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Time for Drones v2.0?
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Drezzster
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-12-10 13:47:29 UTC
Yes please!
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#22 - 2012-12-10 13:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Seismic Stan
Backfire Kitty wrote:
sounds nice, someone should call Fozzie!


I did ask CCP Fozzie about this on Twitter:

@Freebooted wrote:
@CCP_Fozzie Do you think some drone fozzification might resolve concerns regarding drone survivability in PvE?
‏
@CCP_Fozzie wrote:
@Freebooted I think the solution will come through other means. It's something CCP Bettik is investigating options for right now.

@MaryTitor wrote:
@CCP_Fozzie @Freebooted Mmmm... but Amarr drones?...

@CCP_Fozzie wrote:
@MaryTitor @Freebooted Those are going to need fozzification


So things are being looked at and CCP Fozzie accepts that there are some balancing issues worthy of his time. I just hope they take the opportunity to make a decent hash of things rather than just effecting a quick fix. The ball appears to be in CCP Bettik's court.

EVE Online: The Text Adventure --- GameSkinny Correspondent --- Freebooted Blogger
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#23 - 2012-12-10 14:01:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Loney
Yes to all the things!!!


Drones need to be like minions / underlings in other games, lots of fine control and information feedback.

Even if we could see when someone is targeting a drone BEFORE they start taking damage would be nice. Given the small sizes the lock-on time should be fairly long, knowing this there should be lots of time to get the drone home before taking fire.

Also it was mentioned, set a number where they will auto return at X% HP left so you don't have to fumble with sub menus to get the one drone that is getting hammered back to bay before its lost.
Ortos Falconrae
Galactic Industrial Holdings GmbH
#24 - 2012-12-10 14:08:23 UTC
The ability to hold Drones in groups of units in different Orbits would be useful. e.g

Group 1- Scout / Light drones Circling at 20km (or whatever you want)

Group 2 - Med/Heavy Drones Circling at 10km (or whatever)

Group 3 - Repair Drone / Salvager etc

The idea being defence in depth, with different Rules of Engagement for different layers which you would set. For example, the Inner Layer is your strong Defence Belt (Group 2), to protect your Ship, they would remain close and engage units that entered into their area of effect. But if they came under long range attack, the Outer layer (say Group 1) would counter the threat leaving the inner layer to defend you. The support layer (Group 3) would act as a logistics layer repairing drones in flight, your ship and also salvaging anything of use.

Your thoughts?
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#25 - 2012-12-10 14:13:08 UTC
The current keyboard shortcuts don't cut it, they are a 50 pound foam sledgehammer where we need a screwdriver.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#26 - 2012-12-10 14:16:53 UTC
smaller sig radius on all drones since they are about 1/6 the size of a frigate and higher orbit velocity would certainly help them tank a hell of a lot more damage even before you get onto tank/resists.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Mund Richard
#27 - 2012-12-10 16:04:31 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
smaller sig radius on all drones since they are about 1/6 the size of a frigate and higher orbit velocity would certainly help them tank a hell of a lot more damage even before you get onto tank/resists.

Higher orbit velocity would also need a buff to their tracking, as they miss on a stationary target sometimes easier than on one that's moving (since the movement is cancelling out the one half of their orbit, while ofc the other half is affected even worse, but overall, according to some tests, the results are that a moving target does take more damage, as long as it's slower than the drone).

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#28 - 2012-12-10 16:18:28 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
smaller sig radius on all drones since they are about 1/6 the size of a frigate and higher orbit velocity would certainly help them tank a hell of a lot more damage even before you get onto tank/resists.

Higher orbit velocity would also need a buff to their tracking, as they miss on a stationary target sometimes easier than on one that's moving (since the movement is cancelling out the one half of their orbit, while ofc the other half is affected even worse, but overall, according to some tests, the results are that a moving target does take more damage, as long as it's slower than the drone).


Indeed tracking is somewhat lacking now as ships are getting quicker and getting lower sig radius.
But there a plethora of issues about drones that need a massive overhaul.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#29 - 2012-12-10 17:08:12 UTC
If you excuse my self-promotion, there's a couple of ideas I've thrown about the matter some time ago:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1162539
Abu Mee'khy'ar al-Mukai
Reputation OK
#30 - 2012-12-11 10:27:47 UTC
retribution hits drones hardly, they deserve some love
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#31 - 2012-12-11 12:26:33 UTC
In the current era of EVE where the UI has been drastically overhauled and improved, to see the Drone UI still in it's archaic state is depressing. The lack of control via keybind and limited dropdown menus that bind both control system with Drone Health status.

Especially as Drones are more targeted moreso than ever, in both PvE and PvP, twitch keybind control in maintaining them is a huge QoL upgrade.


Also Caldari/Amarrian drones need some serious love.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-12-11 12:49:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Galphii
The change to NPC drone agression and target switching probably would have worked better if it was implemented at the same time as the proposed change to missions, where NPC's would be reduced in number but increased in power, to emulate a pvp experience.

Since we've got what we've got, looking at revamping drones is a great idea. Their defences are somewhat lacking, and I think that's the main problem here. Medium & heavy drones are still quite small, but have cruiser sized signatures (both have 125, which seems weird to me since even heavy drones are much smaller than a destroyer!)

Giving Eve's drones a big facelift would be awesome, as I too love commanding robot minions to destroy my enemies!

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#33 - 2012-12-11 13:27:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Griffin Omanid
i also agree.

The only nice thing at the current AI vs. drone- problem is that all those drone carriers got really cheapBig smile, but also the new amarr and Gallente destroyer still not really interesting in pveSad

Proposal T2 BS Class Juggernaut
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-12-11 17:22:07 UTC
Seismic Stan wrote:
‏
@CCP_Fozzie wrote:
@Freebooted I think the solution will come through other means. It's something CCP Bettik is investigating options for right now.


Any speculation yet on what "other means" may be? I did a quick search on CCP Bettik's posts, and there's only 4 since March, so I don't even know what that particular Dev has been working on specifically to guess what the change may be.

And as long as we're suggesting "fozziefication", I think other drone stats should be looked at, besides Amarr drones. For example, all heavy drones having 100m signature radius? When a ship capable of carrying 5 of them and launching 3 has a radius of 150m? Makes little sense.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#35 - 2012-12-11 20:24:48 UTC
/signed. Particularly with the current AI stupidity.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#36 - 2012-12-11 21:01:04 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Seismic Stan wrote:
‏
@CCP_Fozzie wrote:
@Freebooted I think the solution will come through other means. It's something CCP Bettik is investigating options for right now.


Any speculation yet on what "other means" may be? I did a quick search on CCP Bettik's posts, and there's only 4 since March, so I don't even know what that particular Dev has been working on specifically to guess what the change may be.

And as long as we're suggesting "fozziefication", I think other drone stats should be looked at, besides Amarr drones. For example, all heavy drones having 100m signature radius? When a ship capable of carrying 5 of them and launching 3 has a radius of 150m? Makes little sense.

I wonder if they are thinking of removing drones from the overview, making them untargetable (and thus balancing them against other weapon systems.)

Friends
Escuro
SUN PRAISING INTENSIFIES
DarkSide.
#37 - 2012-12-11 21:01:21 UTC
seems legit, +1 from me
Mund Richard
#38 - 2012-12-11 21:03:24 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
I wonder if they are thinking of removing drones from the overview, making them untargetable (and thus balancing them against other weapon systems.)

If they remove ECM drones from game...
...Nah, prolly not even then. NOS drones would be the new thing possibly.

Maybe remove drones from AI list completely?
Most likely not as well

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Mary Clarissa Titor
#39 - 2012-12-11 21:21:22 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
And as long as we're suggesting "fozziefication", I think other drone stats should be looked at, besides Amarr drones. For example, all heavy drones having 100m signature radius? When a ship capable of carrying 5 of them and launching 3 has a radius of 150m? Makes little sense.


Doesn't have to. You're right, but it doesn't have to make sense. :) Sig radius is not a reflection of size, but also of electronic emissions. Drones, being remote controlled, naturally involve a lot of these electronic emissions, (hence drone bandwidth) so may have an inflated sig radius.

But drones have needed all kinds of work, programming, UI and balancing, since... well, since forever. :)
Screenlag
Armaggedon Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
#40 - 2012-12-11 21:51:47 UTC
And for gods sake, let us give our fighters names, I mean, there are pilots in there! Why let dust mercs have usernames if our fighter pilots are nameless?