EVE General Discussion

Basically this.


Null is "empty" cus ppl is concentrated in rattin spots too asphyxiated by inflation, rattin like mofo´s

Faction spawn´s loot is mostly crap worth T2-like, exploration loot is so random, mining sucks and prices keep rising and rising.

So null folks see themselves forced to rat for hours and hours, and every hour you expend rattin, is an hour u cant be PvPin, and that was, in the beginning, the point of being a null inhabitant.

So we have two solutions:

A: Ask for null income to be buffed, but honestly that will contribute further towards the inflation.

B: Ask for the hi sec income to be nerfed, that controls the inflation, prices go down, and we got a more decent risk/isk balance in 0.0

See? forget about upgrades and ****, thats not the problem.

If I'm wrong why are you only talking about the profitability in terms of a single upgrade out of the 4 that can improve the profitability of a system?[/quote]

Because that is what the discussion was about, and that 1 upgrade (Pirate Detection Array) is the only one that means anything to combat pve. When people talk about "upgraded systems", that's what they are talking about.

In any system with below -0.4 sec if you are alone you mgiht do ok with the forsaken and forlorn that is there, OR our could get lucky and get a ded plex you have to scan down, or a few radars maybe. But at best (and probably just stuck with anoms) you could make the same or less isk per hour that you could running missions in the safety of empire (which mean sless isk than high sec incursions).

You can of course leave the upgraded system and scan around for plexes and maybe do ok (or every once in a while strike gold), but this does not compare the the steady and virtually uninterruptable isk generating power of high sec. This is why in addition to my null sec ratting toons, I've got a low sec lvl 5 mission toon and a high sec incursion runner.

in high sec, neutrals coming into system mean nothing, so when incursion running I don't even use local.

Is any of this unclear? to you.

What's clear to me is that you need more null sec experience before trying to discuss null sec with people who have lived there every day for years. I know you won't follow that advice, as with most high sec people, it's simply easier to be mad at the messenger than to re-evaluate your own position.

Yeah, and my original question, and the one I keep coming back around to, is "why only that upgrade?"

Is it because the others don't work?
If so, why aren't there dozens of threads asking for them to be fixed?

Is it because they are too much trouble to use?

Is it because people just don't use them?

If I seem obtuse on this point it's because nobody has given a reason other than "they're worthless" which could mean any of those things.

[Edit]
I see you actually addressed some of my question while I was posting this.

Yeah, I know signature sites only give a chance for good stuff, don't the upgrades keep enough of them around?

You apparently really want the problem to be high-sec isk generation (which I could honestly care less about, I mostly mission for standing when I do, which doesn't really play the same as missioning for isk/hr).

The mining improvement is just fine, and does its job admirably in moderate nullsec systems, including a way to get a cheap thrill ride if you have a nice heavy ship.

By your latest response it sounds like the exploration improvements are actually used (and if you look back you'll see I skipped the wormhole improvement, I may not live in nullsec right now but I'm not *stupid*). I honestly expected that the loot from the combat sigs and profession sites to at least match up with that available from anomalies, especially in systems where the anomaly spawns aren't the best.

Simply put, if you can't improve a -0.1 system sufficiently that it can pay the sovereignty and upgrade bills with enough left over to build on then that is what is broken. The people who are currently living with it should be lobbying hard to get that fixed. No nullsec alliance should ever need to be dependent on highsec income for isk.

Apart from those items, what you have said about what goes on in nullsec on the whole matches up with what I experienced (less some of the more unpleasant aspects of my particular choice of people to go there with in the past).

Not really... but most importantly, if you have crappy anomalies, you tend to try and run anomalies elsewhere or :highsec:. It's part of the reason you can have sov in crappy places of the map, it's like you're paying CONCORD to have the name on a map.

An out of game map...

I dont see alot of good ideas on the forums but this one I absolutely love. +1 and I fully support this idea.

Approx 40k players in a game that is still advertised to have 350k players... yup.

That's actually a bit high. Normal planning load for online services has been 10% of subscriber base since the '80's.

Anyone ever stopped a second thinking that maybe CCP does not share their opinion with theirs?

Let me play devil's advocate.

Years of nerfs being liberally applied because of "too much ISK was being generated" with no distinction about area seem to indicate CCP takes a very macro approach to monetary inflation and CCP tend to apply "horizontal cuts".

For what matters to CCP, nullsec has not to forcibly be the place of mad ISK. Nullsec is the place for social players, empire builders, PvPers, guys who want to play the "full unlocked game", the "I want to see the Far West" people. THAT's the "prize", not improved, mad ISK farming.

Nowhere (please point me if I am wrong) has CCP written that nullsec is where the ISK faucets have to be.

Actually, it's very stupid to put ISK faucets outside of hi sec because:

- most PvPers want to MAKE ISK to recoup their losses and hi sec is THE controlled place where to do it. Farming ISK is boring as is, making people do it in dangerous space adds unneded danger to the tedium.

- in order to offset the massive risk vs reward low/nullsec disadvantage, CCP would have to insanely buff the NPC rewards / bounties. To make it worse, CCP would have to let poor alliance guys make ISK despite a very high risk (vs top alliances risk) = create huge faucets to offset the bigger risk.

- null sec NPCs naturally tend to yield highest bounties, null sec players can use every kind of super powerful farming ships. On the contrary making them grind ISK in hi sec forces them to use battleships as a maximum and against not top notch rats => ISK faucets are more under control.


The only downside to it is only left on players' shoulders: to multi-account. Even here, CCP has all the advantage at forcing them into paying more than one account.

Because everyone plays 24/7, right?

40k on out of 350k subscribers is a way above average ratio.