Missions & Complexes

I've replied to a few threads on this board, but I figured that I would headline one myself to give some depth to the viewpoint of a newbie player who is now dealing with the recent mission NPC AI and tactics changes. This post is unapologetically long, but is intended more as feedback to the EVE development team than an open discussion -- though I certainly do encourage discussion if anyone actually reads it.

By "newbie" I am of course speaking of myself: a ~8mil SP pilot who doesn't have the capability to fly Tech 2/3 ships or fit a lot of Tier 2 equipment yet -- and is mostly confined to the ships of a single race. In my case that means I'm flying Minmatar ships with most of my skills at 4/5 except for a few core skills (1x or 2x multipliers) at 5/5 and a few important skills (4x or greater multipliers) at 2/5 or 3/5.

To further perspective: I played EVE for a good bit of 2010 before life got into the way and I had to take a break from gaming. I decided to come back after reading about the Retribution changes. I have a good hanger of Minmatar ships, including a Hurricane and a Maelstrom, but inflation since 2012 has made my 200mil ISK wallet not go anywhere near as far as it did then (when I acquired my Maelstrom for ~90mil ISK); just putting insurance on my Maelstrom cost me 54mil ISK!

When I returned to the game I was near Rens in a Level 4 mission station in High Sec. Running missions seemed like a good way to brush up on rusty skills and pad my wallet, so I accepted a Level 4 one, checked my fit, re-insured my ship, and headed out.

In 2010 I could solo Level 4 missions with difficulty. Being in a Tier 1-fit Maelstrom meant that I needed to understand kill orders and mission triggers, and be ready to warp out of things went sideways. I had learned to manage drones and minimize traversal to land hits. I understood capacitor and shield recharge rate and how to manage both. I still remember this stuff.

None of that helped on warp-in. The entire room aggroed me as soon as I landed from the A-gate, with everything screaming towards its optimal range and throwing a slew of webbing, scramming, and EW at me. Figuring that I had done something wrong with the triggers I aligned to warp out and threw my drones at the scramming Frigs -- only to find them immediately targeted and annihilated by pretty much every ship in the room. A lucky shot at the last scramming Frig (that by all accounts should NOT have landed) allowed me to warp out with <10% armor on a shield-tanked Maelstrom.

What we have here is a "perfect storm" of changes from a newbie perspective:

1. Everything aggros me on warp-in. It may be a bug, but it's a hell of a bug!

2. The increased use of EW devalues my already sub-optimal skills.

3. The aggressive targeting of drones dramatically reduced the effectiveness of a Battleship's primary answer to Frigates.

4. I don't have the DPS to three-shot opposing Battlecruisers and Battleships because I'm in a Tier 1 meta fit.

5. I don't have the skills trained to fly a different race's ships.

6. I'm combat-trained and don't find mining, trading, manufacturing, etc. all that interesting.

My roadmap was to spend the holidays in High Sec building up my bank account and re-learning "how to play" then joining a 0.0 Corp or a mercenary outfit as a combat pilot. However, my primary source of income -- AND FUN -- is no longer available to me. I tried dropping back to Level 3 missions, but not only are they much less rewarding than the Level 4 versions they can actually be just as dangerous.

Furthermore, even after the "Full Aggro" bug is fixed I'm still not sure I will be able to deal with the missions. I understand that the mission AI is designed to better approximate the AI of Sleeper ships, but I've seen Sleeper sites and they aren't swarming with incoming enemies like missions are.

All that kinda kills the fun for me.

It also leaves me with the question of "What do I do now?" I spent the last few days running the newbie Epic Arc for the Sisters, but that's over with now and while it was interesting it didn't really generate much money. I'm not really in a position to contribute to a corporation at the moment (time constraints), and I specifically came back to EVE because I enjoyed running a few missions a day during the week then heading out for some PvP on the weekends to spend the money I made during the week.

Expecting me to do something I don't enjoy is right out. EVE is a game; the activities should be fun. I run missions to finance my PvP because I find both activities enjoyable; expecting me to mine or manufacture -- which I don't enjoy -- so that I can PvP will do nothing but leave you disappointed. I'm not going to participate in a leisure activity that I don't enjoy.

TL;DR:

As a new player I cannot fly missions anymore. This isn't likely to change after the "aggro bug fix".
"ADAPT!" ...How? I have 8mil skill points.
"Fly a different ship!" ...I can't because I have 8mil skill points; I'm pretty much stuck to a single race's Battleships.
"Mine/manufacture/etc." ...I'd rather just not play.

For the record, 8 mil SP is not a newbie, that's roughly 4.5 months of training, probably more, depending on whether or not you burned neural remaps keeping things optimal, or went for a balanced mapping.

A newbie, to me, is someone at 2-4 million SP. And those guys suffer in missions right now even more than you. Especially if they were silly enough to go Gallente. L1-L3 missions, where the bulk of NPCs easily volley drones are NOT fun. And new player lacks skills (both module and fitting skills) to fit a decent tank and EWAR/RR to keep drones safe AND some kind of sensor compensation module (and skills) to avoid being permanently jammed/dampened into oblivion.

When it comes to new players, this latest patch is an absolute nightmare. It's not "arrow to the knee" scenario. What they did was take the world's biggest friggin' sledgehammer, gave it to the Hulk, and told him "go nuts!"

Good points well made.

So when are people allowed to run level 4 according to your standards?

I have about twice as much sps as the OP and was going to grind some ISK in missions to fund some holiday pvp. Not happening.

As for doing it with help, yep... Already done that, the ISK/hour drops since you splitting the rewards and the more players you are the less ISK you get to the point where it is useless.

You're telling the OP to go to level 3s instead, been there and done that too... It's the same ****. You want me doing level 2s with 16M sps?

No thanks. There are other games in the "REAL UNIVERSE" you know, games I can actually enjoy while playing.

I see you cleverly ignored to answer the question when people are allowed to run level 4 missions "by your standards" as you seem to be the authority on the subject.

As for the game, what makes you think I haven't already cancelled my sub?

Um... I have an Indy alt that had no gun or missile skills,only drone. Even she can easily handle level 3s in her myrmidon. Either you are missing something fundamental in your mission style or are over stating the issue.

That said, people need to start looking ay fits and adjusting. A raven has 8 high slots, 6 launchers. Skip the salvager and tractor beam, add 2 small turrets and help pop the frigs you face.

My cane, added 2 light missile launchers to help pop frigates. Am I as fast as i use to be, no. Is it workable, challenging, and fun, yes. So really, learn to adapt. Accept that things might happen a hair slower, but use it to improve yourself and your piloting/fitting skills.

Never said I couldn't do them, I said it was useless (in the context of it being pointless becuase the ISK just isn't there). Besides, it is the full room aggro that is the real problem and it affects all levels of missions.




First of all, I understand your points however as I have stated I am in the same situation as the OP, this means: I can't fly caldari for example and no I can't use missile launchers either as I am trained for guns and drones.

Second, I get the impression your are using dual accounts considering the remark about the hurricane. That is somewhat equal to flying with an extra player with the exception you get to keep all the loot/LP/ISK yourself as you don't need to split it. Thus you still get the same ISK/hour but less pressure.

Basically, your solution to my problems is that I should crosstrain caldari ships and get a second account and train them up to do missions as well... Does that seem like a quick fix?

Besides, that doesn't really address the OPs problem though. As he can't simply "adapt" and be done.

Thats because the OP's issue isnt one of adaptation its an issue of choice and ability.

The dynamics of missions have changed, you can no longer comfortably run a lvl 4 mission at 8m sp. I dont have an opinion on when its "ok to start running lvl 4's", that is up to the individual, race etc.

A change in tactics is necessary for those that can T2 fit a BS with good support skills which you should have anyway before you accept a lvl4 mission. Like I said, I can no longer solo blitz some lvl 4's in a Tengu the way I used to, it takes more thought.

Interesting. You see I believe the fact missions have been increased in difficulty is due to the idea that CCP want to get people out of PvE and more into PvP. If most PvE'ers are anything like me, then I'll be cancelling my sub long before that happens.

I have a 35m SP char here, and as I'm writing this, I've just had to warp out on WC. That's in a faction/complex fit Navy Scorp. I'm not bitching at the fact, but even those that are well skilled and happy to drop money on the ship aren't immune to this.

I don't think there is any actual advice that anyone can give you here that can help you out - it's just the way it is for now. About the best anyone can really do is offer to team up with you - it's not ideal I know as far as isk/hour goes, but alas - if you find yourself at a loose end I could use a wingman.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that the way missions now work is 'right', but no-one here aside from devs has any real power to do anything about.

For what it's worth I think the difficulty of them being increased is no bad thing, but the rewards should increase too. Then again you could take it further and say the whole system needs to be rebalanced, with L3s getting comparatively more difficult. ...

You kidding me all the revamps are for you noobs--- only thing that wasnt was new AI...this whole last patch was for you guys New desi and t1 crusiers... Its been like 4 years since I have flown or anything like that.. Bring on the tech bs bc new tech 3 items new tech 3 moduals so i have something to train