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How come null is so empty

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#61 - 2012-12-08 16:32:27 UTC
Sal Landry wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Not to mention CCP just released the data that showed that the mining buff had an impact on the amount of afk and bot miners in high sec.

They cut the legs out from under null sec industry by driving down the value of some high end minerals.
CCP is breaking an already broken null industry, even more, by making it safer in high sec.

All the data clearly indicates that it is the high sec guys that are trying to break EVE, not us.
I'm sure we'll see 700k+ subs in a couple of months, and 70k concurent users on a regular basis, all because high sec got safer. nevermind how it hurts the rest of the game.


How exactly are highsec miners driving down the price of high end minerals? Do you think highsec miners get mercoxit / zydrine / megacyte?

Yeah if anything, it's insane nullsec miners doing that.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#62 - 2012-12-08 16:43:39 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Making pvp more interesting and worth more might get things up and running in dull... i mean null land.

And no I have no idea how to do it cause I don't do pvp that much. It's not something I generaly like in this game Cool


Did no one read the CCP statistics I linked?


I try to ignore test alliance posts xD

but as you so much wanted me to look at that I did.... and I see numbers and dev saying hes watching numbers and even after that I still don't like PvP at the moment (hoping it will change soon or something new comes into the game cuase I'm getting boored) Sad

So why did I have to read that wall of text? Did I miss something?

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#63 - 2012-12-08 16:56:24 UTC
Imports Plus wrote:
Probably because its more worthwhile, appropriate, advantageous, advisable, beneficial, convenient, desirable, effective, feasible, judicious, meet, opportune, practicable, practical, pragmatic, profitable, prudent, seasonable, suitable, tactical, timely, useful, utilitarian and wise to live in high sec.

After the technetium nerf there is nothing worth fighting for/over in 0.0

Nothing of value at all


Yes, yes, vast wealth generation is possible in hisec. More than people in 0.0 could ever imagine.

Now if you'll just sign here i'll make sure you never have to be burdened by all those 0.0 systems anymore.


_____________

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#64 - 2012-12-08 17:25:06 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If we had system to system dial in warp like Star Trek or Star Wars it would be the end of the Great Wall of Carebear formed by the gank pipelines and intel channels and the end of safe nullsec.

Get rid of local too and it's the end of botting.


It would also be a crapstorm as gate camps are replaced by combat patrols and nullbears ragequit all over the forums.

Leet PVPers who sit on gates all day killing everything that moved 20 to 1 would have to adapt or die.

This argument you've been making hasn't changed for a long time, but the reality that people who are too afraid to go to null today would still be too afraid to go to null, even with these changes, didn't change either. Especially if local were to be removed as well.

There are already ways to bypass choke points today. Wormholes, for example, is the best one. Jump clones, especially with the use of a Rorqual, is another. Sometimes you'd need to get a covert ops frigate or two in position before you go, but those can escape any camp with ease anyway.

People are afraid to go to null because they fear what's inside, not because they fear the path that leads there. Don't believe me? Go ask some long-time empire carebears why they don't make the move.


You can ask,l but most will make excuses akin to the "null people are mean and shoot us when we go there so i don't go there" you noticed from the poster you replied to.

While I have characters all over EVE, my "main" has been pure null for 4 years, I remain perplexed by how VIDEO GAME SPACE can somehow be daunting enough to keep people who say they "really would go there if only" from going there.

it's simple really, peeople don't go to null for the same exact reasons that don't pvp in the 1st place,they really don't want to and for many that's because they really really don't like to have to make friends, "take orders from others" or don't like even the though of losing pixels in a video game. But they'll make excuses anyway(it must be that the game is broken, it can't possibly be ME!!!), just to protect their egos.

4000 ships dying per day means null sec is as healty as i need it to be. The guy in the sabe who treid to bubble the station in my ratting system (I'd already warped my mach and rattlesnake though, fail bubble) says there are enough people in null sec....
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#65 - 2012-12-08 17:25:26 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Tian Jade wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Tian Jade wrote:
In short, some alliances got mega rich with moon goo, ...


Fun fact: ...


Yes and I have also seen how proud you are to the fact that your members act like junior-school-bullies to everyone else. Does it really surprise you that people don't even want to play with your type?

About success lets see it one example ...


Wat.

First off, no one ever wants to shoot structures. People in nullsec alliances generally want good fights, or gudfites as we call them. Alliance B and Alliance A would be constantly shooting at each other, because ratters and miners don't put up fun fights. For example, take a look at how much interest those alliances you consider to fall into category A show in category C space (places like Providence or the Drone Regions).

Alliances that fall into category B don't die, they are eternal harassment groups. Take a look at Pizza, as terrible as they are. They have fun shooting at groups that fall into Alliance A's category, do it exclusively, in dirt cheap ships, with no infrastructure to speak of. You can't kill that sort of alliance, they just do their thing and poke at the weaker elements of the group.

In reality, you have the big category A alliances brawling with each other, while smaller groups form up between battles to go have fun shooting at category B alliances, who are constantly doing the same to the category As, while the category Cs just sit around in their crappy space and occasionally have to deal with bored lowsec pilots who like easy kills.


Indeed. The biggest alliances search for "gudfites". And because they are so big and looking for "gudfites", they need to show that to everyone around them and drop everything they have on a small gate camp, on a small roaming gang or a belt ratter (examples). They are even so big and so looking for "gudfites", that they run from every gate camp, roaming gang or belt ratting gang that has slightly more pods in their fleet than they have actual ships. Roll And because they are so big and so much looking for "gudfites", they need to cry and moan and wail about the evil gate campers, roaming gangs and belt ratters being so uncooperative and put resistance against them. Their greatness really shows in one thing: "gudfites". Whoever can come up with such a stringing together of letters, really must be great, cool and "gud".

And these alliance are surely not interested in Category C space. Absolutely not: FSW-3C #1 & FSW-3C #2 are just placed for the "gudfites" and for the laughs.

You wonder why 00 is empty. I guess the reason are "gudfites". On the one hand, there is the explained reasons for blobbing and dropping smaller entities, which makes it near to impossible to live in 00. This even drives roams away since every ship from a Category A alliance that's lingering around in space can be seen as a 100% bait, thus cyno, and therefore not a worthwhile target since you cannot expect a good fight from it (usually, exceptions prove the rule). On the other hand, these "gudfites" keep lots of people out of the "gudfite" alliances since they don't want to be part of the blobs and drops as it's in many cases not desirable for them to be part of a smacking and crap-talking horde of brutes (You cannot deny it and please don't make me post local chats in here, please.)

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#66 - 2012-12-08 17:34:26 UTC
Imports Plus wrote:
Probably because its more worthwhile, appropriate, advantageous, advisable, beneficial, convenient, desirable, effective, feasible, judicious, meet, opportune, practicable, practical, pragmatic, profitable, prudent, seasonable, suitable, tactical, timely, useful, utilitarian and wise to live in high sec.

After the technetium nerf there is nothing worth fighting for/over in 0.0

Nothing of value at all


Dotlan wars were never worth it. Players made moons worth it because it was the best they could come up with. The only thing worth coveting right now might be the pirate super carrier blue print.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#67 - 2012-12-08 17:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Rivr Luzade wrote:
This even drives roams away since every ship from a Category A alliance that's lingering around in space can be seen as a 100% bait, thus cyno, and therefore not a worthwhile target since you cannot expect a good fight from it (usually, exceptions prove the rule).

Aww no wonder that small gang ran away from the little mining barge.

The Procurer that could ^___^

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#68 - 2012-12-08 17:45:43 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Imports Plus wrote:
Probably because its more worthwhile, appropriate, advantageous, advisable, beneficial, convenient, desirable, effective, feasible, judicious, meet, opportune, practicable, practical, pragmatic, profitable, prudent, seasonable, suitable, tactical, timely, useful, utilitarian and wise to live in high sec.

After the technetium nerf there is nothing worth fighting for/over in 0.0

Nothing of value at all


Dotlan wars were never worth it. Players made moons worth it because it was the best they could come up with. The only thing worth coveting right now might be the pirate super carrier blue print.

Ahaha, that pirate super carrier.. Oh wow...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Seawiz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-12-08 17:48:31 UTC
Null sec has become a place for diplomatic care-bears…Cry
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#70 - 2012-12-08 18:34:54 UTC
Seawiz wrote:
Null sec has become a place for diplomatic care-bears…Cry

I thought we were all backstabbing honorless scum.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-12-08 18:57:03 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


The U.S does not build its carriers and subs in Alaska. They build them in areas where it is safe.
You want to heavily industrialize / populate an area? No problem. Just expect that area to experience lower crime rates (less valuable rats), and lower availability of resources (less valuable ore and moon goo).

And just like asteroid belts, moons/ rings would naturally dissipate as the sec status went up.
Alliances that need moon goo to support themselves would have to actively explore for more of those precious resources.

Just like nations do today.

I am not saying that there is a finite amount of resources in the game.
I AM saying that as one supply of moon goo shrinks in a heavily industrialized space, another supply increases in some unknown, undeveloped area of low/null.


So basically You're saying that

A) Alaska is not save (I know, Somalian Pirates everywhere)

and B) That heavily industrialized zones like most big cities have a lower crime rate than let's say rural areas...

I honestly don't know hoe to respond to that.... o_O

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-12-08 19:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
Malcanis wrote:
Midnight Pheonix wrote:
Didn't you get the memo? Null-sec power bloc's all blued each other for the holidays and are spending the time killing red crosses to RMT enough isk to buy christmas presents.


Why would that make null empty? Surely if it's all peaceful and safe, it should be hunning with activity?



Safety isn't the issue. It's the fact that most nullsec systems are absolutely worthless. The only reason people hold sov in them is for continuity. And there's a fair few alliances that just don't bother soving up crap systems.

Sidenote: Most GOOD ratting systems in our space can support about two to three ratters tops. Mining is still ****** money. Let me tell you about why the average null system is empty ~

I'd like the ability to add Level4/5 mission agents to stations as an upgradeable ability, along with associated faction/LP rewards and greater payouts than the highsec versions of the same. I bet you'd see a lot of nullsec dwellers that make isk in highsec come back then.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-12-08 19:19:12 UTC
Sal Landry wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Not to mention CCP just released the data that showed that the mining buff had an impact on the amount of afk and bot miners in high sec.

They cut the legs out from under null sec industry by driving down the value of some high end minerals.
CCP is breaking an already broken null industry, even more, by making it safer in high sec.

All the data clearly indicates that it is the high sec guys that are trying to break EVE, not us.
I'm sure we'll see 700k+ subs in a couple of months, and 70k concurent users on a regular basis, all because high sec got safer. nevermind how it hurts the rest of the game.


How exactly are highsec miners driving down the price of high end minerals? Do you think highsec miners get mercoxit / zydrine / megacyte?

I'm only going by what CCP said.

More people are mining in high sec, the volume of minerals mined in high sec drastically increased, and that mineral values saw a sharp decrease; all of this after the mining and barge changes were implimented.

Or you think not destroying ships built with high end minerals has no impact on the value of those minerals?

Guess what saw a drastic drop in production and sales? Hulks.
At the exact same time as more people started AFK mining in retrievers.

It's not a coincidence.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#74 - 2012-12-08 19:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Imports Plus
Doomheim
#75 - 2012-12-08 19:32:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Imports Plus
There seems to be 3 types of comments/viewpoints in this thread:

1. Rawr stealth nerf highsec never! Ahaha look at you nullbears struggling to eke out an existence and importing all your goods while we get fat in the luxury and safety of highsec.

2. The NAP/Coalition/bluelist rants who wish that everyone would reset each other and fight for....the sake of fighting. Theres still no reason for alliance A to go to sovwar and want to take space from alliance B. For what?

3. Practical people who realize that either existing systems need a massive buff/rework to generate value/desirability (0.0), other areas would need to be balanced to bring them more inline with the whole (high/WH)
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#76 - 2012-12-08 19:43:41 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Yes, yes, vast wealth generation is possible in hisec. More than people in 0.0 could ever imagine.
Now if you'll just sign here i'll make sure you never have to be burdened by all those 0.0 systems anymore


When region A loses half of its value, you have to take regions B and C to make up for that loss.

.
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
#77 - 2012-12-08 19:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarvos Telesto
Answer to OP, because solo pvp die long time ago, its almost impossible to find solo target i mean pvp fited solo ship i dont mention mining barge ;), two possible results while roam, empty null sec or totaly overblobed.

EvE isn't game, its style of living.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#78 - 2012-12-08 20:01:22 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Imports Plus wrote:
Probably because its more worthwhile, ...

Not to mention CCP just released the data that showed that the mining buff had an impact on the amount of afk and bot miners in high sec.

They cut the legs out from under null sec industry by driving down the value of some high end minerals.
CCP is breaking an already broken null industry, even more, by making it safer in high sec.

All the data clearly indicates that it is the high sec guys that are trying to break EVE, not us.
I'm sure we'll see 700k+ subs in a couple of months, and 70k concurent users on a regular basis, all because high sec got safer. nevermind how it hurts the rest of the game.


Oh really? And why is it that more miners go to highsec and mine there? Exactly. There are two reasons. Many of them cannot afford to stay ingame all the time and watch their miners mine rocks and keep an eye on the local to be able to save their only source of income. Many of those do real-life work while they mine belts in highsec in order to be able to afford some fun in the game, be it PVP, market terror or PVE. You can hardly afk mine in 00, and for those to who mining is a major or sole source of income, they cannot earn any money with the current state of the 00. Of course, there are also those who just bot or afk mine for the sake of pissing off someone like you.

The others most certainly don't want to be part of a blob for various reasons. This might not apply to all of the industrial alliances, corps or players, since many of them want to make money regardless what they need to do or swallow, but not all want that.

So, even for industrialists, who in many ways just want to produce and sell things that you and I smack into each other's face, are driven off by the current situation in 00.

Btw. why are you moaning about that anyways? Doesn't your Block have enough members and ship losses to support thousands of miners so that they don't even have to sell their stuff in Jita or Amarr?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-12-08 20:04:22 UTC
OP here, wow null sec blows im going back to high sec.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-12-08 20:07:35 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Those guys dont shoot back, and your not going to get a super-massive capital fleet titan bridged onto your face.


Never seen capital fleets bridged through a titan.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar