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How come null is so empty

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#321 - 2012-12-18 09:38:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Rancor Kane wrote:
Although EVE isn't real life, It might be good to look at real life as in how and why people take risks to move out of their habbitat to unknown coasts.


the two most common reaspons are usualy:

1) To get away from laws and rules the country of origion makes the imigrant feel un apreaciated.
2) To get resourses not available to the homeland.


Point one is reasonably well acomplished in EVE.

Point 2 is where the pain lies.

You don't realy need to leave Highsec, to get everything you need.

and the Difference in Pure Blind and Derelik is the name, resourses are more or less the same. and if there is a difference between 0.0 regions it's ussualy the rats.

And those do sell for high prices, back in the homeland, where the Hic-sec mission runners use them in their chrismas tree ships.

The problem is it's only the faction and ded space modules that really have that.


Yeah, it's not like null sec has zydrine, megacyte, morphite or moon materials, those are readily available in hi sec, I am bathing in Technetium water and using Dysprosium soap right now! Roll


It's not like a very large proportion of nullsec has none of these things.

(citation needed)

Sorry, but you have been tossing that phrase around in everyone's thread to discredit any points they have so, now it's your turn. P
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#322 - 2012-12-18 10:40:34 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Rancor Kane wrote:
Although EVE isn't real life, It might be good to look at real life as in how and why people take risks to move out of their habbitat to unknown coasts.


the two most common reaspons are usualy:

1) To get away from laws and rules the country of origion makes the imigrant feel un apreaciated.
2) To get resourses not available to the homeland.


Point one is reasonably well acomplished in EVE.

Point 2 is where the pain lies.

You don't realy need to leave Highsec, to get everything you need.

and the Difference in Pure Blind and Derelik is the name, resourses are more or less the same. and if there is a difference between 0.0 regions it's ussualy the rats.

And those do sell for high prices, back in the homeland, where the Hic-sec mission runners use them in their chrismas tree ships.

The problem is it's only the faction and ded space modules that really have that.


Yeah, it's not like null sec has zydrine, megacyte, morphite or moon materials, those are readily available in hi sec, I am bathing in Technetium water and using Dysprosium soap right now! Roll


It's not like a very large proportion of nullsec has none of these things.

(citation needed)

Sorry, but you have been tossing that phrase around in everyone's thread to discredit any points they have so, now it's your turn. P


Oh Marlona, you really do walk into these things face first, don't you?

Example Citation

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Khador Vess
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#323 - 2012-12-18 11:46:54 UTC
tldr: Null, STOP BEING BAD


Null is full of bads and garbage so we thought we'd bring some more along...

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15531573

It takes a freakin huge effort to get a fight (see above, taking a freighter 15 jumps into null) and then its usually only poking your head into HED-GP and waving the 'please brutally **** us' flag that does it in the end...

Null is getting boooooring no one is interested in a good fight anymore... oh look bads are cynoing in carriers, dreads and supers.... again... who'd have thought, because a tier 1 bc gang is so OP... yada yada ya....

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#324 - 2012-12-18 11:50:22 UTC
Khador Vess wrote:
tldr: Null, STOP BEING BAD


Null is full of bads and garbage so we thought we'd bring some more along...

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15531573

It takes a freakin huge effort to get a fight (see above, taking a freighter 15 jumps into null) and then its usually only poking your head into HED-GP and waving the 'please brutally **** us' flag that does it in the end...

Null is getting boooooring no one is interested in a good fight anymore... oh look bads are cynoing in carriers, dreads and supers.... again... who'd have thought, because a tier 1 bc gang is so OP... yada yada ya....



Gee, look at all those carriers, dreads & supers that RZR dropped on you. Poor little you.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Khador Vess
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#325 - 2012-12-18 12:03:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Khador Vess
Mallak Azaria wrote:


Gee, look at all those carriers, dreads & supers that RZR dropped on you. Poor little you.



That was later, but my point still stands...


*edit*

I'm not complaining about hot drops per say, but dropping the world + everything onto a tier 1 BC gang is not a GF, bringing 2x logi ships for every dps ship is not a GF... if you are interested in good fights, then bring it... brutal ass r*** of everyone that tries to get a good fight is counter to common sense...

Personally i couldn't care less about what i lose on these roams (if you cant afford to lose it then don't fly it)... personally i turn up on the ganked roams every week i can in the full expectation that we are going to get whelped.... or hot dropped... again... only very occasionally do i see something that re kindles my interest in null, like the epic bombing run two weeks ago that wiped almost all the fleet out... that was epic, it was funny and oh my god did it hurt...

so in summary, YOU the guys in null have the power to bring a GF to people turning up for a brawl. Be the fight you want to have not huge ***** and people will fight
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#326 - 2012-12-18 17:23:33 UTC
Khador Vess wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


Gee, look at all those carriers, dreads & supers that RZR dropped on you. Poor little you.



That was later, but my point still stands...


*edit*

I'm not complaining about hot drops per say, but dropping the world + everything onto a tier 1 BC gang is not a GF, bringing 2x logi ships for every dps ship is not a GF... if you are interested in good fights, then bring it... brutal ass r*** of everyone that tries to get a good fight is counter to common sense...

Personally i couldn't care less about what i lose on these roams (if you cant afford to lose it then don't fly it)... personally i turn up on the ganked roams every week i can in the full expectation that we are going to get whelped.... or hot dropped... again... only very occasionally do i see something that re kindles my interest in null, like the epic bombing run two weeks ago that wiped almost all the fleet out... that was epic, it was funny and oh my god did it hurt...

so in summary, YOU the guys in null have the power to bring a GF to people turning up for a brawl. Be the fight you want to have not huge ***** and people will fight

They don't want a fight. If they wanted a fight do you think they would be blue to most of null space?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#327 - 2012-12-18 17:34:52 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:

What I'm saying is that the fundamental mechanic of highsec is scalable. Besides, highsec has been nerfed multiple times also. Capital ships can't be flown there anymore, in case you missed the memo, and L5 missions were all moved out of highsec.


Can you read English, especially the part where i said the removal of lvl 5s wasn't a nerf, but a bugfix? How did I miss the memo when I mentioned it before you did?

I question your intelligence.

The difference between a bugfix and a nerf is in the eye of the beholder.


Another massive cop out. CCP calls it a bigfix, I guess they are just lying huh?

Quote:

The removal of drone compounds and T1 module drops were bugfixes by the same standard.

The adjustment of the anomalies was a bugfix by the same standard.

If your vision were any narrower I'd wonder if you could see at all.


So, you take things CCP calls a nerf (readjustment or whatever they use for the formal term) and call it a big fix, then call things ccp ACTUALLY CALLED BUG FIXES and call them nerfs, and somehow, I'm the problem?

That's just brilliant. i didn't know it was possible to win General Discussion, but you just handed me the trophy :) .

An adult admits when they are wrong or when another has made a point, you seem incapable of doing that.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#328 - 2012-12-18 18:08:20 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

An adult admits when they are wrong or when another has made a point, you seem incapable of doing that.

OK, fine you might have a point, if capital ships were *never* allowed in highsec then removing capital ship construction from highsec stations was only a bugfix.

It was before my time, I wasn't there, and I can't be arsed to find out in any more detail why there is one carrier in highsec, because it *isn't important*. You can neither build nor fly capital ships in highsec now which is a pretty large feature that isn't available there regardless of the precise details of the history.

The drone minerals nerf was a highsec nerf as well, however, since drones do spawn in highsec exploration sites and missions (in quite large quantities, as my station vault could attest at the time).


An adult admits when they are wrong or when another has made a point, you seem incapable of doing that, you seem to be content with finding fault and not actually engaging any valid points.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#329 - 2012-12-18 18:14:24 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

An adult admits when they are wrong or when another has made a point, you seem incapable of doing that.

OK, fine you might have a point, if capital ships were *never* allowed in highsec then removing capital ship construction from highsec stations was only a bugfix.

It was before my time, I wasn't there, and I can't be arsed to find out in any more detail why there is one carrier in highsec, because it *isn't important*. You can neither build nor fly capital ships in highsec now which is a pretty large feature that isn't available there regardless of the precise details of the history.

The drone minerals nerf was a highsec nerf as well, however, since drones do spawn in highsec exploration sites and missions (in quite large quantities, as my station vault could attest at the time).


An adult admits when they are wrong or when another has made a point, you seem incapable of doing that, you seem to be content with finding fault and not actually engaging any valid points.


You don't make any valid point, you are forming opinions about things you haven't done based on theories of how you think things should work, and thus contributing nothing to these discussions (like you did the very 1st time I replied to you and you didn't know the difference between deadspace stuff and officer stuff, would you like me to link your posts for you so you can review?).

Lots of mainly high sec living people do this by the way, it's not just you, and a big part of the communications problem on the forum is people who play and have played all over the game extensively having to talk to high sec people who have at best limited experience outside of high sec.

Is it too much to ask that you actually experience the parts of the game you talk about BEFORE talking about them?
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#330 - 2012-12-18 18:25:53 UTC
Yes, it is. It's only a game. It isn't *that* complex. It is documented (albeit poorly in parts).

And I'm not the sort to say "mother may I please plant a POS at that moon?" just so I can get a feel for how to run a POS. That's what lowsec is for.

You denied outright that highsec has been nerfed, saying that all the things that were taken out of highsec were "bugfixes", which is pretty irrelevant to whether or not they are actually in highsec or not.

I say that highsec has been nerfed, will be nerfed in the future, and it won't make any difference in the end to nullsec.

Nullsec will always be empty compared to highsec unless the very nature of nullsec is changed. Nullsec isn't empty because it's broken, it's empty because the way CCP chose to encourage competition doesn't support a high population density.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#331 - 2012-12-18 18:31:26 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Nullsec isn't empty because it's broken.


OK, as a thought experiment, let's reduce the facilities in hi-sec to those of nullsec

You know, since they aren't broken

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#332 - 2012-12-18 18:49:21 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Nullsec isn't empty because it's broken.


OK, as a thought experiment, let's reduce the facilities in hi-sec to those of nullsec

You know, since they aren't broken

Nullsec is empty because CCP designed it with a deliberate scarcity of resources so that people would fight over them.

Highsec has more resources and scalable content so they don't have to turn away customers that lack the desire or ability to play in nullsec (whether temporarily or permanently).

That means that nullsec will continue to be empty compared to highsec until CCP decides that it is time to change the way nullsec works in a dramatic fashion.

Nullsec is broken for your purpose, but not for the purpose for which it was designed.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#333 - 2012-12-18 18:50:04 UTC
don't hate the player

hate the game
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#334 - 2012-12-18 18:51:31 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Nullsec isn't empty because it's broken.


OK, as a thought experiment, let's reduce the facilities in hi-sec to those of nullsec

You know, since they aren't broken

Nullsec is empty because CCP designed it with a deliberate scarcity of resources so that people would fight over them.

Highsec has more resources and scalable content so they don't have to turn away customers that lack the desire or ability to play in nullsec (whether temporarily or permanently).

That means that nullsec will continue to be empty compared to highsec until CCP decides that it is time to change the way nullsec works in a dramatic fashion.

Nullsec is broken for your purpose, but not for the purpose for which it was designed.



Please remind me what's worth fighting over in nullsec that requires actually living in nullsec.

Or perhaps you're gojng to tell me that CCP "intended" us to stage from lo-sec or NPC space and fight over tech moons?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#335 - 2012-12-18 18:56:42 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Nullsec is empty because CCP designed it with a deliberate scarcity of resources so that people would fight over them.

There is hardly any fighting over resources anymore. The 'diplomatic' approach has pretty much killed most PvP in null. Yes you may get the occasional 'we were bored' fight, but there is very little combat in null when looking at the big picture. The pen is indeed mightier than the sword. Wretched peace. Evil
fukier
Gallente Federation
#336 - 2012-12-18 19:00:30 UTC
wait what is wrong with null sec?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#337 - 2012-12-18 20:21:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Nullsec isn't empty because it's broken.


OK, as a thought experiment, let's reduce the facilities in hi-sec to those of nullsec

You know, since they aren't broken

Nullsec is empty because CCP designed it with a deliberate scarcity of resources so that people would fight over them.

Highsec has more resources and scalable content so they don't have to turn away customers that lack the desire or ability to play in nullsec (whether temporarily or permanently).

That means that nullsec will continue to be empty compared to highsec until CCP decides that it is time to change the way nullsec works in a dramatic fashion.

Nullsec is broken for your purpose, but not for the purpose for which it was designed.



Please remind me what's worth fighting over in nullsec that requires actually living in nullsec.

Or perhaps you're gojng to tell me that CCP "intended" us to stage from lo-sec or NPC space and fight over tech moons?

That would be a matter of being able to use lowsec or NPC null as a staging area, which is a matter of mobility: jump drives and Titan bridges.

That has nothing to do with the relative value of the space.

CCP set this up, I'm sure they did some analysis before releasing it, if they decide that the ability to project forces across that extent of space in a short timeframe doesn't reflect the direction they want the game to go they will either make space enough bigger to account for it, or remove the capability.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#338 - 2012-12-18 22:24:18 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Nullsec is empty because CCP designed it with a deliberate scarcity of resources so that people would fight over them.

There is hardly any fighting over resources anymore. The 'diplomatic' approach has pretty much killed most PvP in null. Yes you may get the occasional 'we were bored' fight, but there is very little combat in null when looking at the big picture. The pen is indeed mightier than the sword. Wretched peace. Evil



Admittedly though, the situation in null does represent how a free market could bring peace to the world when people stop being idiots so full of revenge and religion.

I think Ludwig von Mises wrote some huge essay on this very thing a log time ago.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#339 - 2012-12-18 22:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Commander Ted wrote:
Did a 50 jump roam in my caracal and found absolutely 0 people going between gates. Jumped into a busy bottleneck constellation full of ratters and died as expected. Even then though the busiest systems in null have only 60 guys docked and active according to the map. Whats going on? Aren't their people roaming around looking for fights?

Was it null sec… or was more of it actually low sec? I used to have to jump 15+ gates to get into my null sec home most of which was through low sec. Still, one possible reason is most large concerns populate and congregate in a localized area for protection and defend out from there. They actively discourage other groups from homesteading near them, creating large vacuous regions of seemly empty space where they still maintain influence.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Santa Spirit
Christmas Spirit and Goodwill Toward Man
#340 - 2012-12-19 02:38:12 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:
Null is garbage. Plus all that empty space is empty because anyone who moves in gets WTFSUPERCAPBLOBBED just for the laughs.




^^this^^^ is how I understand it to be and most of the reason I won't go there.

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