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Do assault ships need rebalancing?

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Tusko Hopkins
Puritans
#21 - 2011-10-06 11:04:09 UTC
Jennifer Starling wrote:
Well what are we talking about, re-balancing among each other (like a lot of t1 ships could use as well) or rebalancing compared to other ships like the Dramiel or Daredevil and other ships that can more or less fulfil the same role?


Rebalancing assault frigs in general. While it's great that CCP finally got to restart balancing ships, I was surprised to see assault ships explicitly noted there. If I had to name a sub capital ship class that needs balancing the most, it would not have been the assault frig. It's also possible that this was a specific example but they are indeed looking into balancing everything else as well.
Lord Helghast
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-10-06 12:03:24 UTC
The fact that people pick Slicers and Dramiels and DareDevils over T2 ASSAULT SHIPS, is why assault ships are BROKEN...

Faction variants are supposed to be in special cases better, but the fact is a t2 ship is always supposed to be better than the faction variations.

As it stands the reason no one flys AFs is they are broken, COMPLETELY, there supposed to be t2 monster frigates that can chew through enemys....

As it stands faction ships have the dps and speed, interceptors have speed... and assault frigates have nothing, there basically just slightly bumped up t1 versions and some of them not even that.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#23 - 2011-10-06 12:12:46 UTC
AFs should essentially BE bumped up versions of T1 ships... Where the other T2 frigs are sooperspecial expert use systems(advanced tacklers, advanced ewar, advanced.. uh... bombing) AFs are supposed to fill the same generalist roles a T1 frigate does, but much better.

Kinda hard to balance that without making the specialist ships obsolete Cool

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Silet'kaa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#24 - 2011-10-06 12:17:16 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
AFs should essentially BE bumped up versions of T1 ships... Where the other T2 frigs are sooperspecial expert use systems(advanced tacklers, advanced ewar, advanced.. uh... bombing) AFs are supposed to fill the same generalist roles a T1 frigate does, but much better.

Kinda hard to balance that without making the specialist ships obsolete Cool


If they're supposed to be souped up generalist frigs, why not make their 4th bonus be them being T3 Frigs? I can't think of any other way to make them more generalist and souped up than that.

Love is a Covert Cyno. Death to All Supers!!
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-10-06 12:22:39 UTC
4th bonus is definitely needed, otherwise they really just need a pass. A sweep of the module layouts, and such. Should not be a major overhaul by any means.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#26 - 2011-10-06 12:27:44 UTC
Silet'kaa wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
AFs should essentially BE bumped up versions of T1 ships... Where the other T2 frigs are sooperspecial expert use systems(advanced tacklers, advanced ewar, advanced.. uh... bombing) AFs are supposed to fill the same generalist roles a T1 frigate does, but much better.

Kinda hard to balance that without making the specialist ships obsolete Cool


If they're supposed to be souped up generalist frigs, why not make their 4th bonus be them being T3 Frigs? I can't think of any other way to make them more generalist and souped up than that.

That would knock out 2 birds with one stone... no more Fix AF whiners, and no more where are the T3 frigs whiners.

I like it! Lol

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#27 - 2011-10-06 12:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Alxea
Tusko Hopkins wrote:
First of all, I welcome the new dev blog by CCP Zulu. It's great and the promises to actively fix a lot of broken game mechanics and content are superb, I really hope CCP keeps up on its promise to deliver.

There was one bullet point in the planned changes for the winter expansion that raised my eyebrows a little and it was the one about assault ships.

I was wondering: do they really need to be changed? Alright, they are not the most potent ships in EVE but in their own class (frigs) they are doing kind of okay. The key problem with them is most people are flying larger ships assault frigs cannot easily kill... and maybe they are a bit slow. But I still think they are kinda okay, especially when compared to other completely neglected classes like the ew frigs, tier 1 battlecruisers or black ops.


They are missing a 4th bonus like every other T2 ship has but them. Pirate faction boats have 3 bonuses. AF's are not pirate faction but are T2. Makes no sense and this is what they are going to fix. Just debating on what bonuses to give them. I think they need a DPS or tank bonus because they are just too fragile compared with crusiers. 10k EHP is not a lot when a T1 crusier can get 30 to +100k ehp. Maller! AF's should assault things not insta pop to a arty BS. Roll
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#28 - 2011-10-06 12:47:39 UTC
Silet'kaa wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
AFs should essentially BE bumped up versions of T1 ships... Where the other T2 frigs are sooperspecial expert use systems(advanced tacklers, advanced ewar, advanced.. uh... bombing) AFs are supposed to fill the same generalist roles a T1 frigate does, but much better.

Kinda hard to balance that without making the specialist ships obsolete Cool


If they're supposed to be souped up generalist frigs, why not make their 4th bonus be them being T3 Frigs? I can't think of any other way to make them more generalist and souped up than that.



I see what you did there

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#29 - 2011-10-06 12:54:28 UTC
Silet'kaa wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
AFs should essentially BE bumped up versions of T1 ships... Where the other T2 frigs are sooperspecial expert use systems(advanced tacklers, advanced ewar, advanced.. uh... bombing) AFs are supposed to fill the same generalist roles a T1 frigate does, but much better.

Kinda hard to balance that without making the specialist ships obsolete Cool


If they're supposed to be souped up generalist frigs, why not make their 4th bonus be them being T3 Frigs? I can't think of any other way to make them more generalist and souped up than that.


T3 frigates would have near 10 bonuses just like T3 crusiers depending on subs used.
Commander Spurty
#30 - 2011-10-06 13:01:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Spurty
4th bonus 20% speed increase per level to after burner

Across all afs

even noob ships have better slot layout

Oh and make fitting MSE unique to this frigate class

All others SSE at best

This role is Supposed to be in harms way. That is it's role!

Interceptors have speed and sig radius

Pirate faction are supposed to snub their noses at typical roles, so leeway here is fine.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#31 - 2011-10-06 13:06:02 UTC
Spurty wrote:
4th bonus 20% speed increase per level to after burner

Across all afs

even noob ships have better slot layout

Oh and make fitting MSE unique to this frigate class

All others SSE at best

This role is Supposed to be in harms way. That is it's role!

Interceptors have speed and sig radius

Pirate faction are supposed to snub their noses at typical roles, so leeway here is fine.


I agree with this bonus.
Iohet Nolafew
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-10-06 14:12:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Iohet Nolafew
Tallian Saotome wrote:
AFs should essentially BE bumped up versions of T1 ships... Where the other T2 frigs are sooperspecial expert use systems(advanced tacklers, advanced ewar, advanced.. uh... bombing) AFs are supposed to fill the same generalist roles a T1 frigate does, but much better.

Kinda hard to balance that without making the specialist ships obsolete Cool



AF's are too expensive for what they are already. 3x+ the cost of a ceptor(and much much more than a T1 frig) for a much smaller proportion of benefit in offense and defense. Balance could simply be halving the cost. I'd be happy enough with that
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#33 - 2011-10-06 14:24:09 UTC

We fly AF's all the time with my crew. they're solid and great fun ships. They're not underpowered or weak.


The main problem with AF's is they should be good "skirmish fighters" amongst the bigger ships in bigger battles.

Meaning, that they can survive in large fleet battles as little "x-wings" moving around and being able to do some damage, or perform other action for effect in the middle of it all.


Currently, they get webbed and die. Most people have proposed a Role Bonus to AB speed to get their speed up slightly higher in order to help them survive in such scenarios to overcome webbing and tracking.

It won't be easy, but at least you're not a sitting target.


Where I am.
Aineko Macx
#34 - 2011-10-06 14:29:08 UTC
Ciar Meara wrote:
4 th bonus
Retribution.

This, and roflkets.

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Cozmik R5
Chez Stan
#35 - 2011-10-06 14:40:13 UTC
4th bonus, Retribution fix and rocket fix are obvious. If you work at CCP and don't see this please get yourself fired (this includes the brass).

The over-buffing of the Faction frigates sounded the death knell for Assault Frigs, and as a frig lover I hope and pray that the AF fix is done right, once and for all.

Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
Holy One
Privat Party
#36 - 2011-10-06 14:41:57 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Amarr needs it the most. They have no role. One of them has only one mid slot. and the other has tickle DPS.


This man speaks the truth.

:)
Othran
Route One
#37 - 2011-10-06 14:47:20 UTC
Aineko Macx wrote:
Ciar Meara wrote:
4 th bonus
Retribution.

This, and roflkets.


Rockets don't need attention - they got a buff recently. As you obviously missed it then here you go :

Rockets have been given a power up with a focus on making them more effective against frigate sized ships. They gain a bonus to explosion velocity and damage whilst getting a slightly reduced rate of fire.

They work fine.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#38 - 2011-10-06 14:55:04 UTC
25% AB speed bonus coupled with a couple individual rebalances will be more than sufficient. Many AF's are decent and the ship power progression goes t1 -> navy -> t2 -> pirate faction anyway. As it is there are already several AF's I would take over the dram or DD in a variety of situations.
Othran
Route One
#39 - 2011-10-06 14:59:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
I know the speed bonus is popular but I still don't think its a good idea.

FS - 125% bonus at L5? That would mean a Jag doing 2.6km/sec on an afterburner without speed mods fitted.

Sorry but that's completely stupid - the main problem with the Dramiel (which is getting nerfed on speed) is that it can outrun most mwding cruisers on AB and you want to create another 8 ships that can do the same?

Lunacy, complete lunacy.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#40 - 2011-10-06 15:02:01 UTC
I'd like to see an AB bonus on the Assault ships, yes. But of the T2 frigates it is the Electronic Attack Ships that really needs a look. They are the least flown ships in New Eden, for good reason: They dont have any viable defence.

They cant speed/sig tank like interceptors. They cant buffer/active tank like assault frigates. They cant cloak/range tank like stealth bombers. And they can be ******* annoying if left alone, so they will always be primaried. Complete the picture with a pricetag above 20 mill and you have a recipie for a perfectly useless shipclass.