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So you're afraid of being ganked... But should you be?

First post
Author
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#1 - 2012-12-11 04:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
... Especially with this new bounty system! What does it all mean?

Well, after having repeatedly done too many ganking-risk calculations, and explaining over why you will be fine mining in your Mackinaw, or why your newbie missioning ship won't get blapped because of the jerk who put a bounty on you, or... you get the gist.

I have had a couple of posts on how bounties work, but I wanted something more definitive to be able to just throw at people for them to solve their own problems, or to give them a feel for if what they're doing is risky and stupid.

So, I present to you, the Ganking Risk Estimation Tool! Give it your ship/module/cargo's worth, your bounty, your hit points, and about how long before CONCORD shows up, and it will tell you about your chances of dying a fiery death at the hands of gankers.

It works for tons of stuff, like:


Hope you find this useful! Also, that it will reduce the number of "my hisec is so unsafe" complaints. Enjoy!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#2 - 2012-12-11 04:58:23 UTC
Bounty system isn't going to factor a gank. The criminal retribution system won't either. They are cosmetic and not really game impacting.

Nobody is afraid of ganking any more than they are afraid of PvP. That's foolish forum talk. If it gets out of control and in cases it has, people will just stop doing things. HS will become like Null. People will just stop doing things.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#3 - 2012-12-11 05:01:48 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Bounty system isn't going to factor a gank. The criminal retribution system won't either. They are cosmetic and not really game impacting.

Nobody is afraid of ganking any more than they are afraid of PvP. That's foolish forum talk. If it gets out of control and in cases it has, people will just stop doing things. HS will become like Null. People will just stop doing things.

A bountied exhumer pays out 30-40 mil ISK more than an un-bountied one. Considering that pays for 8-10 destroyers, that is a very good reason to care about it affecting ganking. Saying that it doesn't affect ganks is naive and not looking at the numbers.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#4 - 2012-12-11 05:12:02 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Bounty system isn't going to factor a gank. The criminal retribution system won't either. They are cosmetic and not really game impacting.

Nobody is afraid of ganking any more than they are afraid of PvP. That's foolish forum talk. If it gets out of control and in cases it has, people will just stop doing things. HS will become like Null. People will just stop doing things.

A bountied exhumer pays out 30-40 mil ISK more than an un-bountied one. Considering that pays for 8-10 destroyers, that is a very good reason to care about it affecting ganking. Saying that it doesn't affect ganks is naive and not looking at the numbers.


Have you looked at the ret role bonuses? They are the same as the Macki. Start ganking Macki's nobody will fly them. No need to worry about Hulks. They didn't get a role bonus. Nobody flies them anyway. Skiff are sitting on 90K EHP. You won't kill them if they are in a .7 system. Concord will just keep shutting you down. Feel free to try though.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#5 - 2012-12-11 05:17:40 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Have you looked at the ret role bonuses? They are the same as the Macki. Start ganking Macki's nobody will fly them. No need to worry about Hulks. They didn't get a role bonus. Nobody flies them anyway. Skiff are sitting on 90K EHP. You won't kill them if they are in a .7 system. Concord will just keep shutting you down. Feel free to try though.

A group of determined gankers could still kill a Skiff for under its cost, albeit not at a profit. Note the Thrasher entry.

Regardless, that is not the point here. The point is "you don't have to do a whole page of calculations to figure out if you're asking to get blown up or not", which is a difficulty that a large number of people on the forums are having. Please stop trying to turn this into a "you're going down, miners!" thing. It's not.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#6 - 2012-12-11 05:25:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Have you looked at the ret role bonuses? They are the same as the Macki. Start ganking Macki's nobody will fly them. No need to worry about Hulks. They didn't get a role bonus. Nobody flies them anyway. Skiff are sitting on 90K EHP. You won't kill them if they are in a .7 system. Concord will just keep shutting you down. Feel free to try though.

A group of determined gankers could still kill a Skiff for under its cost, albeit not at a profit. Note the Thrasher entry.

Regardless, that is not the point here. The point is "you don't have to do a whole page of calculations to figure out if you're asking to get blown up or not", which is a difficulty that a large number of people on the forums are having. Please stop trying to turn this into a "you're going down, miners!" thing. It's not.


My point was simple. Bounties and Retribution won't influence how gankers act. You turned it in to an EFT war. EVE has always been tankless and alpha ganking people was always profitable. Now it is a little more profitable? In time, someone will figure out how to get bounties added to the kill mail. Then it will be a factor in the number of ganks.

- Not trying to grief your thread.

Hope people find it useful.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-12-11 05:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Some Rando
Thank you Petrus, you have confirmed that my Maller is not a profitable gank, even with a sizable bounty on my head.

E: Also, isn't insurance counted into the bounty calculation somehow? Anyway, fun toy you made.

CCP has no sense of humour.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#8 - 2012-12-11 05:33:12 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Thank you Petrus, you have confirmed that my Maller is not a profitable gank, even with a sizable bounty on my head.

You're welcome. Bounty payout should be pretty low on a Maller, even if it's relatively expensively fit.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#9 - 2012-12-11 05:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Some Rando wrote:

E: Also, isn't insurance counted into the bounty calculation somehow? Anyway, fun toy you made.

Hmm... Forgot about that. Will include it now. Ed: Done. 40% insurance is applied to all ship values now. (Not coding in T1/T2/Faction differences because I'm lazy)

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#10 - 2012-12-11 07:03:01 UTC
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#11 - 2012-12-11 07:11:31 UTC

Ah don't worry, Bat Country will make great use of your work as it helps us a great deal. Also you provided a nice flow chart to boot and as everyone knows, we EVE players just love our charts, graphs and numbers.
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-12-11 07:26:11 UTC
Forum Rules wrote:


24. Off-topic posting is not allowed.

Off-topic posts are not prohibited but should be posted within reason. Excessive off-topic posts that derail a thread may result in the thread being locked.




Posts cleared from this thread for breaching above rule. Please remain on topic - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-12-11 07:33:24 UTC
Nice one, Petrus. +1 Space points
Serptimis
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-12-11 10:13:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Ah don't worry, Bat Country will make great use of your work as it helps us a great deal. Also you provided a nice flow chart to boot and as everyone knows, we EVE players just love our charts, graphs and numbers.

Ha! yes, you've made a very useful tool for gankers to work out profitability there, nice one you griefer Blink
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#15 - 2012-12-11 10:58:16 UTC


Don't worry, it could go worse and you could get banned for having created an helpful thread.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#16 - 2012-12-11 10:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Serptimis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Ah don't worry, Bat Country will make great use of your work as it helps us a great deal. Also you provided a nice flow chart to boot and as everyone knows, we EVE players just love our charts, graphs and numbers.

Ha! yes, you've made a very useful tool for gankers to work out profitability there, nice one you griefer Blink


It's not like the creators of some of the most complete tools and books about EvE mechanics could not have created it themselves anyway Roll.


baltec1 wrote:

Ah don't worry, Bat Country will make great use of your work as it helps us a great deal. Also you provided a nice flow chart to boot and as everyone knows, we EVE players just love our charts, graphs and numbers.


So, I suppose next Hulkageddon will be "pre-paid" by bountying ships with a value covering dessy costs + a tip? That would streamline it a lot over having to prove the kill, ask GS the ISK and so on.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-12-11 12:45:04 UTC
Thanks for this tool! It's vindicated my decision to liquidate my freighter after somebody put a billion ISK bounty on me. I made a 600 million ISK net profit overall!

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-12-11 12:49:05 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I made a 600 million ISK net profit overall!


What now?

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-12-11 12:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
it was an old freighter, from the days when they only cost 900 million. It has served well, but the choice was to either let it sit mothballed in my hangar until I work off a billion ISK bounty (which will take a while, I'm a highsec industrialist) or keep using it and probably wind up getting ganked.

All in all, I feel the decision to sell it at a profit has been vindicated

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Gladius Codicis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-12-11 15:47:07 UTC
You are missing the most cost-effective ganking ship: the T1 Catalyst. The cost is 2-4m isk (depending on meta level of fittings) to get from 300-450 DPS (depending on skills). Even a 4-day alt, as I am, can get 350 DPS on a Cat which costs 2.6m. Two of these can gank an untanked retriever in 0.7 sec. If it has T2 mining gear, this is cost neutral at least.

Your tool also cannot account for non-financial motives to gank. There is nothing you can do about that within the paradigm of homo economicus. But here's a hint to rebel miners: you are not safe even you fly the cheapest and crappiest retriever.

Your tool should have a checkbox labelled, "Are you mining anywhere in highsec without a New Order mining permit?" Anyone who checks that checkbox faces a substantial risk of gank.
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