Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I've lived in low sec continuously for the past 3 years (excluding a handful of week long trips to null/wspace). I've been in FW for 2 of those and was a pirate for the other year. Low sec is and always has been a pvp based area. In a lot of ways, null sec is the training field for low sec. My suggested changes would allow for tons of pvp while also allowing pvp fleets to make some isk to cover their losses. The problem with much of eve at the moment is the split between pvp and pve. It should be possible to make isk while pvping, and that's what my idea aims for.

I specifically rejected the idea of locking people out of stations but I think tinkering with station services is a valid option as it gives a very real reason to actually have occupancy on a system. FW's place in eve is as a no nonsense pvp arena. Now I am using the word arena very loosely. By arena I mean everyone there is a willing combatant, there should not be anyone there who's just there to make fat iskies and those people are one of the primary problems with the current FW system. This is why I suggest the complete deletion of the current FW mission system and moving the LP rewards over to plex capping. You make isk by forming a pvp fleet and capping plexes. The enemy may or may not show, but you must be prepared for it and willing to fight if you want to make any isk. I think that's a very reasonable setup.

I never read your FW thread. I took a glance over it, but I couldn't draw any immediate correlations. I simply started from the very beginning knowing what tech CCP has today, and tried to build a vision towards it.

Great minds think a like, so any similarities you find I'll just attribute it to synchronicity.




I agree with this all together.


FW is totally separated and not interlinked. To respond to another person, the ideas I have above aren't "needlessly" complicated - they provide points of action at every step of the way to conquest. You may not care for those choices, but you don't have to make them, other people will do it.


Plexes are boring. Period. There is no way around it. They are BOOOOOOOOOOORING. They RARELY provoke satisfying PVP because the NPCs will primary the first thing that comes in, and then you have to run 50KM to get to the target, they can see you on scan from BILLIONS of KM away (literally) - so they know exactly how many you have and how many are coming. And you sit there...

10 minutes

at

a

time.

Doing

absolutely

nothing.

Over

and

Over

until

some

mechanic

decides

to

flip

it

to

vulnerable.

Tens

Of

Thousands

of

hours

of

peoples

lives

spent

doing

NOTHING.


The system is totally broken with PLEXes and SOV. It needs to be totally thrown out, absolutely thrown out. It needs a fresh system that represents targeted approach that brings players to a particular area large enough to interact with and to claim conquest over, so that you can get 100 people in a system in 10 different places trying to acccomplish different goals. It brings actual strategy and tactics in interacting on taking over and claiming a system, and it takes the fighting away from ONE PLACE.

It puts it in many different places that the PLAYERS can choose is the most relevant for them. They're allowed to make bad decisions, and make poor mistakes, they can find themselves doing logistics and getting good at logistics, important skills important for every part of EVE.

You can still get immediate content through various means, and big battles.

Something similar to my above idea - which I still have to flesh out a few more ideas - will at least get people besides "Arena" players motivated again to come to the FW scene.

Thanks for your support of my thread.

I'll be continuing to summarize my ideas and try and give solid responses to players about my thoughts as well. I'm trying to focus on fresh ideas, rather than rehash the hundreds of things already often repeated about the current mechanics.

I'm hoping to get players to think outside of what has been said and take a fresh approach.

The Militia Information Screen :


The Militia Information screen is useful, but more of something you don't check often because it really doesn't give pertinent information regularly. The killboards give more granular information on kills, though it's interesting to see some statistics.


There is no "News" for FW anymore, so that detail is pretty much stagnant.


Again, starting with throwing everything out and starting from a total redesign, here's what My Militia Information panel would look like :


INFO TABS
Reports : Statistics : Top Pilots


REPORTS ::

The Reports page would tell you which constellations were under attack and defense, similar to the incursion info. As well, the status to completion of the Constellations and how many militia pilots were operating in the constellation, etc. Any relevant news articles from the ISD can be presented here on the side panel.

This alone would make the militia screen an interface used daily by all the players in the Militia.



STATISTICS :

Would show the same information it already does, no reason to mess with it - it's perfect. Victory points would be changed to something more appropriate, or retooled to represent conquest progress.



TOP PILOTS :

This goes back to the idea presented in the RANKS section of my ideas. The RANKS would be displayed by the pilots name, but also their individual actions. Top PIlot for Kills, Top Pilot for Conquest, Top Pilot for Resources, Top Pilot for etc. An All Time and Weekly report would be excellent, letting people feel like they have some chance at being part of history through this, but also a chance to see who is doing the best each week.

This brings internal competition to the militia's, which is healthy. It also lets some people grow leverage and politics by having their name displayed. It's simple tools, but they provide a larger swath of opportunities through the EVE-verse because of people react. Some people will hate them, some will love them, etc.

Occupation of Constellations :



Given the Zones of Conflict and the way that Constellations are pushed in each others favor... what is the consequence of all this?


This is a tough one really. The difficulty in that challenge has been that there are so few tangible connections between Low Sec and the rest of EVE. The only exception is POS' that run reactions in 0.3 or lower that feed some parts of the economy - but how many of those are actually in the war zone, and how would they be affected? It seems that the implications of affecting high sec through low sec interactions is challenging. If the EMPIRES are TRULY at WAR, then it should matter! EVE isn't about Arenas and "sandpits" in the "Sandbox" it should affect and interact with the whole sandbox, even if only ever so slightly.

Well, totally out of the box - how else can you affect things through the low sec wars? Well... frankly... it requires more emphasis on low sec for industrial things. This was discussed as a longer term idea by team BFF - and then maybe the militia can matter more in a direct fashion. The only other way I would say is a system of pledging allegiance to an Empire as a Citizen to gain perks from the Militia efforts.

If we had a system for non-combatants to "pledge allegiance" to an empire, you'd have a system that could in effect, create tangential benefits and bonuses by becoming a "Citizen" of an empire. That would make it valuable to an industrial corp who pledges to a specific Empire to receive perks while operating in that area. They wouldn't be war targets, instead civilians, but they'd get some perks for working on home turf and some penalties for operating in enemy territory. New Industrial corp? Pledge to the Minmatar Republic, if the mInmatar militia is doing well, you'll receive perks for working in the Minmatar republic and helping the Minmatar Economy! In contrast, you'll have some difficulty operating in Amarrian space - more fees, more taxes. When you grow, you can take away your pledge and become a truly intra-galactic corporation.


In Sum, there are no good ways to build on this without attempting a whole new feature. DUST is going to be launched sooner than later, and will have some affect on this universe as CCP becomes more comfortable with it. The Faction Wars have been stated to be the grounds for this testing for the background story. So, looking that even DUST is going to have some consequence on EVE through FW, how will FW FIS have an impact?

---

So, here's what I would say :

If Incursions are allowed to affect EVE and disrupt game play, why shouldn't a WAR WAGED BY PLAYERS do the same?

Food for thought.


Moving forward, from my list above here is what I think would work:

Stargates :
Delay Access for Aggression - If my militia owns a constellation that is NOT under assault, and another militia pilot engages me in it, then delay access for 1 or 2 minutes longer than usual so they can not escape so easily.

Stations :
Delay Access for Aggression - Same as above. This would resolve the bitching about Station Games. A drake that has 2 minutes to die is much more likely to die than a Drake that has 1 minute to die. It is still a choice the player must make, it doesn't take their power away, it just affects the way they MAKE those choices and how easy it is to make them.

Taxes and Broker Fees - Lower these to the militia in militia controlled systems. It won't be a massive difference, but it is a slight perk to create trade hubs in low sec for the militias.

Service Access - This is TRICKY. You don't want to deny the militia completely the ability to dock and do functional things. How about Repairs cost 2x normal? And other slight inconveniences that make them feel unwelcome?


Planets :
Lower Export Fees - Slight change, makes it cheaper for PI to happen. Combined with the "Citizen" idea, it could promote high sec empire citizens to go into low sec for PI and other perks.


Moons :
I've debated the lowering POS fuel requirements. I don't think it's a bad idea, but I think starbases need to be rethought out for this kind of thing. The only reasonable thing I could come up with is to require CHARTERS for low sec if you are an enemy militia, it's not a huge inconvenience, but it would mean you have an extra fuel type and you have to get it through alternative means... and potentially buying it from the same people you are trying to shoot at. Just a thought, other than that, I say leave it alone.

Combined with the "Citizen" idea, it could promote high sec empire citizens to go into low sec for Moon Goo.


Spaceships :
Bonuses for Militia pilots is probably too overpowered per system. I don't quite like it. Cynosural Jammers would be good to have to stop the uber cap drop of death. But, it could interfere with non-militia basic activities - but maybe that's a GOOD thing? The Cyno jammer could come off right before the final "win-loss" fight is determined, and then all the cap drop insanity can go down, but even then, maybe it should just stay cyno-jammed.

I think Cyno-jamming the Assaulted systems would be an interesting idea. Think about it. How often do FW fleets really cap drop? And how much more often are they more worried about interference from cap drops? Probably more of the latter than the former. They want to do their thing, not get WTFPWNED by 50 null sec cap ships. It also forces some challenges on the people in a system. The concept that you can sit in your little room and ignore the rest of EVE has to come to an end, this is one obvious way of doing it.

---

Then, high sec carebears can stay independent, or pledge to X Empire or X Empire - becoming "Citizens" in some respect. They don't get to be valid targf

Well you quoted my idea for Ranks. :)



Well, the NPCs should be targets - something to interact with while the PVP comes to you. Something to hold you there and keep you there. I would rather that they don't get in the way of the PVP - if there was a way for the NPCs to get "distracted", "hacked" or whatever to get them off the field (except the objective NPCs) as soon as PVP arrived, I would love it!

The objectives would revolve around NPCs or Space Objects (Hacking, archaeology, whatever) - because that's what this game offers for points of interest. Otherwise we're back to the "sit at beacon and wait idea".

If I can get better at completing certain objectives, then i will do so - but if it's more expensive, or harder to do, then PVP can ruin it - bringing the true challenge of the unpredictable. I would even say that we should be able to activate warp bubbles in the actual Plexes, or some way to hack some module in a plex to activate a warp bubble effect that stops people from warping out of the fight. This is how badly I want PVP to happen on these objectives. The problem is NPCs always can be a hassle in actual fights, especially with EWAR - jamming, tracking disrupting target painting really **** with PVP and that is really stupid.


Objective Ideas would be as follows :

-Destroy 6 Industrials as they warp in, 1 minute apart.

-Hack 5 modules protecting a logistics relay point.

-Deposit 5,000 ORE into this container to help with logistics production

- Deliver 100 Militants to this Space station to protect it from assault.

---

I'd rather there weren't 100 NPC's waiting at these sitse. Just a couple that can be disposed of and then something to do other than sit.... there.... waiting... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Ok at least we both agree pvp should be how systems are taken.

Now the problem with stopping npcs "as soon as pvp arrive[s]" is by that time unless you had some sort of pve repper fit you wll likely have had your tank eaten away. Result - you warp out.

If you want pvp, then leave the npcs out of it. That way people can fit their ships purely for pvp. Just let the militia players know where all the plexes are being captured and they can respond. this can be done with a dedicated chat channel that players can't type in but gives a message like "Cearain, frigate, minor, Auga" It's really pretty easy.


I'm not sure waiting for success at hackng is better than waiting for a button. Plus I don't really want to have to take up a slot to fit a hacking module. Sorry but the whole hacking deal is not really lame. I don't see forcing that mechanic on everyone in fw. If you really like the idea of ahckign something , just pretend you are hacking the button while you orbit around it. Its basically the same thing.

They're doing this as a feature.


What are you basing your assumption that it would take years to implement this? If they're refocusing ALL THEIR RESOURCES to make EVE better, and the best they can muster is some "basic fixes" then there is no hope for CCP.


If the most that comes out of this for FW is some basic Fixes you should all be offended.



Second, I thanked for supporting MY THREAD - not my ideas. Reading is good.

I strongly second Wendi. I think a really large amount of Bloodpetal's proposed re-design is being devoted to PvE and NPC related changes. Being a manager of software development and also UI myself, I think this sort of stuff will be way to big to get into a winter release, much less ever.

Some relatively small tweaks would actually improve the current FW experience for the current FW players substantially, and they have all been listed here already.

Also, I've been in Faction War since inception, and Bloodpetal is correct that those of us who have stuck it out are in it for the PvP, not the PvE. The best changes are ones that will either

a) Make PvP more rewarding/lucractive, or
b) Create opportunities for more/better PvP

Looking at BloodPetal's kill record on the Minmatar KB, it's pretty clear PvP is not the major goal. 42 kills in a year of play? I've gotten that easily in a week or less myself.

This is not to disparage the non-PvPers. However, the core constituency for FW are currently small gang (not 100-pilot fleet) PvPers.

This content has nothing to do with PVE.


IF you have to deliver materials to a location for an assault, that means there's logistics. That means that there's opportunities for PVP. Having a single constellation to attack means people will focus there and attack that one location for PVP reasons. The impetus will be LP + ISK for actually putting yourself in the line of fire.





The core consistency of FW clearly doesn't care about the problems with FW or they would have LEFT. Such simple logic to answer the question as to why YOU DON'T GET the changes you want. CCP doesn't care to fix these issues because if they were serious enough for those already there to leave over, you WOULD HAVE. The problem with FW is attracting new players and fresh faces to the game.





If you want to see if I was REALLY a PVE-er you'd check my Tribal Liberation Standing Rank. My TLF rank is rank 2. Hardly more than 2.0 standing with TLF. That means I did almost NOTHING for TLF. Maybe about 30 minutes most in PVE content. You'd also realize I left FW about 7 months ago. I flew for both the Gallente and the Minmatar Militias, and most of my kills won't appear on the Militia Killboard because I did "small gang warfare" that didn't involve other militia pilots.

I have about 120 kills during my time in the militia.

If you want to say "Hey look, I get more kills in a week" - uh, sure, whatever. The amount of kills you get doesn't give you any qualifications on what the bearing of this discussion has. And that's the issue here. You don't care about what other people can be playing and doing in FW. If this devolves into some discussion about my PVP skill, then get over yourself. I don't equate quantity with quality.


You're worried that your "precious PVP arena" is going to be taken away. It's not, get over it. PVP will be there. You need new and better improvements so you get more "targets".