Warfare & Tactics

Last night I was chasing down a WT. They stayed one step ahead of me so I gave up chase at the Vard gate in Amamake. I was just getting ready to warp to a station and log when a new WT appeared.

We engaged, but wanting to log and being in a friendly system I sent out a request for help in our faction chat. When nobody came immediately I let out my drones to quicken the process of downing the WT. Still it is a long process as I am relatively new and I have focused more on tank than gank. So I sent out the same request in local thinking maybe people were not paying attention in the faction chat.

This brought help....for the other guy. In a system with 10 people from my faction and 2 from theirs I was involved in a 2 on 1. I sent out another request in faction chat with location and opponents but no one arrived. They slowly picked me apart and all I could do was align with the nearest station and warp to it after I was popped.

My pod arrived at the station and there was a Loki from my faction just hanging out.

If caught in a situation where you are not fleeted up, what is the best way to get help from your faction?

And this is far from the first time this has happened.

One thing that used to happen to us in Gall Milita i noticed was the enemies had a booster in our militia and other threads have poped up about milita-mates assisting an enemy milita member(s)

may havebeen the case or nobody really cared

Had much the same experience myself 3 years ago when starting FW. Was rather surprised to find that the average militia member passing by will not get involved in a fight unless you're clearly winning it.

Here's 3 rules that may help you in future :

1) Never put blue intel into the Minmatar militia channel unless you want to attract Amarr militia "interest";

2) Never assume that anyone in the Minmatar militia is going to help you in a fight. Most FW people are only going to help their own corp/alliance;

3) Never respond to random people in militia chat asking for help unless you know them/their corp. They are most likely Amarr militia alts or worthless farmers.


I have nothing against the Minnie militia, just in case anyone thinks I'm having a pop. It was exactly the same in the Amarr militia at the same time but I've only ever been in Minnie militia so I'm commenting on them.

Oh and I didn't see any change when I had an alt in FW a couple of months ago.....

tl;dr expect nothing from militia channels and you won't be disappointed

This. Agony Unleashed (or someone close to them) has a booster Loki in the Minmatar milita.


Also this.

People usually will come to your aid if asked... provided that they know you personally, are are relatively close by, and/or in a fleet.
But do understand that even all that is not a guarantee. Sometimes the majority of a gang/fleet might be about to perform a delicate maneuver and/or be flying expensive ships... and the the risk of coming to your aid when you should not have been wandering off may be too great.

This happened about a week or so ago to one of the fleets I was in.
The majority of the fleet was in a system, in heavy ships, trying to outmaneuver some enemies around a POS... and some guy was 2 systems away, also in a heavy ship, doing god knows what. He calls on comms that he has point on someone... then he says he is now pointed... then says he need backup ASAP. Meanwhile, we're getting intel that there are interceptors/fast tackle buzzing around between us and him and us and our reshipping stations.
We made the conscious decision to not help him... figuring that by the time we podded over, reshipped, and got there he'd be dead... or that many of us would be picked apart if we tried to gun for him in our heavy ships.
Needless to say, the guy in question was mad. Very, very, very mad. But he should have, at the very least, made sure that there was viable backup nearby before he engaged. Or have someone "get eyes" so he wouldn't get tackled.

You can't introduce mechanics to "force" people to "play nice." People can and WILL find a way around it or use it to their advantage.

edit: case and point. Certain people are using an alternate character in their enemy's militia to provide bonuses and support (as described above). There is also a mechanic that penalizes a person if they shoot people in their own militia (so people "play nice"). And you cannot declare war against an NPC corp (which the booster alt is in).
Thus... the people will continue to have bonuses and "eyes" in systems "hostile" to them and there is nothing their enemies can do unless they are prepared to accept certain consequences.
How do you prevent this from happening?


You also can't "introduce" people to PvP in any "gentile way" that will appeal to everyone. It's a fairly violent affair and requires that you possess a certain "mentality"... one where you see ships as tool and thus expendable.
That's why many people recommend newbie PvPers to get cheapo "tackle" frigs. Not only are they immensely useful despite their narrow role, but they also introduce a newbie to the concept of "losing a ship" and having support/working with others.


And how do you propose to alter the state of mind of people? Because they are the barriers. Not the game mechanics. If you want to be part of a team of players, you have to appeal to the people... either by having great "skills," potential, or just being personable.

Playing casually has nothing to do with this. The problem is that you expect them to blindly help you, without even knowing you.

You need to get in touch with other pilots, gain their trust and get invited into the serious intel channels. These actually exist in all the militias and if you post there about your fight, you get a much better response than from the public milita channel.


It's a sandbox MMO and a very social one in aspects like these. You can't compare factions/groups in EVE with predefined factions in other MMOs.

You're being overly idealistic. Egos will always play a major factor in anything you do and will either make or break people cooperating with each other.

The old alliance Band of Brothers was more or less destroyed when a single director become disgruntled, sided with "the enemy," and disbanded the alliance. Thousands of players lost their homes and assets in 0.0 space because of this.
The "original" Goonswarm was also disbanded by their own CEO... for "giggles" near as I can tell. They lost a lot of territory and A LOT of assets (which the CEO stole and sold back to everyone at exorbitant prices).

Even the militias themselves have fallen into inter-militia infighting due to "falling outs" with other, supposedly "friendly" militia corporations.

These things happen. And I wouldn't change it for the world as it keeps things interesting.


Indeed. Henceforth... EVE shall be known as a "beach"... where the players are the winds and the waves.

Idealism spotted!

If your ships cost ISK, and you lose them, and FW is not a way to gain ISK, you must convert PLEX into ISK to gain it in order to replace your lost ships. This is pragmatism.

At least half of the toons logged in to Rens are trading alts people run while alt-tabbed out at their daily grind, to make ISK for whatever purpose they have in game for mountains of ISK. The remainder are made up of, variously, trolls, scammers, elite undock PVP champions (ahem), people fitting ships, buying modules or selling loot. Don't confuse the numbers of toons in the system with hisec lifers too scared to go to nullsec or lowsec.

My prognosis of your problem is you want to join a militia and have everyone railroaded into playing a team game. That is for WoW and other theme parks. EVE, as a true sandbox, allows people to put sand down the back of each others swim trunks, build sand castles, and fling mud pies at each other.

Going from a militia scrub to someone who people invite on fleets takes time, effort, and social skills. Having aspergers or a social disease will prevent this from happening. Thus, you need to work on your social skills in order to get into FW PVP.

Calling for help in local was the right decision imo - with only one other hostile and many friendlies in system the odds were in your favor.
* Try to be concise, polite and don't make it sound as if you are completely in over your head.
* Make a conservative risk assessment - the last thing you want to happen is to send helpful friendlies to a pointless death.
* Don't call for help if chances are that you will die before any help can realistically arrive. Don't call for help if you don't understand relevant game mechanics (e.g. inability to warp on a gate grid).

Calling for help in militia chat was a mistake in my opinion. It's something that you might consider doing before losing out on the most epic kill of the century due to the lack of backup but it will probably do you more harm than good.
Most intel channels have a strict "never report blue intel" rule for the same reason.

The correct way to call for help.
"Help! I'm on the gate and pointed. Come here now!"
"Help!" - Let's everybody know it's an emergency.
"I'm" - Let's everybody know exactly who is in trouble so they can warp to you.
"gate" - Let's everybody know that you are on one of the many gates in system and not at a belt.
"pointed" - Let's everybody know the full tactical situation
"Come here" - A clear call to action
"now!" - in a timely manner.