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Iteron IV must have an additional low slot !

First post
Author
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-12-11 11:21:20 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
if youre not flying an itty 5, you should be flying a bestower.
all other T1 haulers are useless.
What about a mammoth?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2012-12-11 17:27:34 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Soon the last remnants of the Tier System will be rooted out strongholds by Glorious Generals Fozzie and Yitterbalm.

Alara IonStorm wrote:
Glorious Generals Fozzie and Yitterbalm.

Alara IonStorm wrote:
Yitterbalm.


*whimper* I knew I should have picked another Dev name. Yitterbalm Cry That's Ytterbium! Like, the chemical element! Augh, my eyes are burning, the pain, the agony! I'm melting! MELTING RAWWAAARGGR!

But yes the industrials need to go through the tiericide purifying fires. When and how is still quite undecided at that point, even if we are already considering a few options to get them revamped.
Domineren
Knights Of the Ruined Empire
#23 - 2012-12-11 18:21:35 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Soon the last remnants of the Tier System will be rooted out strongholds by Glorious Generals Fozzie and Yitterbalm.

Alara IonStorm wrote:
Glorious Generals Fozzie and Yitterbalm.

Alara IonStorm wrote:
Yitterbalm.


*whimper* I knew I should have picked another Dev name. Yitterbalm Cry That's Ytterbium! Like, the chemical element! Augh, my eyes are burning, the pain, the agony! I'm melting! MELTING RAWWAAARGGR!

But yes the industrials need to go through the tiericide purifying fires. When and how is still quite undecided at that point, even if we are already considering a few options to get them revamped.

i like your name Mr. Yiterbum

Senn Denroth - Highsec PVP is only for the elite of the elite....

Ex-Rebirth....and miner.  Fight me.

Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-12-11 18:26:42 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Soon the last remnants of the Tier System will be rooted out strongholds by Glorious Generals Fozzie and Yitterbalm.

Alara IonStorm wrote:
Glorious Generals Fozzie and Yitterbalm.

Alara IonStorm wrote:
Yitterbalm.


*whimper* I knew I should have picked another Dev name. Yitterbalm Cry That's Ytterbium! Like, the chemical element! Augh, my eyes are burning, the pain, the agony! I'm melting! MELTING RAWWAAARGGR!

But yes the industrials need to go through the tiericide purifying fires. When and how is still quite undecided at that point, even if we are already considering a few options to get them revamped.


My pet name for you is Yifferbum.

Coming to a furpile near you!

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#25 - 2012-12-11 18:44:44 UTC
CCP Jagerbomb?
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#26 - 2012-12-11 19:10:01 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

But yes the industrials need to go through the tiericide purifying fires. When and how is still quite undecided at that point, even if we are already considering a few options to get them revamped.


The obvious solution is to create 7 entirely new t1 industrials with accompanying models to bring the total up to 5 per race to fit the gallente model.

Crack the whip on your art designer underlings!
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-12-11 19:16:08 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Soon the last remnants of the Tier System will be rooted out strongholds by Glorious Generals Fozzie and Yitterbalm.

Alara IonStorm wrote:
Glorious Generals Fozzie and Yitterbalm.

Alara IonStorm wrote:
Yitterbalm.


*whimper* I knew I should have picked another Dev name. Yitterbalm Cry That's Ytterbium! Like, the chemical element! Augh, my eyes are burning, the pain, the agony! I'm melting! MELTING RAWWAAARGGR!

But yes the industrials need to go through the tiericide purifying fires. When and how is still quite undecided at that point, even if we are already considering a few options to get them revamped.


i hope that means Badger mark III IV and V, as well as the minmatar Crawler and Pillager

dont forget the amarr Masser, Vestibule, and Accreter

so all races have 5 T1 haulers >: )

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#28 - 2012-12-11 20:18:20 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

But yes the industrials need to go through the tiericide purifying fires. When and how is still quite undecided at that point, even if we are already considering a few options to get them revamped.


ISTR the reason why industrials have gobs of CPU capacity is because it was originally envisioned that they could be fitted with some sort of industry-related module which would allow them to do certain stuff in space (I don't know what these module(s) would have done... refining ore maybe? reprocessing modules? Compressing Large Group of Homeless?) ... and this is how Industrials originally came to be called Industrials and not something more apropos to their present-day task of hauling.

You think that this original idea might be revisited whenever the indys' tiericide turn comes around?
Circumstantial Evidence
#29 - 2012-12-11 23:21:48 UTC
I think its kind of ridiculous that the Gallente have 5 variants.
Amarr and Caldari get by with just two.

It seems unfair that the Gallente get all these ships... not even counting special editions!
But which Iteron to remove: The #2 and #5 have no variants tab, best candidates.
But the Itty 5 has a lot of fans, it should stay.

I can think of 3 roles for industrial haulers: capacity being #1 above all, then defense, and speed.
(others...?)
Give Amarr and Caldari one new hull each.

How does this sound:
Move the Viator hull from Itty 1 to 4, remove Itty 1 and 2.
(Create new collectible / hanger trash, or refund everyone with a pile of minerals?)

role focus: primary + secondary
Itty 3: speed + defense
Itty 4: defense + capacity
Itty 5: capacity + defense
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-12-11 23:39:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Frankly, I think the way it is is fairly fine, every race has something going for it. Amarr have the fastest training for a decent T1 and good T2s, Minmatar have the best level 4 T1 hauler and 2 high slots on Prowler, gallente have the largest T1, caldari rock the largest freighter and so on. You can decide for any of those based on your own needs and preferences.
Marcus Henik
Rules of Acquisition
#31 - 2012-12-12 03:13:09 UTC
Well, why not 5 for each race, each with its own role. For example: #1 ore, huge ore bay ok tank, turns like a pig. #2 high sec anti suicide gank, massive tank, small cargo capicity, ok manuver/speed. #3 low sec blockade runner, fast and agile with a warp str bonus, small cargo capacity. #4 fleet auxiliary: small cargo hold massive fule bay for keeping large groups of caps on the move/refuling pos, maby make it able to use blops bridge. #5 bulk trader: lots of cargo itty nutty tank. Alternativly With dust in the works I'm sure each race could get a troop transport: heavy tank, more guns with an ok scan rez and a small hold. Maby with bombardment bonus?
LuckyQuarter
Eden Dominion Coalition
Scary Wormhole People
#32 - 2012-12-12 04:44:18 UTC  |  Edited by: LuckyQuarter
Three basic industrials for each race should be more than sufficient. Honestly, these ships should just be stepping stones for new pilots or cheap(easy to replace) -- much as mining barges are for miners (any serious miner eventually moves up to an exhumer, unless he needs to minimize potential losses due to being in a dangerous space).

The Transports should be the main hauling ships of eve....viator/blockade runners with covops cloak already sort of are outside of highsec. Deep Space Transports should have a larger cargo, certainly more than an itty 5.

Then we simply have four specialty ships:
orca -- should be best hauler for ore/minerals, providing a base of operations in belts and other location for small fleets, and used for little else.
freighter -- biggest cargo and slowest ship period.
j/f -- for hauling to low/null/wormholes and fueling POS's and transporting corporate goods. Needs to agile, super tanked, and have some warp stabs. Super expensive.
new mini freighter -- not sure of exact role, but should have a 125K m3 cargo hold and be priced around 400M for the hull -- needs to serve the needs of small corps who don't need an orca/freighter and who probably will never be able to afford a j/f.
Dave stark
#33 - 2012-12-12 15:32:12 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
if youre not flying an itty 5, you should be flying a bestower.
all other T1 haulers are useless.

the mammoth begs to differ. it holds almost 1 full jetcan, it's actually amazing.
Ammutseba Gangulur
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-12-12 20:08:48 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

But yes the industrials need to go through the tiericide purifying fires. When and how is still quite undecided at that point, even if we are already considering a few options to get them revamped.


Does this mean a role change or not? Will they still be a "warpable (but balanced!) jet cans" or will they actually receive real industrial functionality?
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-12-12 23:02:59 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
But yes the industrials need to go through the tiericide purifying fires. When and how is still quite undecided at that point, even if we are already considering a few options to get them revamped.


Does this mean there's a chance of seeing the rarely used Badger Mark III hull (currently only used for the Bustard afaik) actually make it way into the game in its T1 form?
stoicfaux
#36 - 2012-12-13 01:59:00 UTC
Step 1. Define the problem, i.e. what do people need?

IMO, three hulls:
* one for bulk hauling - High cargospace.
* one for "at the keyboard" hauling, i.e. can fit a cloak, and has high agility. Medium cargospace.
* one for tanky hauling, but, unless it tanks like a procurer, there's not much point. Low cargospace.

IMO, things we don't need:
* hyper-specialized cargo bays, i.e. ore bay or PI bay.
* lots of low/medium slots. It's an industrial ship, not a mini-T3.
* cross ship-class industrials, e.g. destroyer class "smuggler" hauler, or a battleship class bulk hauler.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-12-13 02:10:56 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
if youre not flying an itty 5, you should be flying a bestower.
all other T1 haulers are useless.

the mammoth begs to differ. it holds almost 1 full jetcan, it's actually amazing.


yeah, true.
issue is it needs industrial 4 for 27k cargo while a bestower needs industrial 1 for 20k.
if youre willing to train an industrial skill to 4, you are most likely willing to train it to 5 for an itty anyway.

There is no Bob.

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-12-13 09:51:46 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
issue is it needs industrial 4 for 27k cargo while a bestower needs industrial 1 for 20k.
if youre willing to train an industrial skill to 4, you are most likely willing to train it to 5 for an itty anyway.
That's absolutely not true. Training to 4 takes much less time than training to 5.

PS: CCP Ytterbium, I loved your name before all this fuss :)

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Dave stark
#39 - 2012-12-13 16:10:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Jack Miton wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
if youre not flying an itty 5, you should be flying a bestower.
all other T1 haulers are useless.

the mammoth begs to differ. it holds almost 1 full jetcan, it's actually amazing.


yeah, true.
issue is it needs industrial 4 for 27k cargo while a bestower needs industrial 1 for 20k.
if youre willing to train an industrial skill to 4, you are most likely willing to train it to 5 for an itty anyway.

if you're going for racial industrial V it doesn't really matter, from memory (which could be wrong) all of the DSTs hold more than an itty V can. so if you're going to industrial V, spend 20 mins extra and train transport ships to I, which you're going to do anyway for blockade runners. at that point, minmatar makes a lot of sense, as does caldari. minmatar has the superior blockade runner, and caldari and minmatar both have good contenders for best freighter.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-12-15 08:49:35 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
if you're going for racial industrial V it doesn't really matter, from memory (which could be wrong) all of the DSTs hold more than an itty V can.
Actually, they all hold less. Assuming minimum skill required to fly the ship, tech 1 cargo rigs, and tech 2 cargo expanders:
Iteron Mk V: 38,433m3 - 100%
Impel: 36,219m3 - 94.2%
Occator: 35,509m3 - 92.4%
Bustard: 30,635m3 - 79.7%
Mastodon: 29,243m3 - 76.1%
Mammoth: 27,129m3 - 70.6%
Bestower: 20,256m3 - 52.7%
Badger Mk II: 19,031m3 - 49.5%

But what I think is more important here is that you can't just buy a DST wherever you happen to be. They're decent for hauling a lot of stuff over a long period of time in one area, but the neat thing about tech 1 industrials is that you can just buy one really quick just about anywhere. Also, the Iteron Mk V is undisputably better for hauling sheer volume than the others because it aligns like a tech 1 industrial, whereas DSTs take about 50% longer to align. In many circumstances, that extra align time could add 15% or more to your travel time. Once you consider that, the Mammoth effectively has more like 32k m3 space in terms of how its hauling capacity compares with the DSTs.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

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