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Faction Warfare: Moving Forward.....

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Author
Rel'k Bloodlor
Guldan Age Stories
Federation Front Line
#921 - 2012-01-27 13:48:39 UTC
Well I don't think this tread should die.
Time for some Necromancy.


So how do we have an influence on the war zone and not have SOV.? any ideas?

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#922 - 2012-01-27 15:10:08 UTC
Don't worry, this thread isn't going anywhere. Our work is by no means done....

I think if anything its only resting a bit because of the heated discussions that flared up over in Warfare & Tactics that have temporarily held the focus of the usual FW suspects.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#923 - 2012-01-27 15:19:10 UTC
Well, CCP has already proven that specific bonuses/penalties can be applied in space without sov. present in the Incursion system .. only question is what would be a good idea.

Ideas floated so far as my hastily deteriorating memory has them:
- Station guns fire on opposition.
- Denial of docking rights.
- Denial and/or cost increase of services.
- Boosts to PI, Industry, mining etc.
- Incursion type boosts to ship attributes.
- Adjustment of system security rating.

Will probably have to be a "soft" benefit to avoid the sheep effect where everyone joins a winning side, but then again that can be mitigated by making flipping harder as one progresses and vice versa.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#924 - 2012-01-27 16:14:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Well, CCP has already proven that specific bonuses/penalties can be applied in space without sov. present in the Incursion system .. only question is what would be a good idea.

Ideas floated so far as my hastily deteriorating memory has them:
- Station guns fire on opposition.
- Denial of docking rights.
- Denial and/or cost increase of services.
- Boosts to PI, Industry, mining etc.
- Incursion type boosts to ship attributes.
- Adjustment of system security rating.

Will probably have to be a "soft" benefit to avoid the sheep effect where everyone joins a winning side, but then again that can be mitigated by making flipping harder as one progresses and vice versa.


I know the biggest predictable fear will be the side-flipping argument, but I think in the long run if Faction Warfare becomes enticing overall as a feature and invigorates the community again while drawing in more pilots there will always be a core group in each militia that doesnt flip-flop.

The self-balancing factor is that most of us here are in it for the quick fights and plentiful PvP. The worse times are those when you vastly outnumber your opposing faction, because it means there's no one to shoot at. In the two years I've fought for the Minnie Militia - I'd say roughly 90% of the pilots switching factions in our warfront have gone from the "winning" faction to the side of the underdogs, not the other way around. I can't speak for Gallente / Caldari but I'm assuming its no fun for them either when you have twice as many people as your foe.

You're right, I think the consequences need to be more subtle than 0.0, merely a stronger carrot to encourage plexing and foster participation across time zones. I personally think "occupancy" is a better term to use to describe what we should be fighting over, more so than Sov which has too many nullsec connotations and really is a more permanent description of system control.

For example, if we seize Huola obviously we're not going to be replacing the entire 24th imperial crusade station overnight, but it should be classified as "TLF Occupied" and be able to shoot the now unwelcome former residents.

POCO's are of course another obvious area for impact, If militia corps own POCO's in a system but their enemy wins occupancy, it only makes sense that it would affect POCO operations to some degree, the first thing that comes to mind is a tax penalty. That way there is incentive for POCO cartel corps to make sure the enemy never seizes the system, because losing control would impact customer relations.

I'm also partial to agents in occupied stations being held hostage as POW's, but the economic consequences of this must be considered heavily to prevent total victory where a losing faction gets completely shut out from such an important income source. Too heavy an income penalty and you WILL see faction defection for purely economics reasons.

One solution might be to partially shift some of the LP rewards to plexing or PvP kills, and have a law of diminishing returns where the more systems a particular faction occupies, the less payout there is for a plex victory or player kill. That way, a faction that is being overwhelmed and may not be making much isk because their agents are being held at gunpoint can at least make up for this by being more highly rewarded for taking their territory back.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#925 - 2012-01-27 20:59:02 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Well, CCP has already proven that specific bonuses/penalties can be applied in space without sov. present in the Incursion system .. only question is what would be a good idea.

Ideas floated so far as my hastily deteriorating memory has them:
- Station guns fire on opposition.
- Denial of docking rights.
- Denial and/or cost increase of services.
- Boosts to PI, Industry, mining etc.
- Incursion type boosts to ship attributes.
- Adjustment of system security rating.

Will probably have to be a "soft" benefit to avoid the sheep effect where everyone joins a winning side, but then again that can be mitigated by making flipping harder as one progresses and vice versa.


I know the biggest predictable fear will be the side-flipping argument, but I think in the long run if Faction Warfare becomes enticing overall as a feature and invigorates the community again while drawing in more pilots there will always be a core group in each militia that doesnt flip-flop....


I actually don't think that many people will flip flop. (although some already have done that for the easier missions) I do think players who are new to faction war will tend to join the side that has the better benefits. Why would anyone decide they will join the side that can't make as much isk or has allot of system wide nerfs to their ships?

BTW I don't think the idea that ship attributes would be nerfed for the losing side ever had much support at all.

I wasn't there but I had heard that about the time caldari occupied all of gallente fw space the number of gallente pilots was extremely low. Caldari on the other hand, had large numbers of active pilots.

If this is true, then we need to consider that this sort of piling on the winning team already happened even though there was no benefit.

On this topic though there have been suggestions to counter everyone joining the same side. Such as making it so the losing side can start fitting larger ships in plexes etc. That would definitely help the side with fewer numbers. There were a few other suggestions in this regard as well.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Runawaypally
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#926 - 2012-01-31 04:06:40 UTC
Blog? Dev note regarding FW? Something mentioned in a Vid Blog? Something other then non-descript notes from a meeting that had little to do with it? (hell it wasnt even important enough to get its own topic)
Rel'k Bloodlor
Guldan Age Stories
Federation Front Line
#927 - 2012-01-31 10:33:08 UTC
So crazy thought at random time in the morning.
What if they made a frigate that like the cruiser and battleship we can get, was a lower tier hull and cheaper than the existing one.
Use each races mining frigate add the "navy" bump and change it's bonuses to- race's small remote repper range 30% and race defence* bonus per frigate level, Roll bonus 50% reduction in cap need or small remote reps?

*Like 5% resist for some 10% one type of HP for others?

It would give both the PvP and PvE groups in faction war some thing to get.
Would give lower level players a chance to work together and achieve goals larger than them selves.(in and out side of FW)
FW pilots could use it in smaller plexes.(every one else could use it in small plexes of the NPS's/WH's)
Allows the game to explore new ideas of fleet composition in smaller hull types.

Thoughts?

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 

Galatica789
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#928 - 2012-02-02 13:12:42 UTC
Give the Amarr more alliances to drop on us :3
Laerise
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#929 - 2012-02-02 16:35:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Laerise
Galatica789 wrote:
Give the Amarr more alliances to drop on us :3


Sorry, that's impossible. I'm enjoying taking apart your corpies way too much.

Death to the blob and "gfgf" !


Edit: Considering that I might have come across like an *** above my sincere best wishes to your lads!
Its nice to see that there are still TLF'ers out there with the balls to bring it. Big smile
Damassys Kadesh
Strix Ridens
Lock Range Enjoyers
#930 - 2012-02-03 07:50:49 UTC
How are people finding the addition of alliances in general?

Sourem Itharen > Congratulations Lady Kadesh, you have been selected by trial of fire and blood, under the watchful eyes of God, to represent Lord Khanid as his champion in the Imperial Succession trials -YC117

Rel'k Bloodlor
Guldan Age Stories
Federation Front Line
#931 - 2012-02-03 09:06:00 UTC
Damassys Kadesh wrote:
How are people finding the addition of alliances in general?


We know all have alliance chat to pretend to be the "serus spachip biznes" channel.
Did I say that we have a extra chat channel?
well that's about it, for now....

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 

The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#932 - 2012-02-03 16:18:37 UTC
Have any alliances joined fw? I mean, at all?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#933 - 2012-02-03 16:24:23 UTC
What about the idea of making our allied faction easilly discernable? We get the orange tag for the two factions we are at war with but we don't seem to get anything for our allied faction.

Can we agree this would be a good change?

It's pretty minor but it would make travelling to the other front for a change of scene easier and better.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#934 - 2012-02-03 17:43:26 UTC
Cearain wrote:
What about the idea of making our allied faction easilly discernable? We get the orange tag for the two factions we are at war with but we don't seem to get anything for our allied faction.

Can we agree this would be a good change?

It's pretty minor but it would make travelling to the other front for a change of scene easier and better.



I completely agree. If the Gallente and Minmatar are allies enough that both enemies appear the same to us, than we should be purple to each other as well.

This is a fantastic common sense solution.

+1

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#935 - 2012-02-03 17:51:43 UTC
The Snowman wrote:
Have any alliances joined fw? I mean, at all?


To my knowledge, none have at all. It was pretty much what I expected.

Several militia corps have formed their own alliances, for purposes of shared comms and intel, but that's about it.

I'm glad to see that there were no doomsday scenarios here as predicted, but we can also hardly call this a real "Faction Warfare improvement" if the whole scene more or less stays the same.

This has been the critical problem - CCP is progressing forward with a slate of FW changes that were discussed by the developers and the CSM, neither of whom have demonstrated that they have taken the least bit of time to ask the community what we want.

Its as if CCP feels like they did their due diligence, by talking with the CSM. But those of us in Faction Warfare know better than most that talking with the CSM does NOT constitute "listening to players" if the CSM isn't willing to defend our values and propositions. Instead, they proposed ridiculous ideas for the next set of Faction Warfare iterations that have no bearing on what players have been asking for, and exposed their own bias in the process.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#936 - 2012-02-03 20:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
...

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#937 - 2012-02-07 02:44:57 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#938 - 2012-02-07 04:30:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Thank you, Har! Yes, its time to get this dog and pony show public I guess. We've the hard part done already.

Stay tuned everyone, there will be a full Jita Park statement to come, along with a downloadable platform document for interested voters, and the simultaneous launch of my new blog.

Follow me on Twitter for real-time updates. @HansShotFirst

I just wanted my militia supporters and friends to hear it all first, those that weren't already on-board and in the loop.

It's game time!!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#939 - 2012-02-07 04:34:12 UTC
Allowing the Capsuleer alliances to participate in the Great War between the Empires is a great start. They were previously an untapped resource. Some of the largest alliances possess humongous reserves of Titans and capital ships, enough to glass the surface of thousands of worlds and obliterate entire sector fleets before any defense could be mustered. Unfortunately, Concord's Jovian regionwide cynosural jammers still operate in high security space, preventing us from significantly upsetting the balance of power and perhaps even wiping an Empire from the face of the galaxy.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#940 - 2012-02-07 04:37:06 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Allowing the Capsuleer alliances to participate in the Great War between the Empires is a great start. They were previously an untapped resource. Some of the largest alliances possess humongous reserves of Titans and capital ships, enough to glass the surface of thousands of worlds and obliterate entire sector fleets before any defense could be mustered. Unfortunately, Concord's Jovian regionwide cynosural jammers still operate in high security space, preventing us from significantly upsetting the balance of power and perhaps even wiping an Empire from the face of the galaxy.


That's a pretty tragic story.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary