. Nothing personal, I'm just operating under the pretense that carebears are the enemy and must be indiscriminately slaughtered until there are no more left. You guys should be happy you have a competent enemy.

\o/ CAREBEAR HOLOCAUST! (because highsec isn't going to cleanse itself)


So you take one guys dogma and it's the only way to go huh...no real insight for yourself?
Ok, remove all carebears from the game....now what, prices fall to an all time low because many players whom chosen to have their fun playing their way and not live the dogma james 315 spouts not buying any T-2 items or ships prices fall for null materials cause the supply and demand thingy getting in the way and we all know null players PVP only exclusively in T-2 pimp ships, no carebears no more lol from ganking which removes that fun thing to do for people that do that (and don't point to barge buffs) cause the skiff and procurer are the only barges that are tough every thing else is still easily killed for lol.
And prices fall even more for T-1 items because who would buy meta 0 or 1, well industrialist get flushed mostly. Oops lets not forget the trade profession there's that too, and you believe the mittens Romney ground, they broke the winmatar LP with the LP from FW by using a loophole do you understand how much value in isk and LP they got now try being a FW pilot who wants to profit from LP items from FW, how are carebears responsible for that drop, don't believe the dogma spewing from some person or group with an agenda of their own, use your mind to figure out what's really going on.Bear


This is an example of the personality flaw that leads to ...well....EVE General Discussion lol. Galaxy (and people like James) are aobvioulsy screwing with you, but you leap to the conclusion that what they say is gospel truth and thus proof that these other people are "somehow out to get you" because they have "an agenda of their own".

The thinking that leads to this crap is totally self-serving, and unfortunately not confined to video game forums.


No, actually I'm not screwing with them, just being honest. I mentioned the James 315 writing for those who are legitimately curious about how carebears threaten EVE, because James does a pretty good job explaining the feedback-loop theory and highlighting the evidence.

Personally though, I've been dedicated to the genocide of the carebears since long before James 315 outlined a bunch of legitimate reasons to kill them.

I kill them because they are phytoplankton, and I'm a krill, it's the natural order of things. Also, I mean, someone has to shoot them right? They're in EVE and they undocked, so someone should be trying to kill them, I humbly adopt this responsibility.

The one way out is following the code, join the New Order or accept the destruction of your exhumer.

Oh sorry I didn't know you were dedicated to "the genocide of the carebears"

Well off you go there are more carebears in Null than in Hi-sec, consider your job done when the price of Null minerals has gone back up.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#265 - 2012-12-12 20:52:31 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Oh sorry I didn't know you were dedicated to "the genocide of the carebears"

Well off you go there are more carebears in Null than in Hi-sec, consider your job done when the price of Null minerals has gone back up.

Genuine question.

Do you really believe the crap you write? Because that's what it is, crap. And no matter how much crap you write, it will never be anything other than crap.

So I guess I have another question.

Do you think that if you just keep spewing crap that eventually people will believe that your doing something other than spewing crap?
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#266 - 2012-12-12 20:55:16 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
As if EVE's steep learning curve doesn't already discourage new subscribers from sticking around-- some people are worried that high sec is too safe/profitable. A lot of new players start out just tooling around in high sec, trying different things in the sandbox. If they feel overpowered by the older players, and if they can't make decent isk, will they stick around and keep subscribing? No new players, no EVE, you know. Unless the last few bittervets want to pay some 100s of dollars/month for subscriptions. Not game time via PLEX, but real dollars.

New players are introduced and attracted to Eve via marketing campaigns and expansion trailers which depict violence and conflict and massive battles and territorial conquest all driven by the players. They then begin playing and realise that, essentially, the trailers have sold them a lie - like most other players they're shooting NPCs and space rocks protected by an omnipotent police force, and there's little reason to go into the areas of the game where the things that attracted them from the trailer occur because everything they need to succeed and thrive is available within a handful of jumps of the starter system their character first spawned in. So for the most part they mine a few veldspar asteroids until they get bored, and they quit.

Your argument that the status quo of highsec being outright superior to everything else must be preserved, because otherwise newbies will quit in droves is laughable. Nobody is looking to nerf newbie activities in highsec. As a NPC corp newbie in early 2007 I flew around empire aimlessly fitting random collections of civilian mods and T1 to my Ibises and Condors, ran missions over and over that paid out thousands rather than millions of ISK, and tried to mine lowsec omber in my first cormorant (capping myself out every couple of minutes or so) until a local pirate in a rifter mercifully blew me up (twice).

Newbies don't care about whether they're min-maxing their ISK per hour in the most efficient way, they're learning the ropes, training the very basic core skills to II or III, and still figuring out why its a bad idea to fit lasers and a double-layer tank to their Slasher. Newbies aren't grinding Level 4s in deadspace Tengus and Rattlesnakes, they're not 6-boxing Mackinaws with Orca support, and they're not churning out massive T2 ship production runs for Jita. Those activities are carried out by long term veteran characters, frequently alts of 0.0 players, who've long ago done the maths and realised that the risk/reward balance is so hilariously skewed that there's no point jumping through the hoops of 0.0 isk generation when they can run it all in highsec.

All you're doing is regurgitating another Fox News talking point about how anything that damages the ability of the very richest and oldest to play the system risk-free will also somehow Kill Eve Forever.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#267 - 2012-12-12 20:59:16 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:
As if EVE's steep learning curve doesn't already discourage new subscribers from sticking around-- some people are worried that high sec is too safe/profitable. A lot of new players start out just tooling around in high sec, trying different things in the sandbox. If they feel overpowered by the older players, and if they can't make decent isk, will they stick around and keep subscribing? No new players, no EVE, you know. Unless the last few bittervets want to pay some 100s of dollars/month for subscriptions. Not game time via PLEX, but real dollars.

New players are introduced and attracted to Eve via marketing campaigns and expansion trailers which depict violence and conflict and massive battles and territorial conquest all driven by the players. They then begin playing and realise that, essentially, the trailers have sold them a lie - like most other players they're shooting NPCs and space rocks protected by an omnipotent police force, and there's little reason to go into the areas of the game where the things that attracted them from the trailer occur because everything they need to succeed and thrive is available within a handful of jumps of the starter system their character first spawned in. So for the most part they mine a few veldspar asteroids until they get bored, and they quit.

Your argument that the status quo of highsec being outright superior to everything else must be preserved, because otherwise newbies will quit in droves is laughable. Nobody is looking to nerf newbie activities in highsec. As a NPC corp newbie in early 2007 I flew around empire aimlessly fitting random collections of civilian mods and T1 to my Ibises and Condors, ran missions over and over that paid out thousands rather than millions of ISK, and tried to mine lowsec omber in my first cormorant (capping myself out every couple of minutes or so) until a local pirate in a rifter mercifully blew me up (twice).

Newbies don't care about whether they're min-maxing their ISK per hour in the most efficient way, they're learning the ropes, training the very basic core skills to II or III, and still figuring out why its a bad idea to fit lasers and a double-layer tank to their Slasher. Newbies aren't grinding Level 4s in deadspace Tengus and Rattlesnakes, they're not 6-boxing Mackinaws with Orca support, and they're not churning out massive T2 ship production runs for Jita. Those activities are carried out by long term veteran characters, frequently alts of 0.0 players, who've long ago done the maths and realised that the risk/reward balance is so hilariously skewed that there's no point jumping through the hoops of 0.0 isk generation when they can run it all in highsec.

All you're doing is regurgitating another Fox News talking point about how anything that damages the ability of the very richest and oldest to play the system risk-free will also somehow Kill Eve Forever.


"Malcanis' Law" was derived from the exact kind of post you're replying to. Self-serving attempts to protect cosy, unbalanced niches in the name of new players.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#268 - 2012-12-12 20:59:49 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Oh sorry I didn't know you were dedicated to "the genocide of the carebears"

Well off you go there are more carebears in Null than in Hi-sec, consider your job done when the price of Null minerals has gone back up.

Genuine question.

Do you really believe the crap you write? Because that's what it is, crap. And no matter how much crap you write, it will never be anything other than crap.

So I guess I have another question.

Do you think that if you just keep spewing crap that eventually people will believe that your doing something other than spewing crap?

Yes yes, the reason why Null sec minerals are worth nothing is because the magical Null fairy puts them there.

Listen to all the whining about afk cloakers and lack of industry from Null sec and then tell me the place is not full of carebears.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#269 - 2012-12-12 21:07:42 UTC
Also, don't give me that "no miners no minerals" crap. You see, I operate under a personal directive to purge the Galaxy of all carebears. Also Gallente, but that's a different forum. Anyway, did I say I actually expect to achieve these things? No, but I'm going to try my damnedest, and I have to admit I would be pretty proud of myself if you actually let us "purge the galaxy of your kind", and that is exactly why such a thing ever actually would happen, because the carebears let us, and never stood up for themselves.

In conclusion, DEATH TO CAREBEARS! Also, DEATH TO GALLENTE!
(Gallente miners especially.)

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#270 - 2012-12-12 21:11:56 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
"Malcanis' Law" was derived from the exact kind of post you're replying to. Self-serving attempts to protect cosy, unbalanced niches in the name of new players.

This example is more 'preserve the status quo to protect THE NEWBIES (and benefit me)' rather than 'Change the status quo to protect THE NEWBIES (and benefit me)', but essentially yes.

You need to put Malcanis' Law back in your sig btw.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#271 - 2012-12-12 21:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Frying Doom wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Oh sorry I didn't know you were dedicated to "the genocide of the carebears"

Well off you go there are more carebears in Null than in Hi-sec, consider your job done when the price of Null minerals has gone back up.

Genuine question.

Do you really believe the crap you write? Because that's what it is, crap. And no matter how much crap you write, it will never be anything other than crap.

So I guess I have another question.

Do you think that if you just keep spewing crap that eventually people will believe that your doing something other than spewing crap?

Yes yes, the reason why Null sec minerals are worth nothing is because the magical Null fairy puts them there.

Listen to all the whining about afk cloakers and lack of industry from Null sec and then tell me the place is not full of carebears.

Aren't you the guy that said high sec players make far, far less isk than everyone else, and had to put out more effort at the same time?

I feel like I deserve a better troll to be honest.

Edit: meant to say better "class" of troll.
Frying Doom
#272 - 2012-12-12 21:15:05 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Also, don't give me that "no miners no minerals" crap. You see, I operate under a personal directive to purge the Galaxy of all carebears. Also Gallente, but that's a different forum. Anyway, did I say I actually expect to achieve these things? No, but I'm going to try my damnedest, and I have to admit I would be pretty proud of myself if you actually let us "purge the galaxy of your kind", and that is exactly why such a thing ever actually would happen, because the carebears let us, and never stood up for themselves.

In conclusion, DEATH TO CAREBEARS! Also, DEATH TO GALLENTE!
(Gallente miners especially.)

Oh look I am Gallente and I mine. You better come hunt me down... No I am not in hi-sec so you need to stop hiding behind concord protection and come out and find me.

You could start off easy by looking in lo-sec

Oh sorry I forgot, you like to hide behind the protection of concord so you dont get ganked and have to actually be involved in PvP.

So here is an idea put a mirror next to your computer, that way everytime you undock you can point at the mirror and yell "Carebear" and self destruct so your genocide of carebears racks up some good numbers.

Or you can leave the Hi-sec Cowards Association and do some real PvP, rather than trying to justify hiding behind concord while accusing others of hiding behind concord.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#273 - 2012-12-12 21:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Oh sorry I didn't know you were dedicated to "the genocide of the carebears"

Well off you go there are more carebears in Null than in Hi-sec, consider your job done when the price of Null minerals has gone back up.

Genuine question.

Do you really believe the crap you write? Because that's what it is, crap. And no matter how much crap you write, it will never be anything other than crap.

So I guess I have another question.

Do you think that if you just keep spewing crap that eventually people will believe that your doing something other than spewing crap?

Yes yes, the reason why Null sec minerals are worth nothing is because the magical Null fairy puts them there.

Listen to all the whining about afk cloakers and lack of industry from Null sec and then tell me the place is not full of carebears.

Aren't you the guy that said high sec players make far, far less isk than everyone else, and had to put out more effort at the same time?

I feel like I deserve a better troll to be honest.

Its not my fault you are not getting your fat welfare check each month from your corporation. If you don't think you are getting enough you need to bug them, not the forums.

As you did and edit so will I

Edit: I am sorry but all of our better trolls are currently attending to other posts, if you would just like to hold the line, they will be with you shortly. In the mean time here is some really annoying music. Smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#274 - 2012-12-12 21:17:00 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Also, don't give me that "no miners no minerals" crap. You see, I operate under a personal directive to purge the Galaxy of all carebears. Also Gallente, but that's a different forum. Anyway, did I say I actually expect to achieve these things? No, but I'm going to try my damnedest, and I have to admit I would be pretty proud of myself if you actually let us "purge the galaxy of your kind", and that is exactly why such a thing ever actually would happen, because the carebears let us, and never stood up for themselves.

In conclusion, DEATH TO CAREBEARS! Also, DEATH TO GALLENTE!
(Gallente miners especially.)

Oh look I am Gallente and I mine. You better come hunt me down... No I am not in hi-sec so you need to stop hiding behind concord protection and come out and find me.

You could start off easy by looking in lo-sec

Oh sorry I forgot, you like to hide behind the protection of concord so you dont get ganked and have to actually be involved in PvP.

So here is an idea put a mirror next to your computer, that way everytime you undock you can point at the mirror and yell "Carebear" and self destruct so your genocide of carebears racks up some good numbers.

Or you can leave the Hi-sec Cowards Association and do some real PvP, rather than trying to justify hiding behind concord while accusing others of hiding behind concord.


Obviously, ganking in high sec affords you CONCORD protection.

I don't believe for a minute you play anyplace other than high sec.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#275 - 2012-12-12 21:17:55 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Yes, they don't say they want to force highseccers playstyle, they just say they want to take away L3 and L4 missions, make refining inferior, remove manufacturing slots or make them much more expensive...


And not a single one of those things prevent you from running missions, refining ores, or building products in stations.


Yes, it "just" makes it pointless.

If by "playstyle" you mean 'no risk, no effort, no activity, no thought, no limitation, all reward', then yes, that activity negatively impacts the wider economy and skews game balance, and changes should be introduced, but 'making easy money' isn't a playstyle.

Of course, that will bring us to our next Fox News talking point, that 'highsec is actually the most dangerous space' with snide references to 'nullbears' and 'blue lists'.


I asked some posts ago, in your opinion what would be exactly the ISK per hour you'd kindly allow those dirty hi sec worms to make so you feel "right". 3M per hour?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#276 - 2012-12-12 21:18:43 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Oh sorry I didn't know you were dedicated to "the genocide of the carebears"

Well off you go there are more carebears in Null than in Hi-sec, consider your job done when the price of Null minerals has gone back up.

Genuine question.

Do you really believe the crap you write? Because that's what it is, crap. And no matter how much crap you write, it will never be anything other than crap.

So I guess I have another question.

Do you think that if you just keep spewing crap that eventually people will believe that your doing something other than spewing crap?

Yes yes, the reason why Null sec minerals are worth nothing is because the magical Null fairy puts them there.

Listen to all the whining about afk cloakers and lack of industry from Null sec and then tell me the place is not full of carebears.

Aren't you the guy that said high sec players make far, far less isk than everyone else, and had to put out more effort at the same time?

I feel like I deserve a better troll to be honest.

Its not my fault you are not getting your fat welfare check each month from your corporation. If you don't think you are getting enough you need to bug them, not the forums.

Why should they give me one?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#277 - 2012-12-12 21:23:02 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


I asked some posts ago, in your opinion what would be exactly the ISK per hour you'd kindly allow those dirty hi sec worms to make so you feel "right". 3M per hour?

You're still doing this?

I guess when I personally answered you with, "You and I both know it's not that simple" it wasn't good enogh for you?

Because you know full well it's not that simple.


You tell us then.

What is an appropriate isk diffence in an area with CONCORD protection and one where players are required to create protection? If you expect others to give you an impossible answer you should be able to do so yourself.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#278 - 2012-12-12 21:24:56 UTC
I still don't understand why some people think a 'buff' here instead of a 'nerf' there is different? Referring to risk and reward that is.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#279 - 2012-12-12 21:27:31 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Also, don't give me that "no miners no minerals" crap. You see, I operate under a personal directive to purge the Galaxy of all carebears. Also Gallente, but that's a different forum. Anyway, did I say I actually expect to achieve these things? No, but I'm going to try my damnedest, and I have to admit I would be pretty proud of myself if you actually let us "purge the galaxy of your kind", and that is exactly why such a thing ever actually would happen, because the carebears let us, and never stood up for themselves.

In conclusion, DEATH TO CAREBEARS! Also, DEATH TO GALLENTE!
(Gallente miners especially.)

Oh look I am Gallente and I mine. You better come hunt me down... No I am not in hi-sec so you need to stop hiding behind concord protection and come out and find me.

You could start off easy by looking in lo-sec

Oh sorry I forgot, you like to hide behind the protection of concord so you dont get ganked and have to actually be involved in PvP.

So here is an idea put a mirror next to your computer, that way everytime you undock you can point at the mirror and yell "Carebear" and self destruct so your genocide of carebears racks up some good numbers.

Or you can leave the Hi-sec Cowards Association and do some real PvP, rather than trying to justify hiding behind concord while accusing others of hiding behind concord.


Obviously, ganking in high sec affords you CONCORD protection.

I don't believe for a minute you play anyplace other than high sec.


Haha, man it is conclusive. He gets waaaaaaaayyy too mad about this stuff to be anything but a 0.7 space 7-mackinaw runnin' hyper-defensive alpha-carebear. Frying Doom dude, go back to WoW...

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#280 - 2012-12-12 21:27:58 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I still don't understand why some people think a 'buff' here instead of a 'nerf' there is different? Referring to risk and reward that is.

I don't undersand why people get so wrapped up in risk vs reward in a game where risk is supposed to be assumed by EVERYONE, but effort is not.