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How come null is so empty

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Phil Da Agony
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#221 - 2012-12-13 17:27:22 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
You are reinforcing my point instead of contradicting it.
There is a lot of potentially profitable content available to nullsec dwellers that isn't being used, because the people who are playing in nullsec don't want to use it.

Even highsec signature sites can be hugely profitable, yet several nullsec people have just chimed in here to say they don't want to bother with them. I guess officer modules aren't expensive enough to make it worthwhile yet >.>



I guess you have no idea at all what youre talking bout.

Officer modules come from officer spawns, in gates/belts, theyre uber rare, and uber random, you cant farm em, you just find em.

In case you were talkin bout Deadspace modules, but you can distinguish blue from purple. Well, doin a 8/10 or above, needs usually 2+ people, a good amount of time, and a crazy amount of risk.

So lets say you have 3 hours to play that given day, a couple of corp mates that are bored and have the right ships to run the site in a place where u CANT buy what u want cus youre the hell away from a trade hub, and you´re already rich so you dont care about loosin a 1.5B ship due to hostiles or the anomaly itself. All you are goin to get is:

A: Nothing. 45% of the time.

B: Marginal reward for every pilot, equal or less to what you´d have done in std anomalies. 45% of the time.

C: Good even after splittin the loot between the pilots involved, above rattin average. 10% of the time.

Nice way to make a living, bro.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#222 - 2012-12-13 17:30:01 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
You are reinforcing my point instead of contradicting it.
There is a lot of potentially profitable content available to nullsec dwellers that isn't being used, because the people who are playing in nullsec don't want to use it.

Even highsec signature sites can be hugely profitable, yet several nullsec people have just chimed in here to say they don't want to bother with them. I guess officer modules aren't expensive enough to make it worthwhile yet >.>


This is where you prove you don't know what you're talking about lol. I'll expand on that if you like but it should be pretty obvious.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#223 - 2012-12-13 17:31:53 UTC
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
You are reinforcing my point instead of contradicting it.
There is a lot of potentially profitable content available to nullsec dwellers that isn't being used, because the people who are playing in nullsec don't want to use it.

Even highsec signature sites can be hugely profitable, yet several nullsec people have just chimed in here to say they don't want to bother with them. I guess officer modules aren't expensive enough to make it worthwhile yet >.>



I guess you have no idea at all what youre talking bout.

Officer modules come from officer spawns, in gates/belts, theyre uber rare, and uber random, you cant farm em, you just find em.

In case you were talkin bout Deadspace modules, but you can distinguish blue from purple. Well, doin a 8/10 or above, needs usually 2+ people, a good amount of time, and a crazy amount of risk.

So lets say you have 3 hours to play that given day, a couple of corp mates that are bored and have the right ships to run the site in a place where u CANT buy what u want cus youre the hell away from a trade hub, and you´re already rich so you dont care about loosin a 1.5B ship due to hostiles or the anomaly itself. All you are goin to get is:

A: Nothing. 45% of the time.

B: Marginal reward for every pilot, equal or less to what you´d have done in std anomalies. 45% of the time.

C: Good even after splittin the loot between the pilots involved, above rattin average. 10% of the time.

Nice way to make a living, bro.
+1

this guy has actually live din null sec it seems.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#224 - 2012-12-13 17:33:06 UTC
I do exploration, I know how the odds work. People who run anomalies are too risk averse to take the chance that they won't get a payout this session.

I used officer modules because they are the *big* payout from escalations, and if they aren't selling for enough to tempt the anomaly runners out of their comfort zone and get them to actually launch a scan probe now and then I think my point is well made.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#225 - 2012-12-13 17:35:13 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
I do exploration, I know how the odds work. People who run anomalies are too risk averse to take the chance that they won't get a payout this session.

I used officer modules because they are the *big* payout from escalations, and if they aren't selling for enough to tempt the anomaly runners out of their comfort zone and get them to actually launch a scan probe now and then I think my point is well made.


You don't get officer modules from escalations.......

You are serioulsy off base (and not just because you confuse officer mods with deadspace loot).
Phil Da Agony
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#226 - 2012-12-13 17:38:21 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
I do exploration, I know how the odds work. People who run anomalies are too risk averse to take the chance that they won't get a payout this session.

I used officer modules because they are the *big* payout from escalations, and if they aren't selling for enough to tempt the anomaly runners out of their comfort zone and get them to actually launch a scan probe now and then I think my point is well made.



Yeah people that lives in null sec is so fuckin risk averse compared to the hi sec guise that I makes me wanna cry FFS why Im even botherin with you?

Your point is "theres a lot of potential and good money to be made in 0.0", and no, theres not, your wrong, risk/reward looks more like R · I · S · K / rewhat?
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#227 - 2012-12-13 17:49:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
I do exploration, I know how the odds work. People who run anomalies are too risk averse to take the chance that they won't get a payout this session.

I used officer modules because they are the *big* payout from escalations, and if they aren't selling for enough to tempt the anomaly runners out of their comfort zone and get them to actually launch a scan probe now and then I think my point is well made.


You don't get officer modules from escalations.......

You are serioulsy off base (and not just because you confuse officer mods with deadspace loot).

Yeah. And since you know so much about it, you must be making good isk off all those exploration sites in your improved systems. I certainly haven't heard anyone complaining that they don't work.

When I *have* been in nullsec what I see is people running the best anomalies they can in their ratting carriers when they aren't doing PvP, which is exactly what you said you do a few posts up.

Just HTFU and admit that you do what you said you do, which is what *I* said people in nullsec mostly do.

The truth hurts.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Phil Da Agony
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#228 - 2012-12-13 17:56:17 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:

Yeah. And since you know so much about it, you must be making good isk off all those exploration sites in your improved systems. I certainly haven't heard anyone complaining that they don't work.

When I *have* been in nullsec what I see is people running the best anomalies they can in their ratting carriers when they aren't doing PvP, which is exactly what you said you do a few posts up.

Just HTFU and admit that you do what you said you do, which is what *I* said people in nullsec mostly do.

The truth hurts.


lol umadbro?

Nobody pretended not to rat like most of the ppl do, what were just tryin to explain to you is why, people does it cus is the only decent risk/reward method to make a living, and afford ships in a place where u have to constantly fight and you know... Take the risks were supoused to have an adversion to and stuff.

But I guess you werent the 1st of your promotion amirite?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#229 - 2012-12-13 18:01:52 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
I do exploration, I know how the odds work. People who run anomalies are too risk averse to take the chance that they won't get a payout this session.

I used officer modules because they are the *big* payout from escalations, and if they aren't selling for enough to tempt the anomaly runners out of their comfort zone and get them to actually launch a scan probe now and then I think my point is well made.


You don't get officer modules from escalations.......

You are serioulsy off base (and not just because you confuse officer mods with deadspace loot).

Yeah. And since you know so much about it, you must be making good isk off all those exploration sites in your improved systems. I certainly haven't heard anyone complaining that they don't work.

When I *have* been in nullsec what I see is people running the best anomalies they can in their ratting carriers when they aren't doing PvP, which is exactly what you said you do a few posts up.

Just HTFU and admit that you do what you said you do, which is what *I* said people in nullsec mostly do.

The truth hurts.


If you would stop sputtering nonsense we could probably figure out what you are trying to say. you're not doing a good job at all at communicating.

Null sec anomalies and exploration are my main things, so much so that when you started talking about them I knew you were wrong.

when did I ever say -I- didn't make good isk doing what I'm doing.

I'm seriously confused, can anyone else make sense of this dudes madness?
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#230 - 2012-12-13 18:11:36 UTC
In simple English:
There are tools provided by CCP to expand the available exploration and signature combat sites in nullsec systems.

Why don't you use them to allow more people to play effectively in those systems? These sites, especially when readily available, should be at least as profitable as the anomalies and mining sites that are currently the dominant system improvements in nullsec.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Phil Da Agony
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#231 - 2012-12-13 18:14:44 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
In simple English:
There are tools provided by CCP to expand the available exploration and signature combat sites in nullsec systems.

Why don't you use them to allow more people to play effectively in those systems? These sites, especially when readily available, should be at least as profitable as the anomalies and mining sites that are currently the dominant system improvements in nullsec.



"Why dont u guise do what ure already doin?"


Is dat your question? mmmmmmmmkey.


And btw, dont make me talk bout 0.0 mining, ive run out of kleenex.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#232 - 2012-12-13 18:23:42 UTC
Apparently not everyone got the memo on that one, because it seems that since only a couple of people can take advantage of the anomalies in systems that aren't -1.0 those systems are "worthless".

I may be misinterpreting what people are saying here, and I know that my nullsec experience was not the ideal case, but from what I've seen of all the available options it looks to me like *any* nullsec system can be improved adequately to pay for itself with plenty of profit left over (which would seem far from worthless to me).

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#233 - 2012-12-13 18:24:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
In simple English:
There are tools provided by CCP to expand the available exploration and signature combat sites in nullsec systems.

Why don't you use them to allow more people to play effectively in those systems? These sites, especially when readily available, should be at least as profitable as the anomalies and mining sites that are currently the dominant system improvements in nullsec.


You actually think that people aren't EXPLORING in null sec?

Or, are you actually saying you think the system upgrades put PERMANENT signature sites (like DED 10/10s) in upgraded systems?

This is probably why I was confused, and why you don't know what you are talking about. There is an upgrade to increase the CHANCE of a signature site being in an upgraded system but (unlike with the anomalies) it's only a chance, it's not a sure thing. i've seen upgraded systems go WEEKS without a new sig popping up in them.

The anomalies are persistent, and that's what we're talking about.

All this time, you thought we could just be in an upgraded system, launch probes and BOOM more good site to run?

ROFL I should have known when you didn't know the difference between officer mod and deadspace mods. You honestly don't know anything about the subject we're talking about, and yet you've not only posted again and again, but assumed a superior attitude as if you won an argument you don't even understand.

You're priceless, you should run for high sec csm rep. I'm seriously sitting here with tears in my eyes trying to rat (if a red comes in and kills my ship because I can't see local through the tears, I'm sending you the bill).
Phil Da Agony
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#234 - 2012-12-13 18:27:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Phil Da Agony
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
it looks to me like *any* nullsec system can be improved adequately to pay for itself with plenty of profit left over (which would seem far from worthless to me).



And giant groups of very experienced players havent realized out yet, how sad!

Just no.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#235 - 2012-12-13 18:29:27 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Apparently not everyone got the memo on that one, because it seems that since only a couple of people can take advantage of the anomalies in systems that aren't -1.0 those systems are "worthless".


Yea, you're not getting it at all. Most null sec systems are virtually worthless because anomalies that are not forlorn/forskaen hubs, havens or sanctums are not worth running (unless you want to spam Guristas Hidden Den's in hope of a 6/10 escalation, which i've done).

We're talling you that the idea that null sec is a place where you can go and print isk is dumb. Tht's why so many null sec folks (like me) have alts in high sec to do incursions and missions, almost the same isk, MUCH less risk and headache. i don't even have local up when I do high sec incursions.

Quote:

I may be misinterpreting what people are saying here, and I know that my nullsec experience was not the ideal case,


Man , you could say that again LOL/

Quote:

but from what I've seen of all the available options it looks to me like *any* nullsec system can be improved adequately to pay for itself with plenty of profit left over (which would seem far from worthless to me).


You are wrong.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#236 - 2012-12-13 18:32:03 UTC
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
it looks to me like *any* nullsec system can be improved adequately to pay for itself with plenty of profit left over (which would seem far from worthless to me).



And giant groups of very experienced players havent realized out yet, how sad!

Just no.


That must be it, I mean just because some of us live every day in null sec and have literally killed tens of thousands of npc ships (I'm surprised Guristas, Blood Raiders, Angels etc haven't formed a coalition to come kill me personally lol), that doesn't mean we actually KNOW anything about the subject compared to Buzzy Warstl who said he doesn't have much null experience.

Did i break a sarcasm meter yet?
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#237 - 2012-12-13 18:39:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Buzzy Warstl:"Apparently not everyone got the memo on that one, because it seems that since only a couple of people can take advantage of the anomalies in systems that aren't -1.0 those systems are "worthless"."

Yea, you're not getting it at all. Most null sec systems are virtually worthless because anomalies that are not forlorn/forskaen hubs, havens or sanctums are not worth running (unless you want to spam Guristas Hidden Den's in hope of a 6/10 escalation, which i've done).

Anomalies != Signatures.
I'm talking about the profit potential of Radar and Mag sites as well as Signature combat sites, and you keep talking about anomalies, which aren't the same thing at all.

This is why I get the feeling that you aren't grasping what I'm saying.
Quote:


We're talling you that the idea that null sec is a place where you can go and print isk is dumb. Tht's why so many null sec folks (like me) have alts in high sec to do incursions and missions, almost the same isk, MUCH less risk and headache. i don't even have local up when I do high sec incursions.

So why aren't you running the radar, mag, and combat signature sites instead?
One poster here said they are, but apparently they are an exception since what you are saying here is exactly what my nullsec experience was.

Hence:
Quote:

Quote:

I may be misinterpreting what people are saying here, and I know that my nullsec experience was not the ideal case,


Man , you could say that again LOL/

Quote:

but from what I've seen of all the available options it looks to me like *any* nullsec system can be improved adequately to pay for itself with plenty of profit left over (which would seem far from worthless to me).


You are wrong.

If I'm wrong why are you only talking about the profitability in terms of a single upgrade out of the 4 that can improve the profitability of a system?

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Phil Da Agony
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#238 - 2012-12-13 18:40:29 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Did i break a sarcasm meter yet?



It was already accidentally broken yesterday by a missionrunner who cryied about the uberhardcore rat AI that forces him to pull the drones back into the bay twice per mission.
Phil Da Agony
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#239 - 2012-12-13 18:44:20 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:

If I'm wrong why are you only talking about the profitability in terms of a single upgrade out of the 4 that can improve the profitability of a system?



Geezuz man what part of ITS NOT WORTH IT is the one u dont FFFF get?

Srsly, 08 toon, hope u bought it or some rando gave it to you, daaaamn.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#240 - 2012-12-13 18:51:49 UTC
Well, then why aren't you lobbying to get the stuff that's so clearly broken fixed?

We have dozens of "nerf AFK cloakers!" threads, but I must say I haven't seen a single "Entrapment arrays are broken, please fix them!"

I've seen lots of "highsec payouts are too high!", but no "improve the output of Survey Networks!"

You could try to get CCP to fix the stuff that's broken for you (assuming it's *actually* broken and it isn't just a matter of you can't be bothered to use it), or you could just keep on attacking anyone who questions the received wisdom of the ages.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs