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Logistics Frigates.
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Pacific Cooler
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-10 18:31:23 UTC
There is a bit of an interesting gap on 3 of the 4 new logi frigates prices. Specifically the gap between build and sell costs. I believe the blueprints were changed with Retribution, leading to this massive price gap (and opportunity).

The Bantam, Navitas, and Burst all cost over 420k to build at today's mineral prices, assuming average ME blueprints. Specifically:

Bantam - 433 971
Navitas - 423 071
Burst - 424 871

However, they are currently selling on the market for less than half these values. Specifally:

Bantam - 198 000
Navitas - 175 000
Burst - 219 000

Now as you can see, there is tons of money to made on these frigates. With money and a little bit of patience, you could literally double your isk. Assuming buyers will sell these above build costs, they [i][SHOULD/i] sell in the area of 450-500k.

So how can you profit from this? Buy, buy, buy, buy. Wait a few weeks, then sell.

So you might be asking yourself, what is the catch? The only one I can point to is that you can't refine these frigates for minerals, as they seem to have programmed waste. However, it is literally only a matter of time before the pre-Retribution supplies dwindle and the price catches up (and passes!) to the post-Retribution costs.


If you don't believe me, do the math for yourself, but the fact remains, you can literally double your ISK.
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-12-10 18:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruvin
Pacific Cooler wrote:
There is a bit of an interesting gap on 3 of the 4 new logi frigates prices. Specifically the gap between build and sell costs. I believe the blueprints were changed with Retribution, leading to this massive price gap (and opportunity).

The Bantam, Navitas, and Burst all cost over 420k to build at today's mineral prices, assuming average ME blueprints. Specifically:

Bantam - 433 971
Navitas - 423 071
Burst - 424 871

However, they are currently selling on the market for less than half these values. Specifally:

Bantam - 198 000
Navitas - 175 000
Burst - 219 000

Now as you can see, there is tons of money to made on these frigates. With money and a little bit of patience, you could literally double your isk. Assuming buyers will sell these above build costs, they [i][SHOULD/i] sell in the area of 450-500k.

So how can you profit from this? Buy, buy, buy, buy. Wait a few weeks, then sell.

So you might be asking yourself, what is the catch? The only one I can point to is that you can't refine these frigates for minerals, as they seem to have programmed waste. However, it is literally only a matter of time before the pre-Retribution supplies dwindle and the price catches up (and passes!) to the post-Retribution costs.


If you don't believe me, do the math for yourself, but the fact remains, you can literally double your ISK.



Are you one of those who has a s... loads of them ?

Cos the catch is , its not about weeks , its about month's . There are LOTS of them , and i mean loads , like "many!" .

So before it becomes profitable sell them much time will pass , During that time the isk invested in this ships will be useless and cant be used to generate more isk . So you gona sit on a big profit , but the ISK youre loosing in the long run will ecplise the profit .

Thats of course imo .



The fact is not about double youre ISK its about isk/time .

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Dave stark
#3 - 2012-12-10 18:40:24 UTC
you do realise, with how few minerals you need to make these frigs to begin with, that the stockpiles are that large you're going to be waiting months, or potentially years to see a return on this kind of thing.

****, look at mining barges, they take more minerals and they're still selling below build price a few months after the rebalance.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-12-10 18:47:02 UTC
Pacific Cooler wrote:
There is a bit of an interesting gap on 3 of the 4 new logi frigates prices. Specifically the gap between build and sell costs. I believe the blueprints were changed with Retribution, leading to this massive price gap (and opportunity).

The Bantam, Navitas, and Burst all cost over 420k to build at today's mineral prices, assuming average ME blueprints. Specifically:

Bantam - 433 971
Navitas - 423 071
Burst - 424 871

However, they are currently selling on the market for less than half these values. Specifally:

Bantam - 198 000
Navitas - 175 000
Burst - 219 000

Now as you can see, there is tons of money to made on these frigates. With money and a little bit of patience, you could literally double your isk. Assuming buyers will sell these above build costs, they [i][SHOULD/i] sell in the area of 450-500k.

So how can you profit from this? Buy, buy, buy, buy. Wait a few weeks, then sell.

So you might be asking yourself, what is the catch? The only one I can point to is that you can't refine these frigates for minerals, as they seem to have programmed waste. However, it is literally only a matter of time before the pre-Retribution supplies dwindle and the price catches up (and passes!) to the post-Retribution costs.


If you don't believe me, do the math for yourself, but the fact remains, you can literally double your ISK.


Most people who would be interested in buying up thousands of these to make a profit have all ready made thousands of them and are all ready making a profit even at the currently low prices, and will continue to make more as they go though their stockpiles they create pre-patch.
Pacific Cooler
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-12-10 18:49:05 UTC
The problem with comparing them to mining barges is volume. I speculate that these new logi frigates will move at a much faster pace than mining barges currently move. Sure there are months, even years of back stock of these things, but you have to remember, these things were near useless before Retribution, and now they actually have a place in PVP. They will be bought and destroyed a pace much higher than they previously were, and much higher than any comparable mining barge.
Dave stark
#6 - 2012-12-10 18:54:02 UTC
Pacific Cooler wrote:
The problem with comparing them to mining barges is volume. I speculate that these new logi frigates will move at a much faster pace than mining barges currently move. Sure there are months, even years of back stock of these things, but you have to remember, these things were near useless before Retribution, and now they actually have a place in PVP. They will be bought and destroyed a pace much higher than they previously were, and much higher than any comparable mining barge.


sure they might move faster, but they also take a fraction of the minerals and therefore a greater volume has been produced. i've seen screenshots of one player's hangar where there's billions of minerals, like multiple stacks of multiple minerals each over 1bn per stack.

honestly, i think you under estimate how big the stockpiles of these ships are.
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-12-10 18:59:42 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2282171#post2282171

This guy with his friend in 2 have already 45.000 of ships and thats 2 players . And there are lots more , with also lot more ships .

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Pacific Cooler
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-10 19:04:39 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

sure they might move faster, but they also take a fraction of the minerals and therefore a greater volume has been produced. i've seen screenshots of one player's hangar where there's billions of minerals, like multiple stacks of multiple minerals each over 1bn per stack.

honestly, i think you under estimate how big the stockpiles of these ships are.



Yeah, I have several max stack sizes of minerals, I'm perfectly aware of the volume I'm talking about here. My speculation is not based on number move logi frigates moved vs number of barges moved, but based on the ISK being moved. Now if you want to get personal, I think you are overestimating how many of these frigates exist. Less than a week ago they were almost completely useless. Nobody older than 3 days mined in a Burst. It takes very little time to get into an old mining cruiser or mining barge. If somebody started manufacturing these on a large scale (10 slots, 24/7) after the blueprint changes went live on Bucky, they still would not have made enough to make a sizable dent in the long term.
Dave stark
#9 - 2012-12-10 19:16:00 UTC
Pacific Cooler wrote:
Less than a week ago they were almost completely useless.

exactly the same could have been said about the procurer before the mining barge changes, yet it was pretty much the "go to" mining barge for people to mass produce, and prices still haven't gone above build cost.
Voellan
Serbian Goat Love
#10 - 2012-12-10 21:27:48 UTC
This seems to be a great way to make some extra isk with low effort. Just have to wait out the old stock prices. Thanks for the heads up !
Veronique Vynneve
EAT ATTiC
#11 - 2012-12-10 22:03:51 UTC
Voellan wrote:
This seems to be a great way to make some extra isk with low effort. Just have to wait out the old stock prices. Thanks for the heads up !


Several years wait. People who "hang back" on the mining barge changes (as they were the first opportunity of their kind) now jumped in to the T1 logi frigates and T1 cruiser build rush in an attempt to get their snouts in the trough this time round.

The BPOs for T1 frigates and cruisers are also massively cheaper than those for the mining barges so the threshold for entry was far lower and production potential far higher.

Personally I think prices will never reach build cost for these ships.
Pacific Cooler
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-12-10 22:05:11 UTC
Veronique Vynneve wrote:

Personally I think prices will never reach build cost for these ships.



Never say never.
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-12-10 22:52:54 UTC
Pacific Cooler wrote:
Veronique Vynneve wrote:

Personally I think prices will never reach build cost for these ships.



Never say never.


whos alt are you anyway ?

Voellan

his?

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Kawaii Officer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-12-10 23:06:39 UTC
i already did double my money on them. selling at 225
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#15 - 2012-12-11 09:18:14 UTC
There are plenty of items at the moment you can apply the same philosophy to, which will recover faster (and in some cases HAVE in certain markets) and flip your ISK sooner. For the timescale of the investment you're suggesting you could be making that ISK several times over on shorter term trades.

There are also several factors jumping out at me that make me weary;

- The stockpiles of Logistics Frigates are massive

Meaning that the price will take a long time to normalize.

- It used to be the case that the Burst/Bantam/Navitas were provided in the Tutorial along with respective BPCs for each in the Industry path
- These ships are popular targets for the MIMAF gang and are easy to begin producing

I'm not sure if the Logi Frigs are still involved in the Tutorial in anyway and can't check at the moment, so I'm not sure on that one, but these points contribute to a stream of the ships entering the market at a value below the price of the minerals used to produce them.

For these reasons I have some reservations about this investment strategy, but good luck with your endeavors.

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.
Pacific Cooler
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-12-11 11:14:47 UTC
Ruvin wrote:
Pacific Cooler wrote:
Veronique Vynneve wrote:

Personally I think prices will never reach build cost for these ships.



Never say never.


whos alt are you anyway ?

Voellan

his?




p sure that's a goon alt corp/alliance. I'm definitely no goon.
Pacific Cooler
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-12-11 11:15:03 UTC
Quinzel Nikulainen wrote:
There are plenty of items at the moment you can apply the same philosophy to, which will recover faster (and in some cases HAVE in certain markets) and flip your ISK sooner. For the timescale of the investment you're suggesting you could be making that ISK several times over on shorter term trades.

There are also several factors jumping out at me that make me weary;

- The stockpiles of Logistics Frigates are massive

Meaning that the price will take a long time to normalize.

- It used to be the case that the Burst/Bantam/Navitas were provided in the Tutorial along with respective BPCs for each in the Industry path
- These ships are popular targets for the MIMAF gang and are easy to begin producing

I'm not sure if the Logi Frigs are still involved in the Tutorial in anyway and can't check at the moment, so I'm not sure on that one, but these points contribute to a stream of the ships entering the market at a value below the price of the minerals used to produce them.

For these reasons I have some reservations about this investment strategy, but good luck with your endeavors.



thanks Lol
Pacific Cooler
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-12-12 01:51:15 UTC
It's pretty simple. It's a waiting game. If you have gobs of ISK, there is no reason not to buy in. If you don't, then don't.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#19 - 2012-12-12 06:46:31 UTC
The markets would correct themselves in a month if the reproc values were brought back to 90% but that isn't going to happen.
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#20 - 2012-12-12 08:54:51 UTC
Pacific Cooler wrote:
It's pretty simple. It's a waiting game. If you have gobs of ISK, there is no reason not to buy in. If you don't, then don't.


If you have gobs of ISK, you'd still be better off finding other investments, as I pointed out.

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.
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