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What are the necessary 5's?
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2012-12-25 02:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
you're stuck on multitasking V. love it.

HMMM http://i.imgur.com/6NoQe.jpg <-but there's no way *that* could be useful, nopenopenope

it's a rank 3, guy. why not

Riedle wrote:
Thanks fellas.

Riedle


pfft

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#42 - 2012-12-25 22:06:28 UTC
Riedle wrote:
Thanks fellas.

There is no requirement for logi's to be able to target 10 ships other than multitasking 3.

So a logi pilot, like myself, would call BS to multi-tasking V being needed.

Again, another case of following the certificates to the detriment of common sense.

Riedle

Well having missed a few comments since I posted my Multi V comment I guess I should clarify. For incursions in fleets that consist of 12 pilots multitasking IV and a sig amp allow a Pro Logi to keep all fleet members locked and alive. less than that the Logi pilot is relegated to public fleets. For Incursion Assaults 20 man fleets two Pro logistics can maintain Locks for Links as well as continuous reps available.

In blobs I have found that 12 targets locked gave me the advantage of instantly sending reps to ships before armor damage many times.

In the recent tournaments I was able to run a solo Scimi with T1 rigs (tourney rules) and kept 3 e-war frigs alive even though they were primaried by Two Kronos's. eventually lost everything but me in the Scimi :(

So yes I think Multitasking 5 is a good skill, but I would set engineering skills at the top followed by shield and armor compensation, and of course the only guns in EVE I like to use are T2 anything else is a waste of skill points.

And of course if you want to fly a ship better than most train that ships particular skill to 5, for instance my Sleipnir at Command ship V was 1000dps guns, 2500dps tank, monster that I love to fly.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Max Skillz
#43 - 2012-12-25 23:45:59 UTC
Sorry if I missed someone else say it....

But I'm surprised I haven't read about CYBERNETICS V. The +5 is an absolute MUST in my opinion for anyone looking to stay in their toon for the long haul. Not too mention the 5/6% bonus implants they open up for min/maxing.

If I start an alt, it'd be Cybernetics to V immediately. My entire post is especially true if you're living in high sec with limited risk to losing your clones.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#44 - 2012-12-25 23:51:17 UTC
Max Skillz wrote:
Sorry if I missed someone else say it....

But I'm surprised I haven't read about CYBERNETICS V. The +5 is an absolute MUST in my opinion for anyone looking to stay in their toon for the long haul. Not too mention the 5/6% bonus implants they open up for min/maxing.

If I start an alt, it'd be Cybernetics to V immediately. My entire post is especially true if you're living in high sec with limited risk to losing your clones.

+1 and then some, get those +5 augs in to make the skills go by as fast as possible. But dont fly in them if you can't afford to lose them, possibly get a clone for the really risky stuff.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2012-12-26 14:19:02 UTC
goldiiee wrote:
Riedle wrote:
Thanks fellas.

There is no requirement for logi's to be able to target 10 ships other than multitasking 3.

So a logi pilot, like myself, would call BS to multi-tasking V being needed.

Again, another case of following the certificates to the detriment of common sense.

Riedle

Well having missed a few comments since I posted my Multi V comment I guess I should clarify. For incursions in fleets that consist of 12 pilots multitasking IV and a sig amp allow a Pro Logi to keep all fleet members locked and alive. less than that the Logi pilot is relegated to public fleets. For Incursion Assaults 20 man fleets two Pro logistics can maintain Locks for Links as well as continuous reps available.

In blobs I have found that 12 targets locked gave me the advantage of instantly sending reps to ships before armor damage many times.

In the recent tournaments I was able to run a solo Scimi with T1 rigs (tourney rules) and kept 3 e-war frigs alive even though they were primaried by Two Kronos's. eventually lost everything but me in the Scimi :(

So yes I think Multitasking 5 is a good skill, but I would set engineering skills at the top followed by shield and armor compensation, and of course the only guns in EVE I like to use are T2 anything else is a waste of skill points.

And of course if you want to fly a ship better than most train that ships particular skill to 5, for instance my Sleipnir at Command ship V was 1000dps guns, 2500dps tank, monster that I love to fly.


only regret is that i have but one like to give

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Demolishar
United Aggression
#46 - 2012-12-26 17:23:04 UTC
Honestly it's more a question of what you should NOT take to 5.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2012-12-27 01:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Marr Aridia
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-12-27 07:06:58 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
anything you do or fly more than once a week should be at 5.
This includes ship skills, offensive skills, tank skills, support skills, any other skills you use.


Pretty much this.
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Reiisha
#49 - 2013-01-02 11:11:58 UTC
Get all the Core Competency elite certificates. Those are useful no matter what ship you fly.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#50 - 2013-01-03 04:02:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Super spikinator
When I started out you wanted to get your learning skills to V first since the +5 to attributes was that important (the charisma on was 50/50 really though, some people never leveled it). Cibernetics should be at whatever level you can afford to plug in, though level II I would consider mandatory since +2s are easy to come by. Mining V was important since you could use this to dodge hauling duty and it helped out with solo mining if you were doing a bit (when destroyers were first released I remember using the cormorant as a mining boat since it could fit 5 or so Mining laser IIs, the second best mining laser at the time).

There are plenty mentioned in this thread but I would also say the entire Navigation, sans Jump Drive skills should be a medium term goal of any pilot. Everything in there is very very useful to everybody. Even if you are going to be non-combative these skills will help out. You will align faster, you will be able to warp longer and have more capacitor post warp, your ab/micro will use up less capacitor and give you more speed so you can break through camps if need be.

Demolishar wrote:
Honestly it's more a question of what you should NOT take to 5.


It's a very short list. There are, of course, skills that are very very niche but I believe that Tatical Shield Manipulation is the example of a main skill that should never be leveled to V. You need IV to get tech II Invulnerability Fields but the 5% chance extra of bleed is of more benefit to a shield tanker, despite it sounding silly. This is because you want your shield to be sitting at or near 25% for the optimal recharge and a small bleed will allow you to keep it near that.

edit:changed Shield Booster for Invulnerability Field since Field is correct and I haven't shield tanked in a while :(
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#51 - 2013-01-03 14:03:27 UTC
Super spikinator wrote:


Demolishar wrote:
Honestly it's more a question of what you should NOT take to 5.


It's a very short list. There are, of course, skills that are very very niche but I believe that Tatical Shield Manipulation is the example of a main skill that should never be leveled to V. You need IV to get tech II Invulnerability Fields but the 5% chance extra of bleed is of more benefit to a shield tanker, despite it sounding silly. This is because you want your shield to be sitting at or near 25% for the optimal recharge and a small bleed will allow you to keep it near that.

edit:changed Shield Booster for Invulnerability Field since Field is correct and I haven't shield tanked in a while :(


If I understand correctly adjusting and placing orders is capped by the region range, so the difference between level IV (20 jumps) and V (Region) range for the Trade based skills seem a bit overkill since 20 jumps covers most of the region.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#52 - 2013-01-08 03:38:15 UTC
Any ship skill that you use on a regular basis, with the possible exception of battleships

The core competency skills

Weapon Upgrades.

Enough 5's to get the weapons you prefer in T2.

That's about it for "must", and even those are negotiable if you're doing something like station trading all the time.

... fives are still useful in general, just not strictly speaking necessary unless you've got a specific fit or play you're going for.
Kimimaro Yoga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-01-08 18:04:53 UTC
Aaah, the badposting it hurts...
Very few skills are actually *must haves* at 5.
Jump Drive Calibration 5: How far you can travel per jump determines how many cynos you need to get someplace. The one guy who can't use the same cyno chain as everyone else, gets asked to fly a subcap instead.

Logistics 5: If you don't have this, you either can't repair at full output, or gimp your tank by using cap recharge fittings. Either way you're significantly underperforming.

Recon 5: Really helps with fitting, and for tacklers it puts your range out past the range at which many enemy DPS ships can hit you. If you're the one guy who has to fly closer to tackle, expect to die a lot.

SHip Command and Evasive Maneuvering 5: Must-have if you're flying battleships, as those need help with maeuverability. Not must-have if you normally fly small ships. Similarly cap skills to 5 if you are cap-limited, don't want to die because you ran out of cap.

Also, things that are prerequisites. Gunnery 5 for large guns, weapon upgrades 5 so you can get advanced weapon upgrades (which is a must-have for many ship fits, although you don't need Advanced to 5 if you mostly use T1 guns). Engineering 5, also for fittings reasons (although I'd argue that many shipfits get by without electronics 5).

Everything else? Not a must-have. Period. Elite certs are garbage, pick your skills based on what you actually need. Multitasking over 3, useless other than specialized situations (and how often are you flying in exactly 13-ship fleets?). Here, try this... use pyfa or eft to setup a high-end shipfit, say a Machariel fit for incursions. Set just the minimum skills necessary to 5 for prereqs, and set everything else to 4. Look through the stats. Then switch to the "all 5" skill preset, and see how big the difference is. Yes, it's there, no, it's not so big that you can't use the ship with most stats at 4.

At that point you are out of the must-haves, and into the "what would I get benefit from?". Logi pilot doesn't need rapid firing 5, frigate tackler doesn't need MWD 5, etc. In a game where it takes years to get "everything you use" to 5, some are way less useful than others.

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